Thread: Discouraged...

Hey,
I think it's very important to stay optimistic when trying to induce lucid dreams.
You have already had five LDs which i think should help in showing you that it can actually be achieved, and maybe once you have experienced a longer LD, this will provide you with all the encouragement you need.
You say that all of these LDs lasted no more than 30 seconds, but did you try any methods for maintaining your lucidity and stabilizing yourself into the dream, for example rubbing your hands together?
Also, if you're finding difficulty in becoming lucid with DILDs, have you tried or had luck with any other methods; WILDs for example?

In my opinion, the best thing you can do to increase the frequency of your lucid dreams, is wake up in the middle of the night and then go back to bed.

I don't know if you're doing this already, but waking up for 10-20 minutes after 5-6 hours sleep will help a ton.

Like Chris18t suggested, try a couple different techniques. I think the people who have the most success have tried many different things, and fine tuned a method that works well for them.

Hi guys

Yeah, I have tried these things. At LaBerge's workshop, we learned about rubbing our hands together. I remembered to do this in my last three dreams, but I woke up anyway.

I have tried waking up, going activity, and giong back to bed, which I continue to do once a week. I also have tried to induce WILDS and DILDS. As a matter of fact, none of the LD's happened under any of these cirucmstances--in fact, as I said, 4 of them happened after I said, "Screw it, I give up!" That's why I feel a bit discouraged!

I will keep trying! Since three of them happened this year, I guess that's a good start--when I first learned of LDs two years ago, I had never had one before (even as a kid) so I have gone from nothing to three LDs this year. It's just been one of the hardest things I have done! That's why I was wondering if other peopole had such slow starts like this, and such short LDs.

I'll try to keep optimistic and positive! I am enjoying the process! Thanks for the encouragment.

Originally Posted by Angry New Ager

This is my first post. I just found this website a few days ago.

I have been trying to incubate LD for 2 years now. I had my first LD in 2005, after an episode with Ecstasy in Bangkok. My second came last year, in London, after walking the Camino de Santiago for 2 weeks in SPain, doing Reality Checks constantly.

This year, I have had 3, one in Hawaii during Stephen LaBerge's "Dreaming in Paradise" workshop.

I had my fourth in September and my fifth two weeks ago. However, I feel just a little discouraged. All the above dreams lasted less than 30 seconds... I woke up from each one rather quickly. Ironically, they seem to come when I say, "Fuck it, I quit!" Then BAM , I get one.

I am doing RC's constantly during the day, almost obsessively.. and yet I seem to be making such slow progress. I read the postings here on this forum, and see that many others are so much more successful than me. I guess some of us are born with more LD talent than others? Like musical or artistic talent...but I would be interested to hear from others who have had slow starts, like me, but who have developed a very proficient LD skill. I keep reading that LD takes time and patience and persistence, and I get the feeling that it's happening slowly for me, and I think I would be encouraged by hearing from others like me. Thanks.

Wow! From reading that you attending Dr. Laberge's workshop, I'd have to guess that you are a pretty dedicated LD'er. Keep it up and once again

to Dreamviews.

I welcome you.

You have arrived at DreamViews unlike another i know.

I've been trying for a while too... But at least you have made progress

to Dreamviews!

I appreciate the encouragement! Actually, I just saw the tutorial for beginners, regarding an "optimistic attitude". So, I am trying to re-adjust my thinking, keep it playful, open-minded... see what happens...

Have you tried FILD (Finger Induced Lucid Dreaming)? There is a tutorial here.

That is a strange technique that some people are really good at. For me, it worked once, then never again, and I've heard other people describe that too. You might give it a try.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

In my opinion, the best thing you can do to increase the frequency of your lucid dreams, is wake up in the middle of the night and then go back to bed.

I don't know if you're doing this already, but waking up for 10-20 minutes after 5-6 hours sleep will help a ton.

Sometimes it can be hard to get back to sleep from this, so if you find 10-20 minutes keeps you awake, and you cannot get back to sleep - 5 minutes should be sufficient.

Alternatively, if you have the time, get up after about 6 hours sleep, go make some tea, read a paper or something, stay awake for a couple of hours, then if you can go for a nap, you will find almost all the sleep in this nap will be light REM sleep, very good for inducing lucid dreams.

Originally Posted by Angry New Ager

Hi guys

Yeah, I have tried these things. At LaBerge's workshop, we learned about rubbing our hands together. I remembered to do this in my last three dreams, but I woke up anyway.

I'll try to keep optimistic and positive! I am enjoying the process! Thanks for the encouragment.

Rubbing hands is only one way, and a rather poor way in my experience of prolonging lucid dreams. Of course everyone is different, and there will be a host of ways to increase the longevity of dreams. A few techniques I like are just walking around following the dream, smelling the flowers, talking to random DCs, feeling the air on my face, the smell of the air, the beautiful colours, really helps to steady the dream and get over the anxiety and panic so often apparent for new lucid dreamers.

You need to try get out of the mind set of getting lucid and automatically thinking it is going to end. What you need to get into the habit of doing is when you are lucid, pick up from where the dream was when you because lucid and follow it for a bit, slowing down, and absorbing the atmosphere. Then when the dream is steady you can go wild and change a few things, then when you notice it is fading slightly, again, slow down and try a number of the things I said above.

Lucid dreams wont last forever, but you can prolong them with practise it is important you get over the anxiety of them ending prematurely, get over the stress of wanting one so bad as this could have a detrimental affect on dreams, and my most important prerequisite to any new lucid dreamer is get plenty of regular sleep - having a regular sleep pattern where you are getting plenty of sleep is imperative! With this, you have longer, lighter REM sleep, and can induce lucid dreams better.

If you want some more advise happy to discuss with you.

Adam.

Originally Posted by Angry New Ager

I am doing RC's constantly during the day, almost obsessively.. and yet I seem to be making such slow progress.

Are you sure you are doing your RC's correctly? You write "obsessively" ... that sounds to my ear lot like "mindlessly", which is the very wrong way to perform them. Either there's something wrong with the way you practice them or RC's are not the way for you.

From personal experience, after a month of not so intense practicing reality checks I ended up doing one in a dream, thus getting my first LD. Since then I don't practice them at all and still good number of my LD's (23 since I started a year ago) are RC triggered.

-Tl

just keep on keepin on...youll get there. I have had ver slow progress..maybe two a month. Do you keep a dream journal.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Have you tried FILD (Finger Induced Lucid Dreaming)? There is a tutorial here.

That is a strange technique that some people are really good at. For me, it worked once, then never again, and I've heard other people describe that too. You might give it a try.

I tried it a few nights ago, for the first time. I think I fell asleep. I will keep trying it. I can't really seem to picture in my mind what to do, even though I've read the tutorial. I think you just move two fingers up and down, as if you were tapping two different keys of a piano? Is that right?

Originally Posted by Thylacoleo

Are you sure you are doing your RC's correctly? You write "obsessively" ... that sounds to my ear lot like "mindlessly", which is the very wrong way to perform them. Either there's something wrong with the way you practice them or RC's are not the way for you.

From personal experience, after a month of not so intense practicing reality checks I ended up doing one in a dream, thus getting my first LD. Since then I don't practice them at all and still good number of my LD's (23 since I started a year ago) are RC triggered.

-Tl

I borrow the word "obsessively" from Stephen LaBerge, who used it during his workshop. He advised us to do RCs persistenly, "almost obsessively". If that translates as "mindlessly", well, obviously it's working for him!

Correctly? Not sure, maybe you can help? The first time I started doing reality checks was while crossing the Camino de Santiago. I would stop several times a day to do RC. AS I had read in a book, I asked, "Is this a dream?" Then I would jump up and down on the ground to test the effects of gravity. After two weeks, I found myself walking through Scotland in a dream, on the way to Loch Ness. The colours seemed weird, so I questioned, "Am I dreaming?" I jumped up and to my surprise, I remained floating in the air. I tried to fly , to spin, but I couldn't move. I just remained there floating, unable to move, until I woke up.

LaBerge recommended using printed materials to do RCs, to try and read something in your dream. I started combining my RCs with an attempt to read something with printed matter on it. Actually, my last LD two weeks ago occurred this way--seeing words on a page zip around as I tried to read them.

Currently, I wear a digital watch that beeps every hour. WHen I hear this, I look at the numbers on the watch, look away, and look back again. After I make sure that I am not dreaming, I stare at the numbers on the watch, to see if I can make the numbers change. If this fails, I know I am not dreaming. I monitor how I feel, how my body feels, what is running through my head...asking myself, "If this were a dream, what would it mean?"

I also do RCs aruond common dreamsigns that come up in my dreams, e.g. black men, who are not very common in Singapore but seem to come up in my dreams regularly. I remember to do an RC around this dreamsign almost without fail now--yet since I started doing this, these dreamsigns don't seem to appear any more. It's frustrating!

Mindless? Wrong? Correct? Not sure. Maybe you can elaborate? Or better yet, share with me how you conduct your own RCs? I would love to hear about it! Thanks for your comments!

Originally Posted by dreamscaper22

just keep on keepin on...youll get there. I have had ver slow progress..maybe two a month. Do you keep a dream journal.

Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, I keep a dream journal. I think I have very high dream recall (sometimes as much as 6 dreams in one night). To date, I have had 5 short LDs, in about 1 1/2 years of trying. However, I have not been very consistent over this period, which may be part of the problem. In fact, I have gotten discouraged and stopped RCs at times...and this seems to be the time when I have an LD!

Originally Posted by Angry New Ager

Mindless? Wrong? Correct? Not sure. Maybe you can elaborate? Or better yet, share with me how you conduct your own RCs? I would love to hear about it! Thanks for your comments!

I've written rather long text about ways I become lucid, but then realized it might not be that interesting for you. So, to the point:

I use the hand RC, few times a day. I look at my hand for few seconds while trying to temporarily focus my attention. In dream my hand is usually blury or has too many fingers.

Sometimes, when I remember to do it, I look at some text and think about whether it makes sense and then look again whether it changes.

And that's all I do.

-Tl

Originally Posted by Angry New Ager

I tried it a few nights ago, for the first time. I think I fell asleep. I will keep trying it. I can't really seem to picture in my mind what to do, even though I've read the tutorial. I think you just move two fingers up and down, as if you were tapping two different keys of a piano? Is that right?

Yes, but you barely have to move them at all.

I completely understand! I tried so hard and had some results...but grew discouraged and tired. Its not that I don't believe in the LD state..I do, its just that I think I was trying to hard. So...after about six months off...Im going to visit this website again a bit and try again. But Im not going to try so hard. I think I was trying too hard. Is a scientific phenomenon that has been proven but I believe a latent skill that must be developed. I think I am also going to try to look into remote viewing.

Originally Posted by Thylacoleo

I've written rather long text about ways I become lucid, but then realized it might not be that interesting for you.


-Tl

Actually, I would find it very interesting! I will have a look at your postings and get back to you on it. Thanks for the input!!!

OK, here you go:

How I become lucid

My RC of choice is looking at my hand. I chose this RC because it is quite inconspicuous, so you can perform it at any time. Also, you always have your hand with you. In the beginning I also tried carrying a business card with big red "LD" written on the other side. This wasn't really successful with me. During the first week of my trying to induce LD I performed my RC's quite often - in the order of tens a day. Eventually, all of sudden, I looked at my hand in my dream and this induced my first DILD. The hand RC has its downsides, though -- some people report, that their hand looks normal in the dream, or that the RC does not trigger lucidity. I experienced this once or twice - I looked at my hand but somehow failed to become lucid. BTW, I have one more idea about the hand RC: I personally believe, that it works because one expects it to work. When I first suceeded with this RC, I had to look three times before my hand started to look recognizably "dreamy". I believe it only happened because I conditioned myself to expect it.

Today, I do the hand RC occasionally, few times a day. I try do it whenever I think something is even slightly out of ordinary (but I keep forgetting). But in my lucid dreams the hand RC is number one way of verifying my state. I do it automatically wheneve I am at doubt (which is unfortunately not that often, but that's a different story). Now that I think about it, I want to say that I only rarely become lucid because I do habitual hand RC in my dream. It's way more common that I notice something odd and then do RC and become lucid. In this light it really seems to be more important to do RC whenever you notice something strange than to do them every once in a while.

Now the "text" RC: Surprisingly for me, my second LD (about two months later), was triggered by my noticing some text changing between views. In contrast to hand RC I do believe that the visual apparatus of brain really has trouble keeping text stable in dreams. Most usually it is immediately recognizable as nonsensical. If it doesn't immediately look funny, it never (for me, that is) remains unchanged between views. This is extremely useful feature, because in your everyday urban life you can see myriads of texts around you and every reading them and realizing they are (or are not) sensible is a reality check. How effective this is depends on how often you see some text in your dream. This RC worked only once for me.

Another way I become lucid is a dream sign: frustration. I have some errand in a dream and whatever I do I can't accomplish it. This escalates my frustration to the point I realize I am dreaming (I think something like "There's no need to get excited, it's just a dream"). If you often have this kind of dream, this might be useful -- I don't, so it worked for me about three times I think.

Then there's the usual noticing something odd. I really don't know how to train for this, so this happens at random -- but is the second most common lucidity trigger for me.

And then, in the largest proportion of my LD's I become lucid for unknown reason - either I don't remember what made me lucid, or I somehow realize I am dreaming without any aid.

That's very interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience! I enjoy hearing about what other people are trying! I think I am on the right track...I just realized something.. I have only been trying to induce LD's since last year--and only sporadically, never consist enty--and I've already had 5 short ones! So I think I will just keep going and see what happens..

Regarding the hands.. I had read that looking at your hands is also a good way to stabilize a dream, if you feel like waking up. In Bangkok, I suddenly achieved lucidity for the first time, sleeping in a hotel, and my excitment almost caused me to wake up! I remembered to look at my hands (which I had been practicing as RCs, as you said) and this seemed to work. I then tried to stretch my arms far like Mr. Fantastic (I had just seen "The Fantastic Four") and too my delight, I was able to stretch my body this way! It was an exciting first LD!