Thread: I fought for my country an I do not hope I fought in vain

@OldSparta

I know the differences between Little boy and fat man.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

We had Japan beaten already without nukes. They were completely unnecessary. The war was already over. We dropped them to stabilize our position as a world power and show off our ability to devastate the enemy just to remind them the war was over.

Rule of power no. 15: Crush your enemy totally.

Completely wrong.

The Americans sent messages urging Japan to surrender and they were ignored. Invading mainland Japan would have been a hornets nest. Every single Japanese citizen was prepared to fight to the death samurai style.

The effects of dropping the A bombs were terrible but totally necessary. They were as much a psychological weapon as a weapon of mass destruction.

The Japanese were negotiating their surrender with the USSR. Meanwhile the USSR was already secretly planning an invasion of Japan. You can argue, if you like, that the Japanese Empire needed to be destroyed to stabilize Allied Power but you cannot argue that they were any sort of real threat or that the nuclear strategy was necessary to win the war. Claiming one of the most devastating firebombs in history took more lives than the nukes doesn't mean nukes are a civil battle tactic.

They WERE negotiating with the Soviets, but they didn't actually surrender. The Russians were encouraging them to surrender, but because the allies wanted an unconditional surrender, they did not actually surrender, and talks between the soviet Union and Japan broke down.

And no, dropping an atomic bomb on isn't civil, but compared to the alternatives, it was one of the best case scenarios.

They had no navy left. They had nothing left but their shitty island. Your alternative is what? more firebombs and an invasion? I agree an invasion would have cost more lives but it doesn't justify a post-war assault of any kind. The US was sick of Japan's pride and wanted to show them what it earned them. Then they gave themselves a pimp shoulder dust.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

They had no navy left. They had nothing left but their shitty island. Your alternative is what? more firebombs and an invasion? I agree an invasion would have cost more lives but it doesn't justify a post-war assault of any kind. The US was sick of Japan's pride and wanted to show them what it earned them. Then they gave themselves a pimp shoulder dust.

You're not understanding though... They NEVER surrendered. Even when the Russians pushed them to. They would have kept on fighting. It had nothing to do with US pride and shit like that. Japan has a never give up mentality. They WILL fight to the last man, unless their spirits are completely shattered. The sheer size and damage cause by ONE bomb and ONE explosion was that kick in the ass they needed. That was the end. No amount of fighting would help. It made them realize fighting was pointless, and a waste of lives.

Originally Posted by OldSparta

Japan has a never give up mentality. They WILL fight to the last man, unless their spirits are completely shattered.

Indeed. Let us not forget the Kamikaze pilots.

When I watched Letters from Iwo Jima the first time I thought, "Though idiots deserved to lose the fucking war." The second time I drank every time a jap killed themselves. Got wasted. There's definitely respect owed to the people in that situation. I might have dropped the bombs, too. But I'd like to think we have the same potential for honor that they have. I like to think that honor means one lives by their philosophy without compromise, knowing the real test is not which society is nicer but which society is more durable. My take on honor is not about being a gentlemen for the sake of being a gentlemen. Honor is about recognizing, in life, that the only teacher is the example you give and just as you give your example to your peers, each nation gives an example to the others it shares this planet with. Each culture has, ingrained within its genes and traditions, a competing worldview and with it, a unique ethical philosophy.

Loyalty to tradition (and the courage to be loyal to tradition without compromise) is the vehicle through which cultures test their values for durability. This is the way of the world and the Japanese knew it which is why they were so willing to sacrifice lives in order to preserve their nation and why they would sometimes commit suicide to preserve the reputation of their family or community. We did not nuke a people unfamiliar with the price of war. Even if we had managed to pull-off some Pacifist's wet-dream of an Embargo that finally squeezed them into negotiable terms, there's still reason to believe thousands or even millions would have killed themselves anyways just because the desperate Imperial Government commanded them to.

But I wonder what it says about the values of the American People or the durability of those values when the murder of millions of people and the eradication of two cities can be so nonchalantly justified. I wonder what kind of future we are constructing by leading the world this way and achieving dominance this way. I wonder what kind of world we could build if we led with a different example.

Oh sweet jesus OP has got to be trolling, I can see no conceivable way how anyone could be so ignorant...

Originally Posted by LonelyTurtle

Oh sweet jesus OP has got to be trolling, I can see no conceivable way how anyone could be so ignorant...

You've obviously never seen creationists on YouTube in that case.

Originally Posted by LonelyTurtle

Oh sweet jesus OP has got to be trolling, I can see no conceivable way how anyone could be so ignorant...

This is what I thought immediately as well.

Edit: OP is banned. Was a mayflow alt lololol.

Originally Posted by Seroquel

Edit: OP is banned. Was a mayflow alt lololol.

Will we ever be free from the curse that is Mayflow?

Originally Posted by Seroquel

This is what I thought immediately as well.

Edit: OP is banned. Was a mayflow alt lololol.

Is he a persistent troll or what? Seems a bit like he's trying too hard, he types likes he's not fluent in english and retarded. Perhaps if he didn't venture into obvious troll territory he would stir up people more.

Originally Posted by LonelyTurtle

Is he a persistent troll or what? Seems a bit like he's trying too hard, he types likes he's not fluent in english and retarded. Perhaps if he didn't venture into obvious troll territory he would stir up people more.

lol. If trolling is a art, this chap is fingerpainting.

Another one down.

Next..

So how do you guys know that's Mayflow's alt? .-.

Ask Nina.

See the title

Leave now and never come back.