Thread: EXTREME Lucid Experiments

Spitfire, colors don't exist in the first place. We only see color because our brains translate what our physical senses tell us. Colors are a perception. They are subjective. Same with sound---what exists is the frequency/vibration. The sound itself does not exist until it is actually perceived and translated into a sound by the mind.

When you aren't limited by your physical senses--your eyes--your mind is capable of "seeing" more than is possible in your physical body, hence things like seeing in all directions at once.

And again, hummingbirds see more colors than we do, for example. You wouldn't be surprised if a hound could smell more scents. Human beings are so arrogant, thinking we have the best equipment! But anyway, that in itself proves that there are more colors than the ones our human eyes can perceive.

So basically, that means your argument can only work if you are arguing that it is impossible to dream something you have never seen or experienced previously in some form or another, right? But the wonderful thing about the imagination is just that--it can actually create completely new ideas. And if you don't think that's possible, then I sort of feel sorry for you.

Also, just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it's impossible. Although most dreams (especially for a non-LDer) are pretty much just our mind imitating the normal things it is used to. In lucid dreams and OBEs, things can become much more than simply a mixture of our thoughts and previous experiences.

Nothing is impossible within your own mind and imagination.

Naiya, I don't think you actually imagined or dreamt new colors. You probably felt like you did, but didn't actually. Until we have the capability to perceive energy outside the visual spectrum, there is no way to actually imagine it like you would imagine the color red or blue.

Originally Posted by schematics

Naiya, I don't think you actually imagined or dreamt new colors. You probably felt like you did, but didn't actually. Until we have the capability to perceive energy outside the visual spectrum, there is no way to actually imagine it like you would imagine the color red or blue.

You're still thinking that dreams are perceived by our physical eyes. They aren't. They're perceived by our minds. So again, your argument is just that you don't think anyone can imagine something they've never seen before. Which imo, is more of a philosophical question that has no correct answer.

Ok, sorry to break up the party on colors, but you can't imagine new colors, you can percieve previously imperceptible sprectra, but so far as I know EM only really goes from radio to gama. There are animals that cans see from infrared to ultraviolet, but that is the full range perceptible by any known organic being. It takes some prety imaginative science to see all of the EM Spectra, and even then it's only rationalized into our percievable spectrum. There, no such thing as new colors, just ones you haven't seen.

Originally Posted by Naiya

You're still thinking that dreams are perceived by our physical eyes. They aren't. They're perceived by our minds. So again, your argument is just that you don't think anyone can imagine something they've never seen before. Which imo, is more of a philosophical question that has no correct answer.

course I know dreams aren't created through stimuli taken in through our eyes, as our eyes are closed when we sleep . The stimuli comes from internal input, I know that (not the mind though, the mind is more of an abstract thing, it's probably better to say that dreams are combination from internal input in the brain). And, I know we can imagine things we haven't seen before, hell right now I'm imagining a giant tree where the roots are made of human arms and the leaves are long spiky things. But even that is a combination of things that already exist. Forms and objects that exist in our perception of the universe. We can't actually imagine or dream up new colors (and remember, a new color means just that you're perceving out side the visual spectrum, so into UV, x-ray or whatever) because we don't have the capabilities to perceive them. I just don't know how to explain this any better. You can "feel" like you see them, just like when you wake up from a dream and "felt" like you heard the most beautiful music in the world but can't quite remember what it sounded like....

Originally Posted by schematics

course I know dreams aren't created through stimuli taken in through our eyes, as our eyes are closed when we sleep . The stimuli comes from internal input, I know that (not the mind though, the mind is more of an abstract thing, it's probably better to say that dreams are combination from internal input in the brain).

Yep, you are right...the mind is abstract. Therefore your whole argument kind of makes no sense because you're trying to put physical boundaries on something abstract and boundless. Nothing is unimaginable within the imagination.

no that's the thing, I'm saying the mind fools you into thinking you perceived the imperceivable. but w/e. who knows, I could be wrong for all I know.

All that your perceivable is in your mind. Nothing is "imperceivable".

Originally Posted by schematics

no that's the thing, I'm saying the mind fools you into thinking you perceived the imperceivable. but w/e. who knows, I could be wrong for all I know.

That's exactly it, no one can ever possibly know for sure either way. When you've experienced it yourself, this explanation just doesn't measure always up. So I understand, I just personally disagree.

I'm not asking anyone to believe me, just that they don't try to rewrite my own experience. It's kind of like when you're in love with someone and a person you don't even know goes "Oh it's just a phase/infatuation." In some cases they are 100% right, but you have to admit, it's more than a little obnoxious for people to say that to someone's face, and you better be prepared for the person to defend what they believe they have experienced.