Thread: Is psychokenisis learnable?

Originally Posted by KingYetiTeffa

So....oh I'm annoyed now. I don't believe how gullible some of you people are. And how quick you are to believe something just because you [I]want[I] it to be true. There's no evidence for psychokenisis, or whatever you want to call it, and it has been almost completely disregarded in the world of science, and facts. This alone should be enough to convince people that it's a load of....well, you already know what I think.

And someone said they could present a scientific way that this can be achieved? Then please...go ahead. If you think there's any way that nothing more than thoughts can move stuff, I very much look forward to seeing this evidence of yours.

Don't fall for those youtube videos. Be smart. If psychokenisis was documented on video, I don't think youtube would be the way to break it to the world.

And, it's not wise to call people closed minded because they don't accept something that has never, and probably will never be proved in any regard, simply because you're willing to jump at any idea that science doesn't agree with.

There's not enough evidence either way to prove or to disprove it.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Everyone is trying to prove something here, and yet no one has any evidence either way lol

I don't care about the evidence, i believe it is possible.

I believe that our brains are way too unknown to us, for us to say one way or another that its possible or not possible.

I believe it is possible not because i have proof it is, but because belief is a very strong force. If it is possible to do this type of stuff. We are never going to be able to do it, if we don't believe we can.(plus does it really hurt to believe in it, as long as you don't let it over take your life ? )

Also, if people could really do this stuff, i think there would be a bit more media coverage on it. Because this would be big news

Originally Posted by TheMoon

There's not enough evidence either way to prove or to disprove it.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

Everyone is trying to prove something here, and yet no one has any evidence either way lol

I don't care about the evidence, i believe it is possible.

I believe that our brains are way too unknown to us, for us to say one way or another that its possible or not possible.

I believe it is possible not because i have proof it is, but because belief is a very strong force. If it is possible to do this type of stuff. We are never going to be able to do it, if we don't believe we can.(plus does it really hurt to believe in it, as long as you don't let it over take your life ? )

Also, if people could really do this stuff, i think there would be a bit more media coverage on it. Because this would be big news

There is another way of looking at all of this. It's not my idea, I think I read the idea on another Lucidity forum a few years ago.

If psychic powers exist, then why do we not see it in the animal kingdom?
After all, we have proven animals to use some very peculiar ways of interacting with the world and communicating with those around them.

Sonar is a prime example. Humans do not have a natural sonar ability, but many animals do.

The point is, Evolution is an arms race, the creature with the most effective abilities has the advantage and goes on to breed. So this is why we see such diverse skills, bodies and sensory interactions in the natural world.

If psychic ability were to exist then we would almost certainly see natural selection/evolution take advantage of this in at least one species on our planet.


I mean, nature has taken advantage of: Electricity, the earths magnetic field, Sonar, infra red, ultra violet etc. etc.
In fact electricity and sonar were being used by animals many many years before humans even knew they existed!

And the argument is not "It does exist in nature, we just dont know where to look" or "We wouldn't recognise it"
Because we WOULD have seen this, there have been intense studies into the animal kingdom, this is why we know about things like Bats using Sonar etc.
And we WOULD recognise a psychic animal... the snake that can kill it's prey just by looking at it, the prey that could escape an approaching predator before it was visible... WE DONT SEE THESE THINGS IN NATURE.

Why?

I'm not against the idea of psychic abilities. I would love for them to be genuine. But the lack of any animal in the natural world using the ability, means one of three things:
either,
1) there is no such ability to take advantage of.
2)psychic powers are so weak or uncertain that they offer no advantage.
3)Psychic powers have for some reason not been stumbled across by the evolutionary process, in which case, nobody would have such abilities (but they potentialy could be possible on another planet)

All 3 answers would pretty much lead you to conclude that psychic powers are either non existant, impossible due to our biological heritage, or so weak and unpredictable that they are essentially worthless.

This is a real shame, because i'd love to be able to move things with my mind or read thoughts. However, If a Zebra cant "read the mind" of an approaching predator when it is a life or death situation, me wanting to make the pencil fall of the desk with my mind seems really tame in comparison.
So i'll just accept that, on this planet at least, it is highly unlikely that psychic powers exist.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

And the argument is not "It does exist in nature, we just dont know where to look" or "We wouldn't recognise it"
Because we WOULD have seen this, there have been intense studies into the animal kingdom, this is why we know about things like Bats using Sonar etc.
And we WOULD recognise a psychic animal... the snake that can kill it's prey just by looking at it, the prey that could escape an approaching predator before it was visible... WE DONT SEE THESE THINGS IN NATURE.

You're saying that as if the whole world has been explained by now, which is not true. The point is:

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

In fact electricity and sonar were being used by animals many many years before humans even knew they existed!

And, only as a small example, a few weeks ago a new species of Ants has been found in the rainforests which is completely of of normal ants: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0915174538.htm

You think we know nearly everything about nature? Man you're far off. All we know is a small part the rest is unknown or just speculated

Originally Posted by ShadowmanX

You're saying that as if the whole world has been explained by now, which is not true. The point is:



And, only as a small example, a few weeks ago a new species of Ants has been found in the rainforests which is completely of of normal ants: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0915174538.htm

You think we know nearly everything about nature? Man you're far off. All we know is a small part the rest is unknown or just speculated

Hmmm,
Seems like grasping at straws here.

My point is that there is not a single recorded or observed species that shows any behaviour that would suggest psychic abilities.
Considering the VAST sums of money and fame that such a discovery would make, and the huge amount of scientists studying animal behaviour over the past hundreds of years. Doesn't that strike you as a little odd that not a single case has been observed?

Also, why would nature come up with sonar in Bats? which is a VERY complex process, when the same effect could be achieved via psychic ability?
Also why would language evolve in humans? if there was the easier option of just sharing our thoughts?
If such abilites were available, why don't we have them?
Why do we have hands? when we could be moving things around with our minds?

Nature is very very frugal. She dosn't tend to waste engery or resources when a simpler alternative is available.


Sure the human race dosn't know EVERYTHING about nature, obviously not.
But we do have a pretty good understanding about how natural selection works, how evolution works, we also have hundred of years of recorded observations of many millions of species.
We also have prizes, fame and huge wads of cash, that would be lavished all over anyone who could prove and demonstrate psychic ability.
Think of the commercial value for such a discovery, the military value.
Scientists in this world arnt "closed minded", they are practical, if there was a way to prove such a thing then no doubt there would be a Faraday or Benjamin Franklin of psychic abilites already. We'd have something, some kind of basic recognition in the world of science.

But here is a question i want people who belive in these things to answer:

If astral travel is possible, why do we have physical eyes?

If telepathy is possible, why do we have language?

If Telekenisis is possible, why do we have hands?

If there are inate psychic powers in humans or any other animal, why then did evolution bother coming up with physical means to do EXACTLY the same job? Does astral travel burn more calories than walking somewhere?

I'm not being skeptical or closed minded, I just want to know how these sorts of simple problems with the idea of telepathy can be argued agains with logical explanations.

I would so love to believe, but i refuse to believe something that my intelligence and observations contradict.

If anyone has convincing evidence, or decent arguments to the points i've made, i would be very very happy to hear them. I'd like to be proven wrong, i really would!