Thread: Entada Rheedii project

Originally Posted by Voldmer

Tonight I will start a week long project of ingesting a 100:1 extract of Entada Rheedii aka African dream herb (they are actually huge beans, you may have seen photo's of them). The plan is to take it half an hour, or so, before bedtime. The dosage is really uncertain, but initially I will probably aim for about 30 mg taken orally.

I may update this frequently, but maybe not. At the very least I will update after the end of the project.

The expected result is a somewhat meditative state, hypnagogia (which I do not normally have), and much increased vividness in dreams. Since I have no suitable equipment to test the extract (which I bought from a German retailer specializing in out-there herbs), I do not know anything about the product's quality. The retailer has a good reputation, but was previously unknown to me.

I am quite excited about this; Entada Rheedii is one of few dream herbs that I have never tried before.

How safe is the herb? I've never heard of it.

Looking forward to your results.

Night 1:

• Dosage: 40 mg (approx.)
• Sleep: Somewhat better than baseline
• Dreaming: Normal
• Unusual: Woke up early on, feeling rather hot, even though my bedroom was fairly cool
• Remarks: The powder was not whitish, as I had expected, but with a definite brownish colour. I suspect it contains also material from the hard shell, inside which the white flesh resides. I have never heard about these shells being used for ingesting (they are very hard). Also, I ate a carrot shortly before ingesting the powder.

Originally Posted by Hilary

How safe is the herb? I've never heard of it.

Looking forward to your results.

I have not heard nor read any trustworthy warnings about it (actually, no warnings at all). It is a traditional dreaming herb in parts of Africa.

Originally Posted by Voldmer

Night 1:

• Dosage: 40 mg (approx.)
• Sleep: Somewhat better than baseline
• Dreaming: Normal
• Unusual: Woke up early on, feeling rather hot, even though my bedroom was fairly cool
• Remarks: The powder was not whitish, as I had expected, but with a definite brownish colour. I suspect it contains also material from the hard shell, inside which the white flesh resides. I have never heard about these shells being used for ingesting (they are very hard). Also, I ate a carrot shortly before ingesting the powder.

I have not heard nor read any trustworthy warnings about it (actually, no warnings at all). It is a traditional dreaming herb in parts of Africa.

If there aren't any trustworthy warnings about it- I mean I wouldn't try this unless I would talk your primary care physician (PCP) since you don't know how this will effect you in the long run. We will have to do our own research.

Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer

If there aren't any trustworthy warnings about it- I mean I wouldn't try this unless I would talk your primary care physician (PCP) since you don't know how this will effect you in the long run. We will have to do our own research.

I don't know how it is elsewhere, but here in Denmark the number of physicians who know about african dream herbs, and their effects on the human body, can probably be counted on the fingers of an amputated hand. In other words, yes, whatever research must be done, we will have to do it ourselves. Academia is not going to do it, the pharmaceutical industry is not going to do it, and that pretty much makes it DIY projects. And that's ok, after all we are not starting from scratch, there is tradition to be guided by.

But as for Entada Rheedii, I don't want to do a long-term daily intake of it. As far as I am aware, there are not records on the internet of such a project having been done, and a week-long study is all I commit to for the time being. (Later I have some Silene Capensis to work with, and that will also be interesting for me, although I do have much experience with that plant already).

I still would use any supplements with caution. Also, if you’re taking medications or have any preexisting health conditions or Underlining, it may interact with the Medications... Children, adolescents, and pregnant or breastfeeding people should avoid taking African dream BEAN as a precaution. (IMO)
Where are you getting information about the tradition?

Where did you first hear of the Entada rheedii?

Originally Posted by HumbleDreamer

I still would use any supplements with caution. Also, if you’re taking medications or have any preexisting health conditions or Underlining, it may interact with the Medications... Children, adolescents, and pregnant or breastfeeding people should avoid taking African dream root as a precaution. (IMO)
Where are you getting information about the tradition?

Where did you first hear of the Entada rheedii?

It's one of the first things you encounter when you look into zulu shamanism, and african dream work. Ethnobotanical stores always stock this. Probably Entada Rheedii is more main stream than many others (Silene Capensis, Synaptolepis Kirkii, etc.) because it is found over a large geographical area (the beans famously float on the seas, far and wide). By the way, I'm in good health, not taking any medicine, male, and somewhat of a connoisseur of fine supplements (starting out with herbs decades ago, but these days I rely more on amino acids).

But caution when taking supplements is indispensable (as it is quite generally in life).

Originally Posted by Voldmer

But caution when taking supplements is indispensable (as it is quite generally in life).

This is what it looks like? As the bean seed. One person I saw online said that it can also cause both Vivid Dreams and Nightmares. What would it do to someone who is already remembering a good chunk of their dreams... Including their nightmares?

Nice illustrative video! I think the seeds come in different sizes, but the appearance, as far as shape and colour is concerned, is fairly consistent.

I expect the effect quite generally will be increased vividness, whether the dream itself is nice, or frightening. However, I believe that with increased vividness comes increased awareness, and therefore increased chance of lucidity. Nonetheless, I would not suggest this type of dream enhancer to anyone with recurring nightmares.

Very interesting. I may want to try this one day as well. I will be joining you in the experimentation department soon (as soon as summer break hits) with the sunflower lecithin.

Originally Posted by Voldmer

It's one of the first things you encounter when you look into zulu shamanism, and african dream work. Ethnobotanical stores always stock this. Probably Entada Rheedii is more main stream than many others (Silene Capensis, Synaptolepis Kirkii, etc.) because it is found over a large geographical area (the beans famously float on the seas, far and wide). By the way, I'm in good health, not taking any medicine, male, and somewhat of a connoisseur of fine supplements (starting out with herbs decades ago, but these days I rely more on amino acids).

I grew up next to a Zulu village. They have an interesting myth related to sleep about the Tokoloshe, a dwarf-like creature that would kill you in your sleep. To this day most people sleep with a few bricks beneath each leg of one's bed to keep the Tokoloshe away!

The advent of the phantom Tokoloshe came about through Bantu folklore to explain why people inexplicably died while sleeping in their rondavels at night. Traditionally, these people slept on the floor on grass mats encircling a wood fire that kept them warm during sub-freezing cold winter nights on the highveld in the rarefied air. They never realized the fire was depleting the oxygen levels, leaving noxious carbon monoxide, which is heavier than pure air and sinks to the bottom. Eventually it was realized that anyone who happened to be sleeping in an elevated position escaped the deadly curse of Tokoloshe, which was described as a short man about hip high who randomly stole one's life in the night unless they were lifted to the height of their bed.

[Removed Link]

The Zulu's have the right idea (thereby being able to save their own lives). I think from now on I will refer to CO-poisoning as being attacked by Tokoloshe. Sure, CO is shorter, but the Zulu word is more entertaining.

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Night 2:

• Dosage: 40 mg (approx.)
• Sleep: Somewhat better than baseline
• Dreaming: Two dreams of extraordinary length and level of detail (a bit mundane by my standards however).
• Unusual: Nothing.
• Remarks: I ate a small meal containing both carbohydrates, protein, and fat half an hour before ingesting the powder.

Hey guys.

Love this thread. Just a reminder that we can't post websites that reference/promote illegal drugs or their use (I know it wasn't directly related to the subject matter linked, but rather located elsewhere on that site). So that's why the link was removed. However, if you would like to share that link, you can do it via private message.

Keep on with this thread, and thanks guys for all of the great info!!

Ah, my bad! Sorry about that.

Night 3:

• Dosage: 35 mg (approx.)
• Sleep: Considerably better than baseline
• Dreaming: One long and detailed dream, and lots of tiny dreams. All in the later half of the night. It is as if dreams start more easily after a wake period ... "at the drop of a hat" comes to mind. The colours are very faint compared to baseline. Story lines clearly more mundane than normal.
• Unusual: Nothing
• Remarks: I ate a small meal containing both carbohydrates, protein, and fat shortly before ingesting the extract.

I am unsure how this thread ended up in "Beyond dreaming" where it clearly doesn't belong. I wanted to put it into "Lucid aids", where it does belong. Sorry about that!


EDIT (By Hilary):

Originally Posted by Voldmer

I am unsure how this thread ended up in "Beyond dreaming" where it clearly doesn't belong. I wanted to put it into "Lucid aids", where it does belong. Sorry about that!

Moved this for you.

Night 4:

• Dosage: 45 mg (approx.)
• Sleep: Much better than baseline
• Dreaming: One long and detailed dream in a foreign country (Italy, I believe). Again very subdued colours.
• Unusual: Nothing
• Remarks:Nothing.

In a Youtube video a modern day "nagual" talked about using a 50:1 extract of Entada Rheedii; he said the dosage to use was 500 mg. With my 100:1 extract that would then be 250 mg. In the light of this my dosages have been extremely low. I believe one seed contains about 25 g edible material, which would be matched by 250 mg of the 100:1 extract. For the remaining three nights of this experiment I will gradually increase the dosage.

@Hilary: thanks for moving the thread to the more appropriate location!

Night 5:

• Dosage: 80 mg (approx.)
• Sleep: Much better than baseline
• Dreaming: Quite a few dreams, but not very vivid. Still very subdued colours, but less trivial story lines than the last few days.
• Unusual: Nothing
• Remarks:Nothing.

So far I am not impressed by the dreaming enhancement, but it has turned out to be as good a sleep aid as any I have ever tried.

Night 6:

• Dosage: 140 mg (approx.)
• Sleep: Considerably better than baseline
• Dreaming: One long and detailed dream, that never really felt like it pertained to me. Instead it was as if I was participating in a role originated by someone else. It was full of animosity, and it was distinctly otherworldly. Not pleasant at all. Eventually I woke myself out of it - more than halfway by choice. Besides this, a lot of tiny dreams. Again, colour was generally absent.
• Unusual: Nothing
• Remarks:Nothing.

Night 7:

• Dosage: 240 mg (approx.)
• Sleep: Somewhat better than baseline
• Dreaming: A few longish dreams (still only feeble colouring) with fairly regular story lines. Not very vivid.
• Unusual: Nothing
• Remarks:Nothing.

This concludes my experiment, although there will be one further update to inform whether baseline returns on the first night of not taking Entada Rheedii.

Night 8:

• Dosage: 0 mg
• Sleep: Somewhat better than baseline
• Dreaming: Some dreams. Distinctly not vivid. Don't recall anything about colouring.
• Unusual: Nothing
• Remarks:Nothing.

In conclusion to this week-long project I find that the 100:1 dry extract of Entada Rheedii, which I had obtained, did more to improve my sleep than my dreams. Interestingly, the best sleep happened on medium dosages of the extract. My dreams, by contrast, were not really enhanced as I had originally expected (and hoped). Instead they were deprived of their natural colours, and they tended to be unusually down-to-earth, much unlike my normal dreams which mostly take place in very strange worlds. Vividness was increased, however, but not by a lot.

My feeling is that the extract was made not just from the white substance inside the been seeds, but also from the seeds' hard shell. I suspect this made the extract cheaper - and less powerful.

Given these results, I will probably wait a considerable amount of time before trying Entada Rheedii again. There are too many other interesting things to try first.