Thread: Incubated, then Kicked Out

Hello,

I wanted to get a few opinions on what happened here in this dream. I have been reading Waggonner's book "Lucid Dreaming" and he talks about intelligent dream figures and talking to them in order to go/discover more about yourself. So, I had a dream about two months ago, semi-lucid, where I walked through a hanging tapestry and found myself in a new dream where I encountered God/Divine Dream Figure. I was not fully lucid or lucid enough to control myself, so I wasn't prepared. I decided I would incubate this dream again and use a door to turn my dream into a garden where I'd find God/Divine Dream Figure and ask "How can I more easily and frequently realize I'm dreaming while I'm dreaming?" (long I know)

So, I have a dream. I am on a train platform and I am very lucid. I find an elevator and walk towards it so that I could use it to change the dream. In doing so, there are two dream figures who start to chase me to stop me from getting in the elevator, but I beat them. I see floors 1-7, then a "G" which I assume is for "Garden". I go to the Garden Floor which is floor 8 and I eventually find the God/Divine Dream Figure. He has an assistance, just like in my last dream, except this time there are slight difference of course: both of them are men, in the previous dream the assistance was a woman. This time God was a white guy and the assistance was an Asian guy. Last time it was a black man and a black woman. He picked up his iPhone when he saw me and turned around so I flagged him down. He looked like he was going to be busy so I said "You know who I am and what I'm here for" lol. That got his attention and he put down his phone. So, before I asked my question I said "I thought you were a black guy?" to which he responded something like "Well, I am God. So if you could always point me out that wouldn't be very Godlike." I was like ... "Ok I see your point" and carried on. I asked my question "How can I more easily and frequently realize I'm dreaming while I'm dreaming?". I THOUGHT I said it perfectly, even when I think back I recall saying those exact words. I've been practicing this question for about a month waiting for my chance.

They both looked like they were pondering my question and the assistant alluded to me having said "Feel" or "feeling". So maybe I thought or perhaps even said something like, "How can I more easily and frequently feel that I'm dreaming while I'm dreaming?". God said "Well the way your question is worded ... um..." So I interrupt him and clairify, "How can I know?". They both ponder for a moment, then they both turn to look at me and right when our eyes meet I wake up back in my bed. Normally when I'm waking up from a lucid dream the scene gradually fades, even if quickly, but I haven't experienced like an ... oh I'm here then I'm not *poof*.

When I woke up I just had this overwhelming feeling that I got kick out somehow because ... well I don't know why. I read that sometimes your subconscous/unconscious will not answer the question you asked. I laughed at myself. Maybe my mind wants me to figure it out and not ask like that. I wanted to get some other opinions. I am going to incubate the dream again and ask again though

It sounds like something else was important to you before you decided to change the dream.

The two dream figures chasing you could have been related to whatever was important to you before you decided to change the dream.

The God in the dream also felt that something else was more important. When you said, "You know who I am and what I'm here for" he could have thought you were referring to that something else that was more important.

If something else more important was on your mind, it's possible that at the time, part of you did not want to know how you could more easily and frequently realize you're dreaming.

Rather than competing with the dream, try to collaborate with it. If the dream is in conflict with you, try to identify what the dream wants and satisfy that desire so that there is less resistance in getting what you want from the dream.

Originally Posted by dolphin

It sounds like something else was important to you before you decided to change the dream.

The two dream figures chasing you could have been related to whatever was important to you before you decided to change the dream.

The God in the dream also felt that something else was more important. When you said, "You know who I am and what I'm here for" he could have thought you were referring to that something else that was more important.

If something else more important was on your mind, it's possible that at the time, part of you did not want to know how you could more easily and frequently realize you're dreaming.

Rather than competing with the dream, try to collaborate with it. If the dream is in conflict with you, try to identify what the dream wants and satisfy that desire so that there is less resistance in getting what you want from the dream.

Thank you for responding!
Initially (I felt) I was running because of the time. I had already woken up and tried about 3 times to become lucid using WBTB/MILD. The first few times were unsuccessful and I normally get up about 5:30. The last time I woke up was 3:46 so I knew I didn't have much time to accomplish my goal before I woke up again. Even in the dream I saw two men eating at a table in the garden and one of their iPhones rang and I thought to myself that I hope that isn't my phone in the waking world in my room ringing because I wasn't ready to be woken up yet. So I kind of rushed by him and focused on finding the dream figure to distract myself.

I set three goals for myself each quarter. This quarter my goals are:
1. Ask God my two questions: How can I more easily and frequently realize I'm dreaming while I'm dreaming and is there anything that I am doing that is stopping me?
Maybe the second one was secretly more pressing for me, but I have been doing my daytime practices, reality checks and prospective memory exercises for about three weeks. Every time I do a reality check and realize I'm awake I tell myself if this were a dream I'd change the dream into a garden, find god, and ask my two questions (then I state my two questions).

2. Flying into Outer Space

3. Singing On Stage


So also when I found God in both dreams he always seemed so busy. The first time he joked that he was on lunch break and I'd have to ask my questions when he comes back on duty, then his assistant told me he was just joking and that he never takes lunch breaks. This dream wasn't lucid, but it did inspire me (along with Waggonner's book) to manifest a divine dream character and ask my questions because I have been wondering about my progress and my practices regarding lucid dreaming.

So when I finally got to him in the lucid dream, he picked up his phone and turned away from me so I wanted to quickly get his attention and ask my questions because I knew 1. I didn't have much time before my alarm would wake me up and 2. I didn't want him to walk away and I lose my opportunity. So that's why I told him "You know who I am and what I'm here for" because I felt that I knew I had questions to ask and so would he since he is apart of me.

When you say

Rather than competing with the dream, try to collaborate with it. If the dream is in conflict with you, try to identify what the dream wants and satisfy that desire so that there is less resistance in getting what you want from the dream.

Do you mean don't go back into the next lucid dream and try again? Because this is exactly what I was going to do just to confirm if I got kicked out of my dream by the dream figure or my consciousness somehow or if ... maybe I would actually get an answer. I didn't even get to ask my second question. Of course I skipped some parts, but it was quite a long dream. I woke up it was about... an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes later.

Originally Posted by awalker54

Do you mean don't go back into the next lucid dream and try again?

No, I don't mean that. I mean when trying again, if the dream is resisting you in some way, ask the dream what it is trying to tell you and try to understand the response. Once you feel like the dream is satisfied in getting it's message across, try to do what you want again.

What is very interesting is I read this before I went to sleep and I had a lucid dream that night. I didn't actually plan anything out, but I looked for another door and ended up in a nice hotel or something like that. I walked around and there was a meeting room with a long banquet table surrounded by plants larger than myself and also there was a gardener out by the pool planting large plants as well. I wanted to go out to the pool area to try again, but when I asked the lady who worked there if I could go by the pool she said that they are planning for a current meeting and so they aren't allowing anyone to go out by the pool. I thought it was very interesting that in different ways twice this came about in the same way.

I ended up leaving and then flying down the street I was actually going to look for another alternative door, but I woke up.

Originally Posted by dolphin

if the dream is resisting you in some way, ask the dream what it is trying to tell you and try to understand the response

So I do think that the dream is definitely resisting me.

When crafting my question should I ask "What message do you have for me regarding lucid dreaming?" Does this sound clear enough or should I try a different question

You don't have to see a dream figure to hear an answer from them. You could ask questions without anybody around while imagining that an invisible intelligent dream figure can hear the question and give an answer you can hear.

When you're dreaming, ask "How can I more easily and frequently realize I'm dreaming while I'm dreaming?" and listen for an answer.

If the dream resists in giving an answer, ask "What is the dream trying to tell me?" If you get an answer, try to understand it and then try again in asking the lucid dreaming question. If you do not get an answer, find another dream figure to ask the lucid dreaming question.

Originally Posted by dolphin

You don't have to see a dream figure to hear an answer from them. You could ask questions without anybody around while imagining that an invisible intelligent dream figure can hear the question and give an answer you can hear.

When you're dreaming, ask "How can I more easily and frequently realize I'm dreaming while I'm dreaming?" and listen for an answer.

If the dream resists in giving an answer, ask "What is the dream trying to tell me?" If you get an answer, try to understand it and then try again in asking the lucid dreaming question. If you do not get an answer, find another dream figure to ask the lucid dreaming question.

Perfect! Thank you! I'm definitely going to give this a try.

Originally Posted by dolphin

You don't have to see a dream figure to hear an answer from them. You could ask questions without anybody around while imagining that an invisible intelligent dream figure can hear the question and give an answer you can hear.

When you're dreaming, ask "How can I more easily and frequently realize I'm dreaming while I'm dreaming?" and listen for an answer.

If the dream resists in giving an answer, ask "What is the dream trying to tell me?" If you get an answer, try to understand it and then try again in asking the lucid dreaming question. If you do not get an answer, find another dream figure to ask the lucid dreaming question.

Ok, so I tried this out. I had two lucid dreams last night, but maybe I wasn't lucid enough because I was still reacting to the dream and I also didn't get any answer.

In both dreams I was still caught up in the dream characters' business as everyone was going about doing their things. I remember I was in my neighbor's house and a coworker was also there talking to me. Once I realized I was dreaming I asked the dream my question and waited... there was no answer. I asked "What message does the dream have for me?" once again no answer. So, I ended up just flying away.

Then I had another dream right after this one, but I was being chased first by a group of people. So, I decided to fly, but one of them could fly to so he ended up following me into some trees. Once I couldn't really get away from him I decided I was going to fly into an open window of an apartment building. I got in there and calmed down some, but then I was trying to find an elevator to get out. There were no doors and no elevators. So I'm like ok well... I'll just go back out through a window. Every window was double glass and locked except one. I left and ended up on the street. I asked the dream again "How can I more easily and frequently realize I'm dreaming while I'm dreaming?" --no answer, then I asked "What message does the dream have for me?" --no answer.

So I'm like ok... scratch that lets do something else. All of a sudden a new dream character comes. She is singing, but also chasing me. Another dream character told me that she isn't like the others. She can't be compelled or controlled. So I ran from her, then I decided not to run but to face her. I asked her "What do you represent?" she completely ignored me and continued to try to chase me. She wanted me to leave her "Dream world". I went to fly away only to find that I can't fly as easily now. I can't go as high or as fast as I want. I focus on... the destination rather than the flying itself. But that doesn't get me anywhere. Eventually I just wake up.

Since I was really reactive to the story and the dream characters in both instances, maybe I wasn't lucid enough. I felt like I was lucid enough to fly and remember my goals though. Very interesting. I also didn't do any prep before going to be last night. Normally I meditate, and repeat to myself something like "Tonight I will have a lucid dream" or at least do WBTB in the middle of the night. I didn't do any of that. I just went to sleep and wound up lucid after maybe...2 or 3 dreams. I would say I had at least 5-6 dreams last night.