Thread: Galantamine + Choline

Alright, I'll have to give that a try. I'm going to take the rest of the week off from the g&c. The most I do is two days in a row, I don't want a tolerance. Ohh and do I add that to my G&C

Originally Posted by SleepyKitty

Look into Alpha GPC. It has made the Galantamine combo much much stronger. I've noticed a huge difference on my ability to become lucid when not taking alpha gpc.

+1 Alpha GPC. Works quite well for me too.

Originally Posted by anderj101

+1 Alpha GPC. Works quite well for me too.

Well I ordered it, so it will be here friday. I've already had great success with the combo I have now, so I can't wait to see what the alpha gpc will do.

I've had some luck with Alpha-GPC on its own as a lucidity inducer. It's less reliable than the Galantamine + Choline / Alpha-GPC combo, but makes it much easier to get back to sleep.

I've been lucky so far because the G&C hasnt kept awake like it does for some. If it does keep me awake, I usually just go into sleep paralysis. I just wake up take the pills, and then fall back asleep. But last time I had a deild chain, I did my wbtb set my alarm for an hour later and then went to bed.

Well I had two short lived lucid last night with the combo. The first one was terrible. I felt drunk and had a hard time walking. I couldn't get out of the bathroom I was in haha. the second one I used visualization. Does anyone think that visualization works well with this stuff. Well I did that for mu second LD. I was laying in bed and it was almost time for me to get up, but I decided to try and visualize my hands rubbing my bedroom carpet. And then I saw my hands rubbing the carpet, but it faded quickly. So I tried again and once again, I saw my hands rubbing the carpet and it was clearier, bu the it faded again. So I tried one more tim and I visualized myself rubbing the carpet. This time it got much clearier and then my entire room showed up. So I got up and crawled to my door and pulles some blue tie that was stuck in between my doors. I got up and opened my door and decided to scream, "I'm dreaming" I then walked to my kitchen, and I wanted to make it to my backyard so badly, but for some reason I decided to open my real eyes. And they did. I did this after waking up from a dream and my visualization was amazing because I actaully started to feel my carpet. But I don't think the dream was stable enough because before I opened my door, I could still kind of feel my real body in bed.

Hi NrELAx,

Visualization can be very helpful in many different ways. I use it for my meditations when concentrating on an object for the purpose of steading the mind and banish all other toughs except the thought of the object itself. A couple of nights in a row , i have been using visualization and concentration on the throat chakra center and it helps me with having very vivid dreams. Do you meditate? If not you might want ot try that as well since it will help you with steading the mind and concentration. The mind is like a wild horse it takes time to tame in order to be able to use. If used when wild , it might trow you off on the ground and break your neck.

Originally Posted by NrElAx

Well I had two short lived lucid last night with the combo. The first one was terrible. I felt drunk and had a hard time walking. I couldn't get out of the bathroom I was in haha. the second one I used visualization. Does anyone think that visualization works well with this stuff. Well I did that for mu second LD. I was laying in bed and it was almost time for me to get up, but I decided to try and visualize my hands rubbing my bedroom carpet. And then I saw my hands rubbing the carpet, but it faded quickly. So I tried again and once again, I saw my hands rubbing the carpet and it was clearier, bu the it faded again. So I tried one more tim and I visualized myself rubbing the carpet. This time it got much clearier and then my entire room showed up. So I got up and crawled to my door and pulles some blue tie that was stuck in between my doors. I got up and opened my door and decided to scream, "I'm dreaming" I then walked to my kitchen, and I wanted to make it to my backyard so badly, but for some reason I decided to open my real eyes. And they did. I did this after waking up from a dream and my visualization was amazing because I actaully started to feel my carpet. But I don't think the dream was stable enough because before I opened my door, I could still kind of feel my real body in bed.

I used to meditate a lot when I first started try to lucid, but I kind of stopped. Maybe I should start up again.

I have had a number of OBEs and LDs over the past 4 years using taoist, yogic and zen techniques and was getting a bit frustrated with the one to six month gaps between them. Lately I had been having about 1 LD per month, but fairly short. Finally started investigating the supplements, read T.Y.'s book and bought "Lucid Dreaming" (G + Ch) from DreamAmins.com. The first time I took it, combining it with WBTB, nothing happened except for some increased vividness and some hypnogogic music, as well as the sense that I could step out of my body without actually being able to. I attributed this to possibly having tea late in evening, and not doing WBTB until 6 hours into sleep and having difficulty falling back asleep. Waited 4 days and tried again and WHOOSH, had a prolonged LD, probably the longest I've ever had, with good dream control and a really cool soundtrack. Did some experiments, and visual, auditory, and tactile sensations were as real as life if not moreso. Have to say, I had been skeptical about the whole supplement thing, but I became an instant believer. Not that I'm convinced that it's the best way to LD, but it's sure the best at my current level of skill. Waited another 4 days, and again WHOOSH, another prolonged LD. After that, decided to "expand my portfolio" and ordered some Alpha GPC, Huperzine A and Mucuna. Also have some 5-HTP. Will wait a bit as I'm taking a high dose NSAID for a temporary medical condition and not sure about whether there are potential interactions with the nootropics, but plan to continue the experiments later this week.

I agree with you that with the supplements one can achieve a much faster result and experience lucidity almost every other night as long as the supplements are taken. However, my problem comes the next day when i sit down for my meditation session. I feel like i lose my focus easily and my concentration is weak.
The other concern of mine is that the supplements/ lucid dreaming thing propels me to have an obsession with the whole matter and in case you are interested in taoism you probably know that reaching the way can not be done if any obsessions of the mind are present. All obsessions disturb the mind and disturb mind is oblivious mind.
What taoist practices have you done so far?

Originally Posted by IcarusWilder

I have had a number of OBEs and LDs over the past 4 years using taoist, yogic and zen techniques and was getting a bit frustrated with the one to six month gaps between them. Lately I had been having about 1 LD per month, but fairly short. Finally started investigating the supplements, read T.Y.'s book and bought "Lucid Dreaming" (G + Ch) from DreamAmins.com. The first time I took it, combining it with WBTB, nothing happened except for some increased vividness and some hypnogogic music, as well as the sense that I could step out of my body without actually being able to. I attributed this to possibly having tea late in evening, and not doing WBTB until 6 hours into sleep and having difficulty falling back asleep. Waited 4 days and tried again and WHOOSH, had a prolonged LD, probably the longest I've ever had, with good dream control and a really cool soundtrack. Did some experiments, and visual, auditory, and tactile sensations were as real as life if not moreso. Have to say, I had been skeptical about the whole supplement thing, but I became an instant believer. Not that I'm convinced that it's the best way to LD, but it's sure the best at my current level of skill. Waited another 4 days, and again WHOOSH, another prolonged LD. After that, decided to "expand my portfolio" and ordered some Alpha GPC, Huperzine A and Mucuna. Also have some 5-HTP. Will wait a bit as I'm taking a high dose NSAID for a temporary medical condition and not sure about whether there are potential interactions with the nootropics, but plan to continue the experiments later this week.

Interestingly I had a similar conversation with someone the other day about this. It seems to boil down to the immanent versus transcendent debate, "everyday mind" versus "cosmic consciousness," mindfulness versus the siddhis/supernormal perceptions/powers. I've practiced zen meditation in the Rinzai tradition, zen koans, mindfulness/open-awareness meditation and the Taoist microcosmic orbit (M.O.) in the tradition of Charles Luk's "Taoist Yoga." My most powerful OBE resulted from a combination of the M.O. with Zen Koans, but upon reflecting on the circumstances, it happened at 5:30 A.M. after waking up and doing the M.O. for a half hour, which really amounts to a WBTB, whatever one occupies the time with. I agree that one can become obsessed with the OBE or LD state, but the way I look at it, there are more meaningless things to be obsessed with. You're probably right that ultimately you need to let everything go, and paradoxically it was with that letting go that 3 years ago I found myself suspended in space listening to the music of the spheres. And yeah, I've been kind of obsessed with getting back there, so at least for the moment I'm going full speed ahead toward whatever Siddhis are beckoning, with the help of the supplements if necessary. The spiritual aspect of my practice is tending toward Kashmir Shaivism in the tradition of Swami Lakshmanjoo, with roots in that of Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta. I'm also exploring Vajrayana and the esoteric Taoist consciousness practice of the M.O. I've read some Mantak Chia as well, and he takes Taoist Yoga all the way, which is a little too far for me. I don't really do sitting meditation anymore, having now substituted "Dream Yoga" for waking body yoga or waking sitting meditation. The OBE / LD experience is so powerful, that I see meditation as a support for it rather than it as a support for or hinderance to meditation.

Hi,
Interesting... I have not had any experience with Taoist microcosmic orbit and the tradition which i follow is a bit different even though all the different ways eventually lead to the same direction. I guess it is important not to accept the way for the direction itself. I do mostly sitting meditation and yoga daily. Those practices have helped me with improving my concentration and distinguishing the thoughts from what I am.
Nisargadatta-- i read some time ago, and it completely shattered the ideas of my mind. I have a bunch of books of Mantak Chia, but i have not had a chance to read any yet. I am reading Cleary's book- Begging Taoism which i find very interesting.
Have you traveled anywhere for the purpose exploring your practices? Are you doing it on your own?

Originally Posted by IcarusWilder

Interestingly I had a similar conversation with someone the other day about this. It seems to boil down to the immanent versus transcendent debate, "everyday mind" versus "cosmic consciousness," mindfulness versus the siddhis/supernormal perceptions/powers. I've practiced zen meditation in the Rinzai tradition, zen koans, mindfulness/open-awareness meditation and the Taoist microcosmic orbit (M.O.) in the tradition of Charles Luk's "Taoist Yoga." My most powerful OBE resulted from a combination of the M.O. with Zen Koans, but upon reflecting on the circumstances, it happened at 5:30 A.M. after waking up and doing the M.O. for a half hour, which really amounts to a WBTB, whatever one occupies the time with. I agree that one can become obsessed with the OBE or LD state, but the way I look at it, there are more meaningless things to be obsessed with. You're probably right that ultimately you need to let everything go, and paradoxically it was with that letting go that 3 years ago I found myself suspended in space listening to the music of the spheres. And yeah, I've been kind of obsessed with getting back there, so at least for the moment I'm going full speed ahead toward whatever Siddhis are beckoning, with the help of the supplements if necessary. The spiritual aspect of my practice is tending toward Kashmir Shaivism in the tradition of Swami Lakshmanjoo, with roots in that of Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta. I'm also exploring Vajrayana and the esoteric Taoist consciousness practice of the M.O. I've read some Mantak Chia as well, and he takes Taoist Yoga all the way, which is a little too far for me. I don't really do sitting meditation anymore, having now substituted "Dream Yoga" for waking body yoga or waking sitting meditation. The OBE / LD experience is so powerful, that I see meditation as a support for it rather than it as a support for or hinderance to meditation.

Well I tried the alpha gpc with my g&c this morning. I couldn't fall back asleep though because I kept having stupd racing thoughts. But I evetually fell asleep and got lucid in a dream only long enough to do a nose pinch rc, but then woke up instantly after that. I'll try it again. Sometime this coming week. But I did have vivid dreams all night which sucked because I was in a car with a girl in one of the dreams and she ran a guy on a motorcycle over. I was freaking out, but luckely I woke up and it was a dream. Oh, and can someone tell me how much alpha gpc they use. I tried 600mg last night, so maybe next time I should just try 300mg.

Failure.

My first failure with GCT.

I took it after four hours of sleep during a WBTB. By a series of weird events instead of going to bed I ended up in the muddy parking lot of the ski resort hotel trying to stuff folding music stands into the trunk of my car. "What a waste of galantamine" I said. "I should be up in the hotel room sleeping and lucid dreaming". Of course I WAS dreaming. At home in my own bed. And not lucid. Hahaha.

Originally Posted by Acala

Failure.

My first failure with GCT.

I took it after four hours of sleep during a WBTB. By a series of weird events instead of going to bed I ended up in the muddy parking lot of the ski resort hotel trying to stuff folding music stands into the trunk of my car. "What a waste of galantamine" I said. "I should be up in the hotel room sleeping and lucid dreaming". Of course I WAS dreaming. At home in my own bed. And not lucid. Hahaha.

Haha I did the same thing last week. I was in a dream at some house and I was like, damn I'm wasting my galantamine right now. But everytime I take it, I seem to mention it in my dreams.

Originally Posted by NrElAx

Haha I did the same thing last week. I was in a dream at some house and I was like, damn I'm wasting my galantamine right now. But everytime I take it, I seem to mention it in my dreams.

Galantamine is the dream spice.

So I tried 4mg Galatamine, 500mg Choline, and 200mg l-theanine for the first time last night. I've been trying to WILD using the CAN-WILD technique for the past 4 weeks or so with only about 2 successful attempts. But this lucid aid...holy crap it was amazing. I went to bed at 11 and set my alarm for 3am. I got up, went to the bathroom, chilled for about 10 minutes then took the combo and laid in bed. I laid on my back and tried the counting method 1...I'm dreaming, 2...I'm dreaming, up to 10 then repeating. However, I was somewhat restless and was unable to sleep. What felt like an hour went by when the tired feeling hit me so I lay on my left side and started the counting method again. BAM SP hits with the most prominent effects I've had during SP. I can hear two men talking, which startles me out of it, but I'm soon back in and hearing their convo. I try talking and cant move my mouth or anything, which freaks me out once more, but I enter back in and I roll over and plop I'm standing in my living room to one of the most vivid and intense LD's I've had. In fact after that one ended I had another one right after. It was so great! Can't wait to try again this thursday.

At this point I'm mostly going solo, though I have been to a number of retreats, e.g., Zen, Mindfulness, Holotropic Breathwork, Western Mystery School, etc. My main practice is just Being and being aware of Being and Awareness of Being, plus MILD, WILD, VILD, the M.O from time to time, and now the supplements, and lots and lots of reading on the various spiritual, mystical, transpersonal and oneirological (and OBEological) traditions. I'm also looking into buying some EEG neurofeedback equipment, maybe the Emotive Headset and Research Edition of the Software Development Kit (the Kit comes with the advanced version of the headset).

I'm definitely with you on the "it was amazing." I've never tried hallucinogens due to concerns about safety, but with G, who needs to. It's like having a bottle of L with your own brain supplying the SD. Just hope the FDA doesn't start regulating it as is the tradition with potentially consciousness raising substances. Given its use in prescription form for Alzheimers, its use for lucid dreams could be considered "off-label use of a pharmaceutical for an unapproved indication" (despite the fact that it isn't being taken in its pharmaceutical form, and is being used in a much smaller dose, with a much reduced frequency). If the pharmaceutical companies and mainstream scientists were a little more -- ok, a lot more -- creative, rather than taking a uniquely curative approach to pharmacology they would branch out into "positive pharmacology" in the tradition of "positive psychology" and use their resources to make a bundle on marketing G and the other oneiro-supps themselves for lucid dreaming and other positive or even transpersonal purposes. Meanwhile, we can continue our grass-root scientific self-exploration on the downlow.

Yea it was rediculous how easy it was to get into sp the first few times I used it. I think they shouldn't label the pills lucid dreaming pills, but instead galantamine. That way no one will suspect it being used for something else.

Hey NrElAx, I usually go to bed between 10pm and 11pm and have my alarm for 2am or 3am. Anyway, I have to get up for work at 530AM; would the Galatamine/Choline/Theanine be to "heavy" for that early of a wake up?

Originally Posted by Cosmix

Hey NrElAx, I usually go to bed between 10pm and 11pm and have my alarm for 2am or 3am. Anyway, I have to get up for work at 530AM; would the Galatamine/Choline/Theanine be to "heavy" for that early of a wake up?

Are you asking if its a bad idea to take it if your getting up so early? If so, I mean for me, I don't get affected by this stuff when I wake up in the morning. So far, I've felt refreshed when I wake up. Everytime I take it though, I wake up after almost every dream, which so far has been a good thing because it gave me a deild chain. So if it doesn't affect you in the morning, then I think you'll be fine. But it is kind of close to the time that your waking up and I notice that this stuff always makes my body heavy for like two after after it kicks in. But maybe that could just be sp. I don't know if I answered your question right.

Yeah you did thanks. I'll give it a try tonight and see how it goes.

I might take it tomarrow morning too, but I took it sunday morning. But I started taking piracetam both sunday morning and this morning, so I don't know if its out of my system. But I hope all goes well cosmix, hopefully it doesn't make you feel crappy tomarrow.