Do you guys believe everything happens for a reason?

**ld411** · 08-21-2010 01:24 AM

Title says it all

**Spartiate** · 08-21-2010 01:46 AM

Well given the nature of causality, the answer should be a pretty obvious yes. But I assume you're referring to destiny or some supernatural power meddling in every day events, in which case no, I don't believe in that.

**ld411** · 08-21-2010 02:17 AM

Can you elaborate please?

**Keresztanya** · 08-21-2010 02:55 AM

I think that everything does happen for a reason, yes. Even very insignificant things can drastically alter the course of what was going to happen, I've seen it happen to me quite a few times..

**Spartiate** · 08-21-2010 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by ld411

Can you elaborate please?

Well everything does happen for a reason in the sense that every event needs a cause, that's causality. If you're saying that there is some kind of greater meaning behind these events and that perhaps some higher power is at work to create specific outcomes, that's just superstition.

**Keresztanya** · 08-21-2010 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Well everything does happen for a reason in the sense that every event needs a cause, that's causality. If you're saying that there is some kind of greater meaning behind these events and that perhaps some higher power is at work to create specific outcomes, that's just superstition.

I don't think that any higher powers directly alter the course of events, but I think there could be ways that it's slowly "pushed" towards the right direction

**Spartiate** · 08-21-2010 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Keresztanya

I don't think that any higher powers directly alter the course of events, but I think there could be ways that it's slowly "pushed" towards the right direction

By?

**Maria92** · 08-21-2010 05:31 AM

In terms of causality, yes.
In terms of it being significant or meaningful to the 'progression' of the universe or whatever, no.

**Keresztanya** · 08-21-2010 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by Spartiate

By?

I'm not really sure, but I feel it's happened to me a few times. Quite hard to explain, I'll probably just delete my posts when shit gets real

**Spartiate** · 08-21-2010 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Keresztanya

I'm not really sure, but I feel it's happened to me a few times. Quite hard to explain, I'll probably just delete my posts when shit gets real

Just don't "rely" on the universe to make things happen for you, you have to create your own opportunities!

**Keresztanya** · 08-21-2010 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Just don't "rely" on the universe to make things happen for you, you have to create your own opportunities!

Oh, but I do. I don't rely on the universe to make anything happen. I just feel that it happens sometimes, and it's just a nice thing that's there.

**Zhaylin** · 08-21-2010 08:57 AM

While out walking one day, I paused my steps to spit Seconds after doing so, a car sped by (through a stop sign) without even slowing. I realized with amused and humble amazement that spitting had saved my life (or at least a really bad injury).

So yeah, I believe in Causality. I'm also religiously inclined, so I do believe God "pushes" certain events as well (as in having a prayer answered *right away*).
But I do not believe in predestination.

It IS good when everything happens "just right". I don't think I've experienced such in years lol *sigh*

**Marvo** · 08-21-2010 12:44 PM

I'm of the same opinion as Spartiate. One of the reasons we don't have free will either.

**Ilumirath** · 08-21-2010 02:07 PM

Yes the universe makes almost everything happen for a reason.

**Spartiate** · 08-21-2010 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

While out walking one day, I paused my steps to spit Seconds after doing so, a car sped by (through a stop sign) without even slowing. I realized with amused and humble amazement that spitting had saved my life (or at least a really bad injury).

You mean you wouldn't have looked both ways before crossing the street

.

Originally Posted by Marvo

I'm of the same opinion as Spartiate. One of the reasons we don't have free will either.

That I disagree with though. Humans, unlike rocks, have the ability to reflect on their decisions/actions in order to chose the most advantageous outcome for themselves. Past experiences will make people more likely to chose a certain course of action, but not destined to.

**Xei** · 08-21-2010 07:46 PM

I agree completely with Spartiate.

I always say that the fact you were always going to choose one way or another does not detract from the fact that you did choose.

I think the negation of free will is often meaningless, and certainly useless.

No amount of philosophising can deny the intuitive answer we receive when we ask ourselves 'do I make choices?'. Of course we do.

**Marvo** · 08-21-2010 09:27 PM

If humans have genuine free will, wouldn't that conflict causality? Everything we decide to do is based off of earlier experiences and knowledge. I don't see how our decision making is any different from an elaborate AI.

**Spartiate** · 08-21-2010 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Marvo

If humans have genuine free will, wouldn't that conflict causality? Everything we decide to do is based off of earlier experiences and knowledge. I don't see how our decision making is any different from an elaborate AI.

You're thinking of causality as some unbreakable chain that will always lead to the same outcome. I see causality in terms of probability, previous events have a certain probability of affecting subsequent events (because there is rarely only one cause to an effect). In this manner, previous life experiences have a certain "weight" when it comes to making a decision, but ultimately, there is still a decision to be made.

**Xei** · 08-22-2010 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by Marvo

If humans have genuine free will, wouldn't that conflict causality? Everything we decide to do is based off of earlier experiences and knowledge. I don't see how our decision making is any different from an elaborate AI.

I'm a soft determinist. I think the only appropriate response to this question is: so what? We make choices, don't we?

**Marvo** · 08-22-2010 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by Xei

I'm a soft determinist. I think the only appropriate response to this question is: so what? We make choices, don't we?

Absolute, I agree, the notion of free will not existing really is not very meaningful, though it does give us one interesting perspective; at some point AI will be able to do what we're doing.

**Xei** · 08-22-2010 02:21 AM

I never understand why people find that surprising... a Turing machine can emulate any physical system, hence it could emulate a whole brain. Such an AI would make choices just like the rest of us... and would be no more rational or irrational than us, either.

It seems to me that the converse belief is that human brains are made of 'magic stuff' which doesn't obey the laws of nature...

**kookyinc** · 08-22-2010 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Well given the nature of causality, the answer should be a pretty obvious yes. But I assume you're referring to destiny or some supernatural power meddling in every day events, in which case no, I don't believe in that.

Yeah.

**Marvo** · 08-22-2010 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Xei

I never understand why people find that surprising... a Turing machine can emulate any physical system, hence it could emulate a whole brain. Such an AI would make choices just like the rest of us... and would be no more rational or irrational than us, either.

It seems to me that the converse belief is that human brains are made of 'magic stuff' which doesn't obey the laws of nature...

I wouldn't say it's surprising, but when you think about it, it is quite interesting I think. What is a turing machine exactly btw.? I never learned about that.

**Xei** · 08-22-2010 03:36 AM

Oh, a Turing machine is just a machine that can be programmed to perform any algorithm, essentially.

It's conceptualised as an infinite tape which can be marked, along with a device with an 'internal state' which runs along the tape, reading markings one by one, and then changing markings and its state and position accordingly.

Modern computers are essentially equivalent to any Turing machine (i.e. they can run any algorithm), which makes them 'universal Turing machines'.

**louie54** · 08-22-2010 05:21 AM

No I don't believe everything happens for a reason, as in some higher power (like God) set up things, for you, in advance to direct something in your life. However, I never thought about that every event needs a cause. I stopped believing in these sort of higher powers, I think we are all kind of just here on this little blue object floating through space, insignificantly.

Also on free will, I'm not sure what exactly to believe on that. I realize now that a lot of what we do is governed by some physical aspect. Most people who need to lose weight have such a hard time dieting and exercising because they think they can just simply will themselves to do it, but something in their brain is holding them back and making them lazy. But notice how I said "most people", because I know that there are people out there that do have the will to do so. How did they get fat in the first place... well maybe they were just craving too much McD's (in their brain, that would be dopamine which is another psychobiological factor), but this can just go on forever.