Thread: Does "Killing People with Kindness" really work??

depends on the situation and person. for example, say something thinks your a total ass for some reason and they come up to you all angry and pissed off. But you just respond really nice and calm. They go oh maybe hes not an ass..... But really I mean if someones pissed normally they don't calm down an get nice just because you say something nice. I would have a hard time attacking someone like that in most cases. I normally only feel motivated to attack assholes.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

You need to express your anger. Otherwise it sits inside you eating away at your soul.

You don't need to express it, you need to experience it and understand it. Even if you express it, it causes you suffering, because you are still not at peace with what is. Unless you experience your emotions and understand their cause and effect you are powerless and they will control you. You will not be free.

When you get angry about something you are resisting what is, that is exactly what anger is, resistence. This resistance to what is is the root of all suffering. This resistance is what eats away at your soul because every moment you are angry is a moment that you can't be happy, blissful even, completely seeing the beauty of this world. When you resist you lose your connection with the flow.

If you are motivated to attack anyone you are still resisting what is, you are eating away at your own soul.

Originally Posted by dacher2

It doesn't work don't even try it. I know from self experience.

It does work, please try harder. I know this from self-less experience.

Because even if you don't get the other person to change it is still a better way for you to be.

Originally Posted by stonedape

You don't need to express it, you need to experience it and understand it. Even if you express it, it causes you suffering, because you are still not at peace with what is. Unless you experience your emotions and understand their cause and effect you are powerless and they will control you. You will not be free.

When you get angry about something you are resisting what is, that is exactly what anger is, resistence. This resistance to what is is the root of all suffering. This resistance is what eats away at your soul because every moment you are angry is a moment that you can't be happy, blissful even, completely seeing the beauty of this world. When you resist you lose your connection with the flow.

If you are motivated to attack anyone you are still resisting what is, you are eating away at your own soul.

yes!

Originally Posted by stonedape

You don't need to express it, you need to experience it and understand it. Even if you express it, it causes you suffering, because you are still not at peace with what is. Unless you experience your emotions and understand their cause and effect you are powerless and they will control you. You will not be free.

When you get angry about something you are resisting what is, that is exactly what anger is, resistence. This resistance to what is is the root of all suffering. This resistance is what eats away at your soul because every moment you are angry is a moment that you can't be happy, blissful even, completely seeing the beauty of this world. When you resist you lose your connection with the flow.

If you are motivated to attack anyone you are still resisting what is, you are eating away at your own soul.

You must realize that all of your emotions are only manifestations of your mind. They are energy inside of you. energy you created with your own thoughts. Your own thoughts cause your suffering. whatever you feel there is nothing wrong with that. it is only who you are. and to not accept who you are and to resist yourself keeps all that negativity locked up inside. and it builds up over time. and it feels like pain. a pain far worse than any physical pain. it is hate. Hate is suffering. It is what condemns what is. And what is is god. And to condemn yourself is to condemn god. And to condemn another is to condemn god. Yet not all anger is manifested out of the intention of hate. Anger can also be manifested out of the intention of love. When someone harms someone else or you it is natural to get angry. If someone takes away your freedom to love all unconditionally, it makes you angry. this is sooo natural. And to sit back and do nothing and say I love you so I'm just going to let you oppress everyone is foolish. because you do love them and you love the ones they oppress, but you don't want anyone to suffer so you get angry and fight. this is the truth. this is your truth. Deep down inside. The part of you that sees all as equal. the part that loves everything and everyone unconditionally, because it sees suffering is pointless.

I don't think your getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying anger is wrong, I'm saying anger causes suffering. Expressing anger causes suffering, doesn't it?

I also did not say to resist it, in fact I said the opposite. Face your anger, realize that you are the one who is creating resistance in that moment, not the one you are angry at. Feel that anger and just let it be. Then look at it, what is it's real cause. It's root cause is resistance to what is. If you do this it will not build up, it will dissapate instantly when you see that it is you who is causing your own suffering.

Hate is only one form of suffering. Anger is another. Suffering is what you feel when you resist what is.

It may be natural to get angry when someone harms someone else, but that doesn't mean it doesn't cause suffering. Or that it's good or bad, or wrong or right.

What is natural is simply that, natural.

I also did not say to sit back and do nothing. I said to love them, to show them compassion. Compassion is an active thing. It is not standing by and doing nothing, but standing up for what's right in the face of all adversity.

As Bob said, we've got something they can never take a away. No one can stop you from showing unconditional love, except by killing you I guess. And while I certainly wish people wouild stop killing each other I don't get angry about it, because that would not solve the problem, it would just cause me suffering. If you want to stop opression don't get angry, do something. We cannot end oppression through violence, only through a revolution of the mind. We must create a society with such overwhelming virtue that opression is not possible.

Suffering is not pointless, through suffering we may learn.

If you truly love someone unconditionally, how can you attack them? Defense of self and other's is different, it is defense not attack.

Firstlyness Looking at anger doesn't make it disappear. yes accepting it is the first step to healing it. I was stuck on the shit I have to understand all my negative emotions. but really are there is to realize is suffering is pointless. Accept who your are first. then you have to let that negative energy flow out of you. It doesn't just magically disappear. Meditation helps this. Also just expressing how you feel right now and not living a lie, feeling one way and acting another. All this allows your energy to flow naturally and allows it to heal.
so really all there is to learn is nothing. Suffering is pointless that all there is to it. Only the mind wants to understand. Just flow and understanding comes naturally. Just experience now. And let everything in the now flow to the rhythm of the universe. Zion isn't ruled by tyrants.

My point is that it doesn't need to be expressed, unless you want to explain to someone why they're behaviour upsets you in hopes they won't do it again.

If you really see it, you not only see the emotion but also see the cause. By seeing the cause, which is a part of you, you can stop creating suffering. The thing to see is not that suffering is pointless, but what is the cause of it.

The purpose of learning from suffering is to not do it again. You can also then help others to get out of their own suffering. There is no point to creating suffering in the first place, but it has a purpose.

The way I see it expression is letting go of your emotions. The cause of suffering is you. It is your mind. the mind that judges and sees in a way that makes things not equal. So obviously you have to break the habit of judgement so you stop creating more negativity, then there is healing which is getting rid of negativity. I think healing is expression. It is an expression of love for yourself. It is an expression of love for others. Expressing negativity allows it to heal. When you go to concert and dance in the moshpit don't you feel really good after? You let go of that negativity. the energy flows and heals. Emotions can be complicated. But you don't really need to pick them apart and understand them. You only need to express them and heal them. So expression is healing. Meditation is healing. Meditation is expression. It is an expression of love for yourself. it allows that crap to flow out of you. The crap it hate. hate for yourself, hate for others, hate for anything and everything. Just let it go. let it flow. be yourself. Yes you are full of hate. You made yourself that way. Now it is time to accept it and allow it to heal. let go of all the pain. its not easy. It takes awhile. It is all you've ever wanted though.

Expression reinforces your emotions. By taking action based on a particular emotion, you are basically saying that emotion is the proper response to the situation. Then when you are in the same situation again you will be more likely to act in the same way. You basically become an anger junkie, it's your way of dealing with things just like the junky's way is to shoot up and ignore the situation.

Healing and meditation are beautiful things, but are you saying they're an expression of anger? Or are you saying letting go of emotions is an expression of anger? I don't think any of those are. An expression of anger sounds more like this:


Or punching someone or yelling.

But seriously, expressing anger is in someway a resistance to what is. If you are at peace with what is, you have no reason to be angry, it goes away without it being expressed. It is possible to catch yourself before you even get upset every time, in my opinion this is a very good thing to do both for yourself and others.

It's better to see the cause of anger and transform it than to express it.

Personally I don't think I'd like moshing anymore. When I was young I liked it, but I had a lot of anger held up inside.

I only get angry if I don't meditate in the morning and have something that I really really want to do. When this happens I ignore what I am doing because I'm caught up in the future. When I do this I don't properly respond to what is, which creates a problem, then I get mad at something because this problem shouldn't be, I have important things to do! But if you really see things as they are there is no reason to get angry in the first place, it's all impermanent, so why get upset?

You don't have to find a way to live without ever getting angry, but that sure sounds nice to me.

YEs, expression is a short term solution. Understanding is a long term solution. Expressing anger that is not righteous but just caused by a hurt ego or you taking something personally is not going to help you or the other person in the long run. It won't help you to not get angry in the future under similar circumstances. Neither is to ignore your anger. Go off by yourself, feel your anger, let it out, then once the rage is gone, ask yourself why you got so angry. Be honest with yourself. Was your anger righteous? The temptation is to rationalize your anger and to tell yourself a story that makes you look like a victim and that your anger was righteous. But you will most likely be fooling yourself. Really, nobody has any power over you. Nobody can make you angry without your deciding to be angry. Of course there is psychology and biology to contend with, but still... only you decide how you feel.

If someone is an asshole to you, so what? They are the asshole, not you, so it shouldn't affect you too much. Just say "whatever, if you want to be an asshole have it your way, but I won't play this game with you, go find someone else to be an asshole to." Or have a little fun and tease them to make them aware that they are being an asshole and you will remain happy." For a self-centered person who always talks about themselves and they drain your energy and you cannot get away, just tell them to kindly shut up. Or interrupt them and talk about something completely different. That is what I do. Laugh, whatever, just don't participate if you don't want to.

If someone is angry at you, they may have a reason. Someone was angry at me recently because of how they were feeling and didn't communicate it to me so I was oblivious and it built up inside them and they let it all out yelling at me. Of course, this is a friend of mine who cares about me. I just listened and said "OK." They accused me of things that they exaggerated and I didn't get defensive or try to correct them. He was expressing his emotions and I just listened and understood. He immediately calmed down and I said "Let's talk." It became a very heartfelt exchange where we both became better friends.

If a friend is yelling at you you can just say "Hey! I don't like you tone! It is me, your friend _______. I am your friend, talk to me! What's going on?"

If you don't care about the person then nothing they do should affect you. If you are friends you should trust each other enough to say anything.

whatever, if you want to be an asshole have it your way, but I won't play this game with you, go find someone else to be an asshole to." Or have a little fun and tease them to make them aware that they are being an asshole and you will remain happy

This is what I do about 90% of the time. I make fun of them for acting stupid and ridiculous. But when people really pursue me with anger. i just want to get away. I don't want to be around them. Won't leave me alone? won't leave others alone? thats when I get pissed and desire change. I honestly feel that some people deserve to get their ass beat. sometimes its what allows them to learn a lesson. And obviously if someone attacks me I'm going to fight back and not just take it.

I am your friend, talk to me! What's going on?"

With close friends I am always like that too. I always want to understand them more. I want to understand everyone really. I don't want people to suffer. I love them. Some people are stupid though and I'm not going ot say this. They might get more angry. I see everyone as family. I hate them all. But at the same time I love them all unconditionally and see them all as beautiful.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

This is what I do about 90% of the time. I make fun of them for acting stupid and ridiculous. But when people really pursue me with anger. i just want to get away. I don't want to be around them. Won't leave me alone? won't leave others alone? thats when I get pissed and desire change. I honestly feel that some people deserve to get their ass beat. sometimes its what allows them to learn a lesson. And obviously if someone attacks me I'm going to fight back and not just take it.

Where do you draw the line? It is your anger that makes you feel they deserve this, it is your misperception and lack of love that causes it.

When you beat someones ass what lesson do they learn? That people are violent, that we don't have patience. That people are shit so what does it matter anyway. Break the cycle. You cannot make peace with war.

Self defense is entirely differnt issue. If someone attacks you fight back. But no one ever deserves to be physically attacked.

Peace can be made with war. if you win the fight and are fighting for equallity and love. I would be nice if everyone could just decide to put their weapons down and not fight anymore. But in truth people don't do that and that is why killing people with kindness normally doesn't work in most situations. Because they are provoking you. They have hate for you. You fight their hate. Overcoming it with love. However that manifests. As violence or a hug of understanding and love. It really depends on the situation. Is their intention out of self importance? Is that the source of their anger? Are they fighting because they believe someone is being hurt? are they fighting for unconditional love and freedom for all? it depends on the intention. It depends on the situation and what is the best thing to do in that situation. Sometimes self importance destroys others. sometimes it is best to destroy that source of self importance to stop the destruction. That is why people rebel against their governments. Because they are filled with self importance rather than being for the good of everyone in the country. they are motivaated out of greed. So often people are pushed to the limit and they get pissed and violent and change that. It happens the same in realtionships between humans. Whatever you feel that is ok. Just go with it. Your feelings are perfectly ok. and its ok to be yourself.

Originally Posted by saltyseedog

Peace can be made with war. if you win the fight and are fighting for equallity and love. I would be nice if everyone could just decide to put their weapons down and not fight anymore. But in truth people don't do that and that is why killing people with kindness normally doesn't work in most situations. Because they are provoking you. They have hate for you. You fight their hate. Overcoming it with love. However that manifests. As violence or a hug of understanding and love. It really depends on the situation. Is their intention out of self importance? Is that the source of their anger? Are they fighting because they believe someone is being hurt? are they fighting for unconditional love and freedom for all? it depends on the intention.

Even if those are your intentions, if you are violent and attack people you are not making peace. If you conquer a violent race of people and take their land violently, is the land not still occupied by violent people?

In my experience, if you do it right, if you show them compassion rathter than just acting nice, killing them with kindness works in every situation. Compassion is always the right choice, agression is never.

Whether something is right or wrong does not depend on your intentions. It depends on whether or not it causes harm or suffering. It is not ok to hurt other people, why would it be? They don't deserve it, there is no such thing as deserving, it's just an opinion you hold.

If they strike the first blow it's completely different. But even if they are threatening you, the loving action is not attacking them, it's talking to them. And not threatening back, but getting to the root of the problem and working it out rationally.

It depends on the situation and what is the best thing to do in that situation.

This I agree with, but attacking someone is never the best thing to do. Even in extreme situations. Like with a violent oppressive government.

Sometimes self importance destroys others. sometimes it is best to destroy that source of self importance to stop the destruction. That is why people rebel against their governments. Because they are filled with self importance rather than being for the good of everyone in the country. they are motivaated out of greed. So often people are pushed to the limit and they get pissed and violent and change that. It happens the same in realtionships between humans. Whatever you feel that is ok. Just go with it. Your feelings are perfectly ok. and its ok to be yourself.

By destroying a source of destruction, you merely create another.

Can you show me an example of a violent revolution that brought lasting peace(you can't, I've already looked for one)? America rebeled against the british and look where we are now, we're worse than they were. We polute everything and go to other countries to steal their resources. We aren't peaceful.

We have violent and corrupt governments, yes it's true. BUt if we violently overthrow them the people in charge of overthrowing them will take over. All you get is a new oppressor. In america, we say we have democratic ideals so we're good, we're better than these opressors. BUt just because dirt tastes better than shit that doesn't mean you should eat it. The ideal, the best way of being, is to be non-violent, which does not mean that you don't fight back, it means that you don't start conflict on every level of life.

There have been peaceful societies on this earth that never attacked anyone. I believe that if we have a peaceful revolution and overthrow the government through non-violent means we can go back to living like this, we can stop having societies based on dominance and move back toward voluntary relationships. But a violent revolution will never bring about real change, real freedom. Just maybe at best less opression for a while until things add up and it gets bad again.

Sometimes humans need to change their relationship, yes. BUt aggression is never the best way to do it. If you don't want them around, make it known and leave. If they are physically harming you and following you it is not agression when you hit them but defense.

Is it ok when the rapist feels horny and wants to rapes someone? No, unless you really don't care about people and don't give a damn what happens.

If you are angry that is ok, but it is not ok to get angry. It can always be avoided and it does noone any good.

Well I tryed... but I give up..... I agree with like half the things you say. its just sometimes its ok to fight. and I don't want to take the first blow in a fight. Follow your heart and it'll be alright. Choose the unconditional love for all in your heart or you can choose self importance. Do what feels right in your heart.

If you really understood unconditional love, you would understand that it means that you LOVE everyone. Can you really strike someone if you are feeling love towards them?

When is it ok to fight? When is that the best way to solve a problem?

Unconditional love never gives up.

You think because you love someone unconditionally means you can't fight them.

No, it means you wouldn't start the fight.

If you love someone, would you ever want that person to experience pain?

There is always another way to work to solve a problem other than violence*. It is always a better way to do it than violence, because violence causes more problems.

*I probably don't need to mention it, but I mean agression, initiating violence. If the problem is someone is currently beating you kicking their ass is a good way to get them to stop.