Best way to treat Calea Zacatechichi?

**Caboose128** · 05-11-2013 02:11 AM

Seeming as this herb used to be used by the Indians as a kind of "sacred rite" type of thing, I'm wondering if this is really something I should start using regularly. For those with experience with this plant, if used multiple times in a row does it sort of lose it's effectiveness? I'm wondering if it's something I should only use for special occasions, so I don't become tolerant to it. Is there tolerance with this? I've read from a couple other people on other forums that it has a reverse-tolerance, but so little is known about the herb that it's hard to find anything concrete.

Another question I have is about the dosing. Most sites I go to state "a handful of the dried herb", but that's incredibly vague. I have vegetarian gel caps with 600mg in each. What would you guys say is a proper dose? Should I keep increasing the dose every night or should I just stay pretty steady? My dreams have been lacking recently, so I'm hoping this will kick start things a bit!

**Voldmer** · 05-12-2013 02:30 PM

Everybodys biochemistry is unique, so there are likely many different views of Calea, but my personal experiences are as follows:

1. It is very bitter. Bitter to the extent, that I have no reference point for it. It seems all the bitternes in the world is contained within it.
2. Because of the bitternes, I generally avoid drinking an infusion of it (though with the aid of a straw, stuck far into the throat, the bitternes at least can avoid the front of the tongue.
3. It can be ingested raw, for example mixed up with yoghurt or tomato juice (but eat/drink fast, because the bitternes will start to spill over into the medium.
4. A mouthwash and a good scrubbing with toothpaste of the tongue and other contaminated parts will greatly help the bitter aftertaste go away. Otherwise it just lingers and lingers. Fresh dates seem to work wonders in scrubbing the throat.
5. I have never gone beyond 4 tsp. dry, chopped material (equals 2.3 grams). The more, the merrier (dreaming-wise), it appears to me.
6. It seems to disturb deep sleep, which means that I do not feel fully rested in the morning, unless I get an extra couple of hours sleep. For this reason, it's weekend-use only, for me.
7. Dreams seem to slip from one to the next in a rather seemless way.
8. Chance of lucidity is slightly elevated.

My guess is, that you will feel little to no effect with less than 3 gel caps, but it is normally a good rule to work your way up slowly.

All in all, I am not a fan of Calea. For me, green tea (and other caffeine-containing herbs) and mugwort are distinctly preferable.

**Sirocco** · 05-12-2013 03:00 PM

It is bitter. Very bitter. Vile. If you can, just mix the dry leaf with some water, swirl it around until it gets mixed nicely, and just ingest it all. Quite possibly one of the most vile substances I have ever experimented with; only Siniguichi (USELESS!) and Damiana (Just good for relaxing a bit) surpass the bitterness of Calea Zacatechichi, with Siniguichi lingering in the palate for quite a while after drinking the tea, and Damiana being quite caustic, and corrosive.

You can smoke it, but I am not sure how soon before sleep you need to do this, or how effective it will be for you. I've been able to smoke some after waking after 5 hrs, and then going back to bed, with pretty profound effects, although I'm not sure if it was placebo or not.
I then proceeded to have the same dream twice, but from different points of view, which was quite interesting; there were various nuances and perspectives that changed depending on whose dream it was; it was the same plot, same story, just through the eyes of different characters. Then another dream occurred where the two characters met, and another series of dreams occurred after they had shared their experiences, and had gone through a series of flashbacks. The post-flashback dreams involved the characters trading places, and experiencing their lives through the perspectives of the other. It was an interesting, sort of introspective type of dream. This seems to be a common theme in some of the dreams I've had lately; Instead of being lucid or present, I am sort of a transcendental being, who creates characters, and makes them go through all sorts of introspective quests and the like. Once again, YMMV. I've noticed common threads when it comes to dreams induced by various substances, and this sort of transcendental perspective seems to happen when I've done Calea. I haven't done any in a while, so maybe one of these days, I'll give it another go, and post about it.

**Caboose128** · 07-19-2013 04:02 AM

Any news on this topic? I'm surprised about the lack of information floating around about it on the internet considering it's supposed to be #1 for drugs/supplements that aid in lucid dreaming..

**DarkFlatTop** · 07-25-2013 05:05 AM

check out erowid, they have lots of information on it.

As for everyone who says its bitter there is a "sweet" variety (only very slightly bitter). I have one in my possession. Unfortunately it taste somewhat like egg when fresh, and doesn't seem to work aswell fresh either. So i dry it, and either chew it or make tea with it. For me it definitely works but i wouldn't say its a direct path to lucidity. In my experiece it calms you (with no depressive bodily effects) and lets you be more aware, both awake and in dreams; which i suppose would make it easier to notice anything out of place.

Dreams are also remembered in more detail than usual.