[QUOTE=Shineenigma;731602Blind men do not have images in their dreams.[/QUOTE]
What if they weren't born blind? How long do you (or anyone else) think that someone can keep on 'seeing' in dreams after they have gone blind?
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[QUOTE=Shineenigma;731602Blind men do not have images in their dreams.[/QUOTE]
What if they weren't born blind? How long do you (or anyone else) think that someone can keep on 'seeing' in dreams after they have gone blind?
That's something I've thought about a lot, too. And what about deaf people who weren't born deaf... what is the difference between the mind's ear of a person like that and a person born deaf. I doubt that the mind's eye of a person born blind can't see. Maybe we should ask this:
Can we visualize something we haven't seen? And I don't mean weird shapes or contraptions, because they're usually comprised of stuff we've already seen. We construct these weird shapes using shapes we already know, we make weird objects of details already known to us.
Maybe the answer lies in creating colors we haven't yet seen in lucid dreams. Some people have claimed to have done this. Yet many have used existing colors to describe the new ones.
Or how about creating your very own shape. Something that isn't a square, a circle etc. or made of them. Such a feat probably demands the application of unknown dimensions, though. But in a dream, isn't everything possible?
Once again - questions with many different answers. Pick one and live with it. No guess is wrong.
360 vision?
Creating new colors?
Dayam...
never thought of it, how could you create new colors. I mean you cant see what you haven't seen. well you can in dreams like dragons and stuff... but a new color? how... :?
yeah, its impossible to create a new color. i mean, if there was a new color how would you describe it? "umm, its a dark red" thats maroon dumbass!! haahahahha
how would you describe it>? you would need other people to see. youd need the whole world to see your new color. or else no one would believe you
PreciselyQuote:
Originally Posted by spitfire riggz
How can you even picture it. The only way to make a new color is by adding colors together that we already know. How can we make something we don't know about.
Our brains cant even picture it because its limited by what we already know
Not sure if i am making sense yet :(
yeah, i saw this show on the discovery channel on the human body, one of which was on the brain. and our brains are ultra powerful and what not. but the most we can do is be able to see ulta-violet or maybe even x ray vision. but not new colors. i forgot how they explained it
I'm reposting this for those who don't like to bother reading the whole thread before posting.
Just because you wouldn't be able to discribe it dosn't mean you couldn't experiance it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 27
Still not convinced i mean how can you even picture a color that doesn't exist. If you think about it your mind will probably just mix up colors you already know. For example if you try to create a new animal. It would end up being a collage of many different animals your brain put together. You cant really see what you have never seen, by that meaning something completely original. Like a sphinx... half man and lion, a dragon part bird part dinosaur and so forth.Quote:
Originally Posted by 27
I hope i managed to get my message across
Why assume that your brain has to mix up things to produce something new? Your brain is capable of incredible things.
On 360 vision, what about something like this (taken literally):
"In the woods, we return to reason and faith. There I feel that nothing can befall me in life, -- no disgrace, no calamity, (leaving me my eyes,) which nature cannot repair. Standing on the bare ground, -- my head bathed by the blithe air, and uplifted into infinite space, -- all mean egotism vanishes. I become a transparent eye-ball; I am nothing; I see all; the currents of the Universal Being circulate through me; I am part or particle of God. The name of the nearest friend sounds then foreign and accidental: to be brothers, to be acquaintances, -- master or servant, is then a trifle and a disturbance. I am the lover of uncontained and immortal beauty. In the wilderness, I find something more dear and connate than in streets or villages. In the tranquil landscape, and especially in the distant line of the horizon, man beholds somewhat as beautiful as his own nature."
R. W. Emerson
From "Nature"
except differences between animals is not ANYTHING like those between colors. A person could absolutely create a new animal in a dream if he tried! (given the creative capabilities). All animals are simply elaborated DNA. Colors are unique in the way that the only thing that makes them the same, red, blue, and yellow, is that they are the three and only three puzzle pieces of light.Quote:
Originally Posted by warock
Hmm.. so what if we discovered like a "light-2", with 3 new primary colors? Would our brains percieve it? Or would we have to redefine physics??
man! its impossible to create a new color! its just not possible. i believe in every single damn thing like nessie and dream walkers. but creating a new color is just not possible. one thing that did strike me though, like jamous says, maybe if there was a new type of light, but still, it would be only a small percent chance. if there was new light it would probably either just make colors brighter or darker
I wonder, though... What makes, for example, red RED? The frequency of some little particles or the way we interpret that frequency? It's the good old tree-question, actually. When you see a tree, do you see something that's out there or something that is inside you. The relationship between a subject and that subject's environment is somewhat strange and paradoxical, and a very fertile soil for many different questions and opinions.
As one Estonian philosopher, Uku Masing, once said: there is no way of knowing whether one person's shade of yellow is that which another person sees. And that's something to think about: what's my RED? what's your red? what's a ladybird's red? Maybe, in my dreams, I could see your red and you could see mine, and we'd see "new" colours, or - different interpretations of the ones that already exists. Even if there are only "three main puzzle pieces" - so what. That doesn't automatically mean that we see those pieces from the same angle.
And please, people, don't be so quick to say "impossible". We need more thoughts with wings! Plus - science has got nothing to do with dreams, in my opinion. :P
yeah. i remember hearing something about the color your seeing is every color of the rainbow EXCEPT for that color. i forgot, but it was wierd. that black was because you were seeing all the colors or something.... sorry. confusing
Dude, just think about it. Why couldn't your brain trick you into making you think you're seeing a new color? One outside the normal color spectrum? You can do anything in your dreams. Anything. A new color wouldn't even be that hard. I wouldn't classify it as an "extreme" lucid experiment anyway. Not as hard as 360 vision or controlling two bodies anyway. You shouldn't say it's impossible if you've never tried it.
DUDE!! THERE ISNT ANY WAY THATS SANE. i just, *error* *malfunction*
it would kill to try and conjure a new color
Interesting stuff, Sour Cherry Boy! And strange you mention that thing about 'another man's red' so-to-speak, because I used to hypothesize a similar concept when I was a kid. I thought, "what if one person sees red, but what he calls red I might call blue in my eyes?" As if the color wheel was rotated between individuals, red, blue, and yellow, switched up. How would we ever know? Of course, for this "another man's red" sort of concept to be true, the "color wheel" or color ratio would have to be basically consistent amongst everybody. So the wheel would either have to be rotated between individuals or there would have to be entirely different wheels.Quote:
Originally Posted by SourCherryBoy
Now, assuming what we're talking about is the latter version, the different wheels version, then the question is "could one man see another man's red in a dream?"... I don't know. I lean toward not though on an assumption that the ratio of colors is a law within and without every individual. If I were to somehow see your red it would have to replace mine. But I don't know.
Hah! 360 degree vision is easy! I've done that awake with just my imagination!Quote:
Originally Posted by 27
A whole new colour is too intense. Sure you could technically see beyond our spectrum by fireing off the right neurones. It is also technically possible to with the lottery jackpot 5 weeks in a row. A new colour is so beyond our capabilities, and I'm saying that as someone with perfect dream control, when lucid, and an advanced knowldge of the capabilities of my own mind. Trust me, my imagination is so strong that while awake I have felt what it feels like to be in a totally non-human body, seen 360 vision and so on.
What experience or evidence makes you think that seeing a new colour in a dream can realistically be done? Speculation? Intuition? Ignorant assumptions?
As a person who has studied the biology of the human eye and human dreams in psychological fields, as well as massive skill in control in dreams it does not make proper sense.
Jamous, I had though about this very same thing when I was about 14. Frankly, the answer is so obvious that I don't see why I'm bothering. Simply the colours could not work that way. Look at the colour spread when chosing custom colours on most computor software. There are more shades of green than any other colour. If it were true that one person were to perceve colours as the next one on, this would not work correctly. It would mean that there would be detail on certain coloured objects that some people just would not be able to see. This may be true of some (i.e. the colourblind), but the difference would be much more noticable.
On the subject of colourblindness, I happen to know a couple of people inflicted with it. They simply struggle to tell the difference between red and green. That is because they are less capable of detecting those colours and are thus less distinct. They do not see it as something different. This arguement goes someway to disproving your suggestion as it shows with known example that sight of colour does not wirk in that way.
Finally, all our eyes work the same. Sure they may be of different calabre. Some have shaper vision, some detect colour better, others see things brighter. However, the colour wavelengths are constant. If it wasn't for each person eyes would not work properly.
I don't put any faith in philosophers. They come up with some real rubbish some times. They lack the simple common sense (which I prize for its rarety) often to spot the obvious flaws. One such man after a dream about being a butterfly questioned whether he was a man dreaming he was a butterfly or vice versa. Anyone with any experience of dreams should be able to instantly recognise that he would be able to know, the dream would not be that long, he would have no concept of humaity, etc.
It's beyond the capacity of the eye but not the mind. I'm making it my #1 priority in my next LD to see a new color just to prove you all wrong ! But seriously, I know many people have claimed to see a new color in an LD and I don't think they're all liars. And for the record, I've taken college psych classes that studied the eye and dreams as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shineenigma
Red, blue, and yellow are the only colors there are. And every color that is not solid red, blue, or yellow, is a combination. The color spectrum encompasses every possible color between red, blue, and yellow, and black and white, which are "shades."Quote:
Originally Posted by Shineenigma
yeah. i could try all i wanted to make a new color in my lds. but u or me or anyone wouldnt be able too. if u do, please TRY to prove to me how u did it, and describe the color....... muhahahahah
You are then tricked to believe that something is a new colour, while it actually isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by 27
Which is what I've been saying the whole time... It would just look like a new color outside the normal spectrum.
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by spitfire riggz
I'd like to see them try...