Thread: Does being lucid stop you from resting.

Actually, I just watched a 7 minutes documentary about sleep/dreams/lucid dreams and it said that the brain was even more active during our sleep than during the day, well, during the REM sleep at least. It said that at that moment, the brain was more active than ever except for the logic part of the brain... So I don't think being lucid makes it so more active...

Hey guys; we'd better respect the Dream Pirate...
That gives me an idea!

Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

Hey guys; we'd better respect the Dream Pirate...
That gives me an idea!

What's your idea?

Well me, it's just that the way the seal talked to me about him in my first lucid dream, is that he was the king of dreams and lucid dreams so I had the feeling he is my dream guide and when I become good in lucid dreams I will go find his boat and ask to meet him and give him a present and then he will maybe be my dream guide... I hope

Originally Posted by Yume.no.ato

I know that personally after a night of Lucid Dreaming I -always- feel more tired.

I dunno about this, as I don't have that much LD experience to draw on (maybe 8 to date), but I can sure say that TRYING to have an LD has produced many, many sleepless hours, as any type of visualizing tends to wake me up very thoroughly. For instance, when I'm awake during the night and picture myself becoming lucid in a dream, I'm often up for hours or for the rest of the night.

(I'm actually on the verge of giving up trying to have LDs because of it, alas. I feel like I'm losing my mind from lack of sleep.)

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Imagine, someone became so good at lucid dreaming that he/she would be lucid through his/her entire sleep,

I understand that some buddhist practices which include lucid dreaming aim for awareness during all phases of sleep....that does sound paradoxical

For me lucid dreaming has made me sleep more. Usually I'll wake up a lot, but in a lucid dream I often spend more asleep because I am enjoying being asleep.

Originally Posted by lunar6

I understand that some buddhist practices which include lucid dreaming aim for awareness during all phases of sleep....that does sound paradoxical

This is quite true; it's part of Tibetan Buddhism, and there are books about it, at least a couple. I have one, but haven't started it yet. If you are able to retain lucidity when a dream ends and be lucid in the non-dream space, that is supposed to be akin to a very deep level of meditation.

(That is on my list of things to do, right at the bottom of it, since it probably takes some doing to approach it.)

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

What's your idea?

Well me, it's just that the way the seal talked to me about him in my first lucid dream, is that he was the king of dreams and lucid dreams so I had the feeling he is my dream guide and when I become good in lucid dreams I will go find his boat and ask to meet him and give him a present and then he will maybe be my dream guide... I hope

I'd like to manifest the pirate and see if I can't ask him what the person was doing that was so disrespectful, not to question the Pirate's legitimacy; but just to see what kind of answer I get.

I of course will have to get lucid first lol >.<

Originally Posted by LWA

This is quite true; it's part of Tibetan Buddhism, and there are books about it, at least a couple. I have one, but haven't started it yet. If you are able to retain lucidity when a dream ends and be lucid in the non-dream space, that is supposed to be akin to a very deep level of meditation.

(That is on my list of things to do, right at the bottom of it, since it probably takes some doing to approach it.)

Sounds close to my idea; which was waking myself into a Deep Trance and I've never studied Tibetan Buddhism; perhaps I should

OH!-Stephen Colbert is on.
BRB! lol

Originally Posted by LWA

This is quite true; it's part of Tibetan Buddhism, and there are books about it, at least a couple. I have one, but haven't started it yet. If you are able to retain lucidity when a dream ends and be lucid in the non-dream space, that is supposed to be akin to a very deep level of meditation.

(That is on my list of things to do, right at the bottom of it, since it probably takes some doing to approach it.)

That sounds kinda boring... It's neat, but why would you want to be conscious through the whole night?

A few points. first of all babies spend what 50 to 75 % of their time in REM? so obviously (?) REM is supportive of growing rapidly. i don't think REM can be bad for you.

secondly i believe we are having levels of consciousness at many levels simultaneously. it's just that most people aren't conscious of their levels.

so in tibetan dream yoga i believe... or other forms of awareness practice... you learn to tap into what is already happening. you are already dreaming, already having multiple states of awarenesses.

hey everyone: YOU ARE GENIUSES! that's right. LD is teaching you to reclaim this and to function with optimal capacity! to wake up from your slumber and become superhuman.

you can do it...!!! i can do it... !!! (well, i'm trying, anyway.)

wish me luck, this is the direction i want to head.

i think the tiredness comes from waking up, and/or not getting back to sleep, the stresses of the friction of our emotions when we don't get it right, let go of potential ld's, not remembering dreams, etc... well, again, i know that's the part where i think i get tired or discouraged.

true LD nourishes my soul because i know i am coming home to my deeper/deepest levels of being.

Originally Posted by beachgirl

A few points. first of all babies spend what 50 to 75 % of their time in REM? so obviously (?) REM is supportive of growing rapidly. i don't think REM can be bad for you.

secondly i believe we are having levels of consciousness at many levels simultaneously. it's just that most people aren't conscious of their levels.

so in tibetan dream yoga i believe... or other forms of awareness practice... you learn to tap into what is already happening. you are already dreaming, already having multiple states of awarenesses.

hey everyone: YOU ARE GENIUSES! that's right. LD is teaching you to reclaim this and to function with optimal capacity! to wake up from your slumber and become superhuman.

you can do it...!!! i can do it... !!! (well, i'm trying, anyway.)

wish me luck, this is the direction i want to head.

i think the tiredness comes from waking up, and/or not getting back to sleep, the stresses of the friction of our emotions when we don't get it right, let go of potential ld's, not remembering dreams, etc... well, again, i know that's the part where i think i get tired or discouraged.

true LD nourishes my soul because i know i am coming home to my deeper/deepest levels of being.

I hope everyone see's your post. It is so important for us to become aware of what we are capable of. Although I have not attained lucidity yet; I have experienced many other spiritual highs. Trance comes innately to me for some reason; I usually have full fledged conversations while talking to others, and maintaining full attentiveness: If those of you reading this cannot do that; then you must believe that we are aware on multiple levels... that or I'm just special, which I don't think is true. Least not in that way.

I never experience anything spiritual.. I don't meditate or anything. I do LD all the time and I think I may have shared a dream once or twice now... unless it was just a coincidence.

Originally Posted by Loaf

I never experience anything spiritual.. I don't meditate or anything. I do LD all the time and I think I may have shared a dream once or twice now... unless it was just a coincidence.

It wasn't a coincidence Loaf... it was a shared dream, and I'm gonna keep telling you that to keep you believing it. From what I've read, believing is a lot of where your power comes from.

Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

I'd like to manifest the pirate and see if I can't ask him what the person was doing that was so disrespectful, not to question the Pirate's legitimacy; but just to see what kind of answer I get.

I know what my brother did that was disrespectful. Actually, it is something that most of us as lucid dreamers experience and I guess its not very fun for us... So ask him and then we can compare. (by the way, I've always picture Dream Pirate as a fat beared man with awesome pirate clothes but I try very much not to picture him at all so my asumptions don't change who he really is...


And about the tibetian dream yoga which buddhists practice is pretty much like beachgirl said. I've read it was about being aware at all time, while we live and when we sleep, when dream or when we are dead because Buddhists believe that death is a bit like dreams. Being aware at all time, especially being able to lucid dream most of the time allows you, when you are dead to be aware that everything you see is an illusion, a bit like a dream and then that way you can decide where you want to be reborn. This is the ulitmate goal of lucid dreaming for Buddhists I guess, but also the fact thet they are in an lucid level of awareness at all time and that is awesome.

I personally try to be aware most of the times. It is hard... and I find meditation boring so it makes it harder I guess...

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

I know what my brother did that was disrespectful. Actually, it is something that most of us as lucid dreamers experience and I guess its not very fun for us... So ask him and then we can compare. (by the way, I've always picture Dream Pirate as a fat beared man with awesome pirate clothes but I try very much not to picture him at all so my asumptions don't change who he really is...


And about the tibetian dream yoga which buddhists practice is pretty much like beachgirl said. I've read it was about being aware at all time, while we live and when we sleep, when dream or when we are dead because Buddhists believe that death is a bit like dreams. Being aware at all time, especially being able to lucid dream most of the time allows you, when you are dead to be aware that everything you see is an illusion, a bit like a dream and then that way you can decide where you want to be reborn. This is the ulitmate goal of lucid dreaming for Buddhists I guess, but also the fact thet they are in an lucid level of awareness at all time and that is awesome.

I personally try to be aware most of the times. It is hard... and I find meditation boring so it makes it harder I guess...

I will make sure to find out from the Dream Pirate, and I'll let you know how similar he looks to your description.
I have also tried to hold awareness's, it isn't all that easy, whoever said we aren't perfect was spot on lol.
I do actually enjoy meditation, but like I said it comes to me naturally, I was meditating as a child believe it or not.

I am really interested in this Tibetan Dream Yoga... I'll have to look it up.
Sounds like it would be right up my alley of things I like to study.

Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

I will make sure to find out from the Dream Pirate, and I'll let you know how similar he looks to your description.
I have also tried to hold awareness's, it isn't all that easy, whoever said we aren't perfect was spot on lol.
I do actually enjoy meditation, but like I said it comes to me naturally, I was meditating as a child believe it or not.

I am really interested in this Tibetan Dream Yoga... I'll have to look it up.
Sounds like it would be right up my alley of things I like to study.

sounds good

And actually, I do try meditation too, just not in my free time. I do it during school masses or when class becomes VERY boring, lol! I like meditating in does times

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

sounds good

And actually, I do try meditation too, just not in my free time. I do it during school masses or when class becomes VERY boring, lol! I like meditating in does times

Ahh, I do enjoy meditating at those times too ^_^
It is really nice to have a place to go to when I need quiet.

I always end up under a giant willow tree, sitting in a throne that is built right into the trunk.

The tree is my designated elder in my meditations.

As usual, I haven't gone through all the posts, but I just wanted to say that even during lucid dreaming, your brain is barely more awake than before. It's only that SOME logic comes into use. I don't think it's possible to use all of your logic abilities in a dream, or any other part of the brain not already being used. So, in the unlikely case that someone is that good, they will still sleep well.

Also, some studies think that dreaming is a kind of sorting process for unimportant memories from the day. In this case, your mind probably isn't even resting much then to begin with, so being aware, if anything, is more insult to injury (albeit an injury that makes no difference anyways).

Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

I am wondering if any of you have experimented with waking yourself INTO a Deep Trance state, from a dream... just randomly thought of it.

If you did that then went back into your dream, you could get some realllly relaxing sleep.

Lunar 6:

I understand that some buddhist practices which include lucid dreaming aim for awareness during all phases of sleep....that does sound paradoxical

This is basically what it is. When a lucid dream ends, stay lucid, without waking up. Before a lucid dream begins, stay lucid. When you awake in the morning, stay lucid. During the day, stay lucid. Before you go to bed, stay lucid.
Your mind and body rests during sleep. The mind rests by going into deeper brainwaves. Delta brainwaves are the deepest and most restful when all the growth hormones are released into your body. You know that feeling of going into delta, it is like being recharged. Some people believe that this is when your mind returns to the source to be recharged. It definately feels like a drop merging into the ocean. Then comes the return where the drop emerges from the ocean and you enter REM. Some people believe that this is the minds journey back to solid reality of waking. This is the tibetan view. They say that waking life corresponds to life, Sleep corresponds to Death, and Dreaming corresponds to seeking rebirth. The practice of dream yoga is to remain aware and lucid through all these states without obliteration of consciousness that happens when people fall asleep or dies. According to the Tibetans, when someone dies he encounters the CLEAR LIGHT (not white light). The clear light of death is called 'the Mother light'. Upon falling asleep and before dreaming (from alpha to theta and finally to delta) upon arriving in Delta one encounters 'THE CLEAR LIGHT OF SLEEP' or 'the son light'. They call it the son because according to them it is just like the clear light of death but smaller.

You will only be tired if your awareness keeps you from going into Delta, in which case you need to relax more and try it more effortlessly. But, 'Gurus' and other 'enlightened' people say that upon enlightenment they never lose consciousness and that they are aware 24-7. And what is more, only 'enlightened' people don't dream anymore, unless they choose to, but it isn't compulsory.

By practicing lucid dream yoga, the tibetans claim that they prepare for the transition between death and rebirth. First of all, they say that if you merge with the clear light of death you will be liberated and enlightened. The ability to do that at death is measured by the ability to do that when sleeping.
If one blacks out when one dies (which they say happens to most) one will eventually find oneself in a realm of visions (they call it Bardo of rebirth), which one mistakes for being real (like dreams). Both beautiful and terrifying visions are possible. But you still can become liberated in the Bardo if one becomes lucid and recognizes all the scenery and beautiful and terrifying beings as only projections of one's mind. They have great instructions on achieving lucidity in the Bardo called "The Book of Liberation by Hearing" AKA: "The Tibetan Book of the Dead" or "Bardo Thodol"

When one achieves lucidity in the Bardos, the Tibetans claim that they can choose to be reborn or not and keep their lucidity and memories of their past life. They can choose when and where to be reborn, in this world or another. These people are called "Tulkus". The Dalia Lama is just one such person who has this title. For such a person it is said that even this world is like a lucid dream.

But for the person who does not achieve lucidity he ends up running from terrifying demons or hallucinations and goes and hides behind a bush or a cave or something but it turns out to be a womb and he is reborn without lucidity and it is by chance to whom he is born and where.

The Tibetans believe that a person can be reborn either in a Hell, or as a hungry ghost, or as an animal, or as a human, or as a powerful jealous God, or as a demon depending on the quality of their awareness. All these states are temporary and even if they become a god they will have to eventually die and go through the whole process over and over and over again until finally they can enter the clear light with awareness and become liberated from the whole cycle of life, death, rebirth.

Whether or not this is true is not the point, but the point is that this all applies to lucid dreaming and staying lucid all night and all day. But you have to merge into the Delta (clear light of sleep) in order to recharge your energy. And if you get very angry you lose your lucidity and you are in a hell realm. If you get greedy, worried about food and sex and survival, you are in an animal consciousness, if you are addicted to something like a substance or an emotion or a person you have the hungry ghost consciousness. If you are constantly trying to improve yourself but get hung up and vain about it you will have the jealous god consciousness, etc... Movie stars in Hollywood remind me of Jealous gods, Alcoholics and Drug Addicts remind me of hungry ghosts. Prison and jail are Hell and war is hell, etc...

So.... Be lucid, don't forget, practice entering deeper and deeper brainwaves without losing awareness.

first of all babies spend what 50 to 75 % of their time in REM

This is because they are learning sooo rapidly the mind needs to process it all. It is like the Matrix is being downloaded into them.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

This is because they are learning sooo rapidly the mind needs to process it all. It is like the Matrix is being downloaded into them.

Lol, I never thought about this.

@Dannon Oneironaut
I am glad you took the time to write all that information.
I actually stay aware pretty far into sleep; once I get the hang of it I don't think WILDS will be that much of a problem due to my innate trance ability.
Now that you have told me more, I find myself greatly interested in this Tibetan Dream Yoga.

The ideas are very profound, in a good way.
I would be hopeful that I will be able to choose my path, but that remains to be seen.

Either way though; I am studying neuroscience, so I must remind you that the brain does release a chemical on death; called 5MEODMT, I don't remember much about it, but it is said to be the trigger to spiritual enlightenment just before death; putting you at peace with everything, perhaps this is the state you speak of.

This doesn't discredit what you have said at all, just putting in my two cents.

Originally Posted by Tobi Uchiha

@Dannon Oneironaut
I
Either way though; I am studying neuroscience, so I must remind you that the brain does release a chemical on death; called 5MEODMT, I don't remember much about it, but it is said to be the trigger to spiritual enlightenment just before death; putting you at peace with everything, perhaps this is the state you speak of.

This doesn't discredit what you have said at all, just putting in my two cents.

I was actually going to go into it a little more about the DMT but the post was long enough and I was trying to stay on topic. But I can't resist now that you bring it up.

Yes, DMT is released from the pineal gland when one dies. It is also relaeased at other times such as during childbirth (in both the mother and the baby) unless the mother is on drugs and/or the baby is born through cesarean. DMT is released in dreams. DMT is also released in the embryo or fetus (I forgot the difference between embryo and fetus) at the 49th day of pregnancy when the pineal gland is developed. It is interesting to note that according to the Tibetan Buddhists it takes at least 49 days to reincarnate.
My feeling is that DMT is the chemical of consciousness in the brain. A lot of DMT acts as a bridge between the Bardos. Just the right amount keeps you operating in waking life functionally. Too much will make you schizophrenic, too little will make you feel dull and slow and stupid and unaware. This makes sense since anti-psychotic drugs like Thorazine block the receptors in the brain that recieve DMT and this is how patients describe the feeling of being on Thorazine.
It is interesting how the pineal produces DMT. It needs sufficient melatonin and melatonin is only created when you are in darkness, ie. sleeping. I am not educated on how melatonin is converted into DMT but it seems like DMT is necessary for dreaming. Another interesting fact is how the pineal gland is not part of the brain, but it is IN the brain in the hollow center, am I right? So the DMT is released directly into the brain and brain/spinal fluid before it even enters the bloodstream. So it is hard to measure the amount of active DMT in someone because by the time it arrives in the blood stream most of it is used up. Is this correct or am I confused?
Tryptomines are fascinating.
This, I think, further reinforces the relationship between death and dreaming.

What does DMT do? I got comfused at that point...