Thread: Save the Internet: Preserve Network Neutrality

Originally posted by Distant Clone
I just had an off-topic thought. I think it would be really hilarious if we have all the Mexicans immigrate to the United States, then all these Americans immigrate to Canada. What would Canada do? Learn to swim?

To a certain point, I agree with Howetzer. However, I'm of the opinion that, while the US's system is good, the people aren't, and eventually one of the two will either greatly improve or fail miserably. America's people can't continue on being as ignorant, lazy and selfish as they are and expect their system to continue to uphold them. The system will have to change to motivate the people, or the people will have to change to energize the system. At the current rate of things, though, I'm guessing that things are about to go downhill fast in the USA.

i love the usa and i will never forgive its true enemies...but i've lost my ability to discuss politics--it always ends the same way, and we're taught in america that conviction should replace ignorance.

Originally posted by Tsen
To a certain point, I agree with Howetzer. However, I'm of the opinion that, while the US's system is good, the people aren't, and eventually one of the two will either greatly improve or fail miserably. America's people can't continue on being as ignorant, lazy and selfish as they are and expect their system to continue to uphold them. The system will have to change to motivate the people, or the people will have to change to energize the system. At the current rate of things, though, I'm guessing that things are about to go downhill fast in the USA.

I wish I could NOT agree with you. But human nature and greed make a democracy a temporary government!
I really believe the founding fathers had their heads on straight but could only account for so much stupidity.

Originally posted by mongreloctopus
violence is a pretty popular medium of politcal action now and always has been. one day violence probably won't be necessary, and probably won't be very effective, but it's the single most effective tool for inciting change right now--which is why people can't seem to stop killing each other all across the world...however, when i say "violence" i don't mean just violence against people, but rather against buildings, companies, ideas, economy, whatever.

So you think that jeopardizing or even destroying the infrastructure of the internet is the way to prevent Congress from giving control of which sites load and which don't over to private corporations? You think that blowing up AT&T headquarters, potentially killing and injuring hundreds of innocent people and endangering the livelihoods of thousands more, or launching DOS attacks, or hacking websites with which you don't agree is the way to incite political change? "Preserve net neutrality or I'll blow you up" - do you honestly think such a tactic would work?

All that would do is cause law enforcement to clamp down on those responsible, and it would cast the entire movement in a disreputable light. You cannot preserve through destruction. Violence begets only more violence - it always has and it always will. Do you wonder why there are people killing each other all over the world? It is because one violent act opens up the possibility of millions more, like the single crack which begets an avalanche. If it's okay for one person, it's okay for every person. By engaging in such behavior, you endorse such behavior, regardless of who perpetrates it.

Originally posted by mongreloctopus
once we've put them in office it's free reign. *the way the american people are treated by the government proves that the officials have absolutely no respect for americans.

No, the way the American people are treated by the government shows that the people have no respect for themselves. If we cared enough about ourselves, about the future of our country and the future of the world which we are affecting through our selfish, short-sighted, and ill-conceived policies, we could change the course of our own history. There are nearly 400 million American citizens and less than 600 national elected representatives. Change is not enacted not because those 400 million Americans lack the money to bribe their representatives, but because they lack the will and desire to participate. They do not pay attention to the atrocities committed in their name because such things seem so far away. They think that freedoms taken away from others will never become freedoms taken away from them. It is a tragedy of the human condition that this happens over and over again, that we do not learn from our own history. Good people doing nothing seems to be quite the tradition:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."[/b]

All it takes to change a democracy is the will of its people. And the United States remains a democracy, despite the fact that so very few of its citizens choose to exercise the powers such a democracy grants them and the responsibilities such a democracy demands of them. We are the stewards of this government. We have allowed corporate interests to infiltrate the democratic process because we haven't cared enough yet to stop it. Maybe we are finally starting to care. But you, by dismissing the validity and effectiveness of the democratic process, by advocating violent action instead of civic action, are only contributing to its impotence.

Petitions are the voice of the people, and when that voice is loud enough, not even the raucous roar of a Capitol Hill hooker, poker party can drown it out. Do nothing if you so desire, but do not dismiss the contributions of those who seek to improve what you are unwilling to.

Bitching, moaning, and advocating blowing shit up from an ocean away is not a strategy for political reform. It's just the jumbled lyrics of some uninformed teenage rock song that can't decide whether it wants to be emo or angry.

like i said, i'm not going to argue. my suggestion stands (donating money is more effective than signing a petition...of course, THEN it requires real sacrifice..).

Originally posted by mongreloctopus
like i said, i'm not going to argue. *my suggestion stands (donating money is more effective than signing a petition...of course, THEN it requires real sacrifice..).

Throwing money at problems rarely makes them go away. It just makes your pockets lighter and occasionally your conscience superficially clearer. And as for sacrifice, I don't recall you mentioning having done a single thing in defense of preserving network neutrality or to improve any of the other problems you are so quick to point out about the United States. You criticize the actions of others, yet do nothing yourself except sit around complaining - hardly a respectable position. I posted a link to the petition to make others on this forum aware of an important issue and to encourage them to take action. Signing the petition is the first step. Writing letters and phoning one's congressional representatives are further important actions which should be taken to assure that one's voice is heard and one's opinion is considered. So far, you have done none of that. Bitching about the effectiveness of civic action while advocating violence as a solution to nonviolent political problems is unproductive and juvenile. Actually do something instead of jumping up on your cynical, irresponsible soapbox of inaction and bemoaning the state of things which you are unwilling to expend the effort to change.

My prediction for the next 5-10 years, and I'll wager a months salary on it:
(this is not unfounded america-bashing, either, purely third party observations)

America
Internet hosting and routing in america will be split down into numerous chunks

You will have the crappy public access areas
Each of these chunks will be owned exclusively by corporate entities, with adverts between page loads, heavy censorship on the content viewable, and navigation is easily trackable

The private areas will resemble the net as it is today, however these will be subject to paid subscriptions.

Europe
As for Europe as a whole, I don't know
my gut feeling is that the net will stay pretty much as it is,
but communication to and from the american servers will become troublesome

could be wrong, but I reckon we're set for an america vs. europe stand-off

inside Europe, there could be problems
We (the UK) while being bound by the european initiatives and standards, will try to emulate what the US is doing, with the whole thing being publically funded

The french will not accept anything from brussels, they will want their own slightly different proprietary system

I dunno, I hope I'm wrong

mongreloctopus: Get some maturity before you try to participate in worthwhile discussions.

And sad as it is, I think Ynot is probably correct, at least if things continue along the same course.