Thread: 3Guys1Hammer

Not to judge, or anything, but the same arguments are often used on the issue of child pornography.

You're completely wrong.
With child pornography there are victims, and it is actively happening when it can be prevented. People go out, kidnap children, or in some cases take their own, and sexually abuse them for the sole purpose of filming and distributing. While I watch videos of things that happen to have been caught on tape that depict CASUALTIES, with exception of course for executions. And even then, it's not nearly the same.

Your argument is very invalid and illogical.

It's like saying that if you enjoy eating beef, you're the same as someone brutally clubbing baby seal to death for sport.
Both preventable? Maybe. Both the same? Not at all.

A person who watches gore =/= A pedophile

Your argument is invalid.

edit:

I'll gve you a chance anyways...

Please explain to me the logic behind that argument. In what way is watching gore the same as watching child pornography. Morally, ethically etc.

edit2:

I also challenge anyone else to explain Maeni's argument.

Tee hee.

Well if you want me to.
Now, images and videos of accidents are less touched by my argument. But I'll see what I can do.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

You're completely wrong.
With child pornography there are victims, and it is actively happening when it can be prevented.

With murder videos there are definitely victims, and murder also happens actively and can also be prevented. (Well it can be prevented just as much as child sex abuse, it's hard to stop it, and we, as humans are nowhere near actually preventing such things. As you yourself said, the videos will be filmed regardless of them being watched, and the 'events' will happen regardless of being filmed. This goes for both child pornography and murder.)

People go out, kidnap children, or in some cases take their own, and sexually abuse them for the sole purpose of filming and distributing. While I watch videos of things that happen to have been caught on tape that depict CASUALTIES, with exception of course for executions. And even then, it's not nearly the same.

How do you know why they do what they do and whether they do it for 'the sole purpose of filming and distributing"? I'm not sure what else I can be arguing against, because you didn't give any reasons why it isn't nearly the same.
EDIT: It also seems that filming the events was a big motivational point in what those guys the OP is talking about was doing. I could argue that they killed all those people for the sole purpose of filming (and distributing? ) the murders they committed.
Why is it alright to watch that?
And why is it not alright to watch child pornography, then?

It's like saying that if you enjoy eating beef, you're the same as someone brutally clubbing baby seal to death for sport.
Both preventable? Maybe. Both the same? Not at all.

I really don't know how you reached that conclusion : / Sorry.
It's more like saying that if you enjoy watching seals getting clubbed to death in videos, you might aswell have been enjoying watching videos of monkeys, ducks, dogs and other animals being clubbed to death. Sometimes even humans. Sometimes even children.

Please explain to me the logic behind that argument. In what way is watching gore the same as watching child pornography. Morally, ethically etc.

You're enjoying looking at someone else's pain.
Look, I'm not trying to insult you or say that you are a pedophile. I'm saying you're a hypocrite if you take it so lightly how you enjoy seeing people die in brutal and painful ways, yet your argument against child pornography is that there are victims.
To finnish my last sentence, could you clear up what you mean by ", and it is actively happening when it can be prevented."? Murder doesn't happen actively? Murder can't be prevented?

But this is quite off-topic. Maybe we shouldn't be discussing this xD

I watch very few murder videoa, like I said the bulk of videos I watch are of accidents... which contain casualties.

really don't know how you reached that conclusion : / Sorry.

I reached that conclusion because gore videos aren't even on the same caliber as CP.

I kind of see where you're trying to come from, and I see why you'd think that but I still disagree.

You're enjoying looking at someone else's pain.

Why do you assume it's the pain I enjoy? And also, you don't even know in what way I enjoy the videos.

Look, I'm not trying to insult you or say that you are a pedophile.

Thanks.

I'm saying you're a hypocrite if you take it so lightly how you enjoy seeing people die in brutal and painful ways, yet your argument against child pornography is that there are victims.

With CP it is huge underground business with tens of thousands of busts a year, and every year thousands of children are purposely sexual abused and exploited and then filmed with the INTENT (not necessarily sole purpose) of distributing it. Another thing, it is extremely against the law. How is that at all the same as having security camera, bystander, hidden camera, and military camera footage of gory stuff. Videos of the US military killing insurgents, a video of a car crash, a video of someone jumping off a building, even a video of a man being beheaded. None of those are anywhere close to what CP is. None of these, even the beheading propaganda videos, are the same as what goes on with CP.

Like I said before, I mostly watch casualties. While there are no casualties with CP, only victims.

Now, with Gore videos. There's CCTV cameras capturing car accidents, attacks etc. There's bystanders with cell phone cameras capturing stuff. And then the occasional execution video.

I still don't see how you can take two oh so different things, and claim that they're remotely the same. CP is an issue of ethics, while gore videos is more so an issue of morals. It is unethical to sexual exploit/abuse a child for entertainment/sexual purposes. While it is considered by some to be morally wrong to routinely observe death.

You can go on believing that a person who watches gore is as bad or the same as a person who watches CP, but for me specifically I assure you that's not the case. CP is IMO the lowest anyone can go, both watching or participating in it. I'd sooner let a serial killer sleep in the same room as me than a pedo.

Also, with gore videos it isn't a huge business where there's constant trading and moving around of videos. Plus it's not the same type of preventable as CP. Gore videos are mostly of accidents. With gore videos, it's more the content than anyting that can be prevented. While with CP everything... the filming, the act, the intent, the content... everything must be prevented.

The content of gore videos could be prevented if seatbelts were worn, if you didn't drink and drive, if you didn't choose to fight, if the firefighters got there a little sooner.

Now sure, you can say they're both preventable... but not in the same way. Each gore video is unique, has it's own story, and it's own context. You can't say the same for CP. It all intentional, all filmed, done all the time. How do you prevent CP? Explain to me how CP and gore videos are similar as far as preventability.

99% of the time, whoever caught a gory scene on tape didn't go out in the morning thinking "I'm going to film a man stab is wife 70 times today!" or "I'll see a man commit suicide, film it, and put it on the internet for other's enjoyment!"

Can you say that about CP? From the start they know what they're doing, and know it's wrong.

Yeah, if you only talk about accidents, I'll stand down and surrender.
But with these 3guys1hammer guys and similar cases, my arguments are more valid :p

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

Why do you assume it's the pain I enjoy? And also, you don't even know in what way I enjoy the videos.

But you do enjoy them, and the videos are of people in severe pain.

With CP it is huge underground business with tens of thousands of busts a year, and every year thousands of children are purposely sexual abused and exploited and then filmed with the INTENT (not necessarily sole purpose) of distributing it.

Yeah, well, but what you're talking about are those rings they always talk about, right? A group of people who molest several children and share the child pornography between each others. Obviously it is wrong for them to be participating, as they are not just looking at child pornography, but are actively involved in the creation and distributing it between the members of this group. I don't think there is a single group out there that does all that to distribute it to the internet. They create it for themselves. Hence the term "ring". Someone who just watches cp doesn't have to be part of something like that.

And sure, the law is on your side.

I still don't see how you can take two oh so different things, and claim that they're remotely the same. CP is an issue of ethics, while gore videos is more so an issue of morals. It is unethical to sexual exploit/abuse a child for entertainment/sexual purposes. While it is considered by some to be morally wrong to routinely observe death.

I've never really understood the difference between ethics and morals. But why are you suddenly talking about sexual exploitation vs. watching gore videos? We're talking about routinely observing sexual exploitation versus routinely observing death.

You can go on believing that a person who watches gore is as bad or the same as a person who watches CP, but for me specifically I assure you that's not the case. CP is IMO the lowest anyone can go, both watching or participating in it. I'd sooner let a serial killer sleep in the same room as me than a pedo.

There was no need for that. I've watched loads of gore videos, too. In fact, I've watched way more than I feel comfortable with, as I am now usually completely immune to the horrors you sometimes see. I'm not accusing anyone of being bad. I'm simply saying that I think it is hypocritical to accept one but not the other. It's either accept both, or accept none. But clearly, we disagree.

I think the main point that StrangeDreamsGuy and Maeni are missing here is that enjoying videos of gore/rape/murder/etc. is a whole world of difference from simply being interested in/fascinated with the videos. I seriously doubt that mindwanderer is grinning from ear to ear after watching these vids, saying "Ah, what a feel-good vid! Now I'm gonna just finish raping this ten year old girl, read another chapter of Mein Kampf, shoot a puppy and call it a night!"

I, for one, can spend hours reading up on Wikipedia articles about serial killers and school massacres. Does that mean I enjoy the fact that tons of innocent people died in those incidents? No. I challenge anyone here to prove that fascination with the macabre and morbid necessarily equates to having psychopathic tendencies. (This means you, Maeni. Prove me wrong.)

Originally Posted by Lëzen

"Ah, what a feel-good vid! Now I'm gonna just finish raping this ten year old girl, read another chapter of Mein Kampf, shoot a puppy and call it a night!"

Hahaha, nice.
Anyways, no, I wasn't implying that at all. I think I feel quite the same as what you're otherwise describing. It's just a sort of morbid fascination and/or curiosity.
EDIT: As I said before, I'm not saying he's a bad person at all. I'm just basically saying that if he feels that it is OK to watch these videos, he should also feel that watching CP is OK too, otherwise it would be hypocritical, I think.

Originally Posted by Lëzen

I think the main point that StrangeDreamsGuy and Maeni are missing here is that enjoying videos of gore/rape/murder/etc. is a whole world of difference from simply being interested in/fascinated with the videos. I seriously doubt that mindwanderer is grinning from ear to ear after watching these vids, saying "Ah, what a feel-good vid! Now I'm gonna just finish raping this ten year old girl, read another chapter of Mein Kampf, shoot a puppy and call it a night!"

I, for one, can spend hours reading up on Wikipedia articles about serial killers and school massacres. Does that mean I enjoy the fact that tons of innocent people died in those incidents? No. I challenge anyone here to prove that fascination with the macabre and morbid necessarily equates to having psychopathic tendencies. (This means you, Maeni. Prove me wrong.)

Well put. Enjoyment might be the wrong word. Or maybe it isn't, depending on what type of enjoyment is being talked about. Some people enjoy being spooked or watching scary movies...

More than anything I'm fascinated with the video... like a hyperactive morbid curiosity. I will, however, admit that I've been thoroughly desensitized now. the only reason I say that I "enjoy" is because I keep on going back to them... and perhaps I'm a glutton for mental agony... or I just enjoy being grossed our or fulfilling curiosities.

Also, if you ask any of my friends or family (which you can't, because this is the internet and you don't know me) they'd say I'm a really balanced guy. I'm happily realistic, which I attribute to my awareness of the state of humankind (thanks to gore videos).

I don't know... I agree with Maeni if you're refering to people who wholely enjoy the videos on some deep level and perhaps begin fantasizing about the scenarios. But that doesn't apply to me.

I'm just basically saying that if he feels that it is OK to watch these videos, he should also feel that watching CP is OK too, otherwise it would be hypocritical, I think.

Again, I completely disagree. That's like saying if you're ok with the slaughter of cows for eating, you have to be ok with the ritual torture of puppies. On two completely different levels.

To say that you HAVE to be ok with both, or ok with neither is incredibly one sided and incredibly stupid IMO. That's not to say that you're stupid... but what you said is stupid.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

That's like saying if you're ok with the slaughter of cows for eating, you have to be ok with the ritual torture of puppies.

In that example, one of them is used to make food, which we need. In what we are talking about, none of it is actually necessary at all. Bad example.

I'm signing out of this discussion. I feel weak...

Originally Posted by Maeni

In that example, one of them is used to make food, which we need. In what we are talking about, none of it is actually necessary at all. Bad example.

I'm signing out of this discussion. I feel weak...

That's not the point, the point is that they're are so far removed from each and on such a different level that it's rediculous to say that it's hypocritical to be ok with one and not the other.

Gore is here * Eating beef is here
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
CP is way down here* Ritual torture of cuddly fuzzy things is here

See how they're on a different level?

Like i said, I kind of see where you're coming from... but I simply can not see it your way.

If you're okay with gore you have to be okay with sexual abuse of children?

Right.

What if someone watches CP, mindwanderer, not because they are stimulated by it, but because of some psychological curiosity? That is, they don't really understand the mind-set of the rapist and so they view tons of CP videos to 'better understand' the world and people. After a while, they don't really know why they keep watching the videos. They just keep getting drawn back to them. They still don't get hard on it, but they watch them anyway. Theoretically, how would that be any different than watching murder videos for the reasons that you have?

Gore is here * Eating beef is here
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
CP is way down here* Ritual torture of cuddly fuzzy things is here* Slowly beating a guys face in with a hammer is here

Originally Posted by spockman

What if someone watches CP, mindwanderer, not because they are stimulated by it, but because of some psychological curiosity? That is, they don't really understand the mind-set of the rapist and so they view tons of CP videos to 'better understand' the world and people. After a while, they don't really know why they keep watching the videos. They just keep getting drawn back to them. They still don't get hard on it, but they watch them anyway. Theoretically, how would that be any different than watching murder videos for the reasons that you have?

Other than one being extremely illegal, and extremely twisted/depraved... while the other is completely legal and naturally occuring? I don't know.

Pedophilia is illegal and considered absolutely terrible and depraved... whereby just watching CP you are, in at least some small way, supporting the production and distribution of CP. While gore is completely legal, and although opinions can differ, it is understood that morbid curiosity is a natural healthy occurence. And it's not like the more videos of gore that are watched and downloaded, that more are made. Like i said before, 99% of the videos are accidental videos catching accidental events. While CP is actively produced and distributed.

Anyways, we're not really getting anywhere with this discussion. We all know each others opinions, and none of us are gonna budge... so it's a stalemate!

Interesting discussions none the less.

Here is the main difference between child porn and gore videos:

Child porn is something meant to give the viewer sexual pleasure while watching. Gore videos are watched due to morbid fascintaion (with the exception of sadists). However, the point cannot be made that either of these is less disgusting than the other, that comes down to a matter of opinion.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

Other than one being extremely illegal, and extremely twisted/depraved... while the other is completely legal and naturally occuring? I don't know.

Pedophilia is illegal and considered absolutely terrible and depraved... whereby just watching CP you are, in at least some small way, supporting the production and distribution of CP. While gore is completely legal, and although opinions can differ, it is understood that morbid curiosity is a natural healthy occurence. And it's not like the more videos of gore that are watched and downloaded, that more are made. Like i said before, 99% of the videos are accidental videos catching accidental events. While CP is actively produced and distributed.

Anyways, we're not really getting anywhere with this discussion. We all know each others opinions, and none of us are gonna budge... so it's a stalemate!

Interesting discussions none the less.

Oh, no, not gore videos like a video of a guy getting creamed by a truck or something. I am talking about videos like the one in the thread title.

You know, i just seen the video...actually i only looked at about 5 to 6 seconds worth, i didn't want to see more. This is..twisted.....what's even more twisted is people watching the whole thing, and even downloading it.

Shit like this makes me lose faith in the human race all together. What exactly were their motives and what did they have to say.

Makes me think the joker is actually right...people are already on the verge of madness...all it takes is a little push.

What bothers me is the people who says this "doesn't" bother them....like their already desensitized to it. ALl i have to say is that if this video doesn't bother you..your are not human, you have lost your soul already.
and emotion.

Makes me think the joker is actually right...people are already on the verge of madness...all it takes is a little push.

Couldn't agree more.

What bothers me is the people who says this "doesn't" bother them....like their already desensitized to it. ALl i have to say is that if this video doesn't bother you..your are not human, you have lost your soul already. and emotion.

Hahahahaa! AAAAHHAHAHAHAHA! Sure. Why should it bother me? Stuff like this happens everyday, all the time. Every second of everyday someone is dying, in agony, being tortured or maimed. What's the use of being bothered by it?

Accept it.

Accept it or do something about it. I'm accepting it... what will you do?

You sure as hell won't do anything about it.

You're aren't helping this kind of stuff anymore than I am.

What good is there to be bothered by something like this? To be depressed and disguisted all day everyday knowing what's going on in the world?

Being bothered by stuff like this doesn't bring anybody back, it is a salve to no man, woman or child. How much better off would the world be if everyone was disquisted and bothered by things like this that happen everyday? What difference does it make whether I laugh or cry? None.

Get off your goddamn high horses and lower yourself from the pedestal that you stand on. You're no better than me, no different than me. Don't try and act all morally correct, like every little thing in the world makes your heart drop.

You're not doing anymore for this slaughterhouse of a world than I am. Your tears and vomit don't dull blades, plug barrels, or put out fires.

Remember this the next time you go and judge someone like me. You make no more difference to this place than I do, and nobody cares who or what you cry for.

edit:

Save your tears. They're better off as sweat or piss.

edit2:

Better off without my soul anyways. All it was doing was giving me frostbite!

This thread is turning into a revolution.

Lol

Originally Posted by Lëzen

I seriously doubt that mindwanderer is grinning from ear to ear after watching these vids, saying "Ah, what a feel-good vid! Now I'm gonna just finish raping this ten year old girl, read another chapter of Mein Kampf, shoot a puppy and call it a night!"

He probably is, though. lol Joke

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

Couldn't agree more.

Hahahahaa! AAAAHHAHAHAHAHA! Sure. Why should it bother me? Stuff like this happens everyday, all the time. Every second of everyday someone is dying, in agony, being tortured or maimed. What's the use of being bothered by it?

Accept it.

Accept it or do something about it. I'm accepting it... what will you do?

You sure as hell won't do anything about it.

You're aren't helping this kind of stuff anymore than I am.

What good is there to be bothered by something like this? To be depressed and disguisted all day everyday knowing what's going on in the world?

Being bothered by stuff like this doesn't bring anybody back, it is a salve to no man, woman or child. How much better off would the world be if everyone was disquisted and bothered by things like this that happen everyday? What difference does it make whether I laugh or cry? None.

Get off your goddamn high horses and lower yourself from the pedestal that you stand on. You're no better than me, no different than me. Don't try and act all morally correct, like every little thing in the world makes your heart drop.

You're not doing anymore for this slaughterhouse of a world than I am. Your tears and vomit don't dull blades, plug barrels, or put out fires.

Remember this the next time you go and judge someone like me. You make no more difference to this place than I do, and nobody cares who or what you cry for.

edit:

Save your tears. They're better off as sweat or piss.

edit2:

Better off without my soul anyways. All it was doing was giving me frostbite!

If everyone was bothered by this kind of thing, it wouldn't happen nearly as often.

At any rate, all of those same arguments can be applied to people who watch CP. So someone could say to 'get off your high horse and stop condemning them' to people who are bothered by child rape. I mean, this could be used to defend the purchasing of Bacha Bazi tapes, (human trafficking.)

Originally Posted by spockman

If everyone was bothered by this kind of thing, it wouldn't happen nearly as often.

Evidently not, because it seems I'm the only one around that isn't bothered by it. That leaves a few billion people (plus or minus a few million) that are bothered by it.

At any rate, all of those same arguments can be applied to people who watch CP. So someone could say to 'get off your high horse and stop condemning them' to people who are bothered by child rape. I mean, this could be used to defend the purchasing of Bacha Bazi tapes, (human trafficking.)

You still think I'm talking about snuff tapes and murder tapes. I'm talking about ACCIDENTS damn it. Well... and suicides.

But seriously... if you aren't bothered by child rape then you're practically endorsing it.
However, it isn't the same for not being bothered by gore. Just because I watch gory videos doesn't mean I endorse car accidents, suicides, building fires etc. I love people, and very few people deserve the deaths and pains that are depicted in many gore videos.

this is just a bunch of misunderstandings and a big tornado of confusion.

edit:

My argument is that too many people sit around and piss and whine about cutting down the rainforests, genocide, government corruption etc... yet they don't take initiative to do anything about it (most of them). I however, happen not to be bothered by the sight of terrible attrocities and gore and whatnot. Again, that in no way means I endorse them or wouldn't stop them from happening if I had the chance. But the fact is no difference is made whether I sit at a computer and jerk off to gory videos while laughing my ass of, ot if I sit there thinking "Oh what poors souls I feel so bad for them"

The dead can't hear laughter or crying and can't see grins or tears.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

Evidently not, because it seems I'm the only one around that isn't bothered by it. That leaves a few billion people (plus or minus a few million) that are bothered by it.


You still think I'm talking about snuff tapes and murder tapes. I'm talking about ACCIDENTS damn it. Well... and suicides.

But seriously... if you aren't bothered by child rape then you're practically endorsing it.
However, it isn't the same for not being bothered by gore. Just because I watch gory videos doesn't mean I endorse car accidents, suicides, building fires etc. I love people, and very few people deserve the deaths and pains that are depicted in many gore videos.

this is just a bunch of misunderstandings and a big tornado of confusion.

edit:

My argument is that too many people sit around and piss and whine about cutting down the rainforests, genocide, government corruption etc... yet they don't take initiative to do anything about it (most of them). I however, happen not to be bothered by the sight of terrible attrocities and gore and whatnot. Again, that in no way means I endorse them or wouldn't stop them from happening if I had the chance. But the fact is no difference is made whether I sit at a computer and jerk off to gory videos while laughing my ass of, ot if I sit there thinking "Oh what poors souls I feel so bad for them"

The dead can't hear laughter or crying and can't see grins or tears.

I understand that you are mainly talking about accidental death films, (though you have admitted to watching a few murder films.) I am not talking about the accidental ones. The Op is not either. And whatever you meant to be debating against in your above arguments, I am simply stating that one should be careful to apply that line of reasoning since it can apply to many terrible things. So that point still stands.

Originally Posted by spockman

I understand that you are mainly talking about accidental death films, (though you have admitted to watching a few murder films.) I am not talking about the accidental ones. The Op is not either. And whatever you meant to be debating against in your above arguments, I am simply stating that one should be careful to apply that line of reasoning since it can apply to many terrible things. So that point still stands.

Agreed.