Thread: To Ascend or not to Ascend?

depends what vibes i got from this higher being. if it was my "equal" or superior, i've already got everything i need packed...

Originally posted by wombing
depends what vibes i got from this higher being. if it was my "equal" or superior, i've already got everything i need packed...

In this case I do mean equal. I also mean ascending as in a good place not a bad place. The reason why I placed it like that is because of another option. What if you knew you could ascend there at anytime and had the option to? Would you then leave the people you know or try to help or try to help others in the process?

Originally posted by AHiddenSaint
If a Higher Being showed up and said he would give you the ability to ascend to a higher plane would you take it. Keep in minid their are no catchs to this.

I think I saw this episode on Angel, it didn't work well for Cordelia.

Spiritual development is possible in this world. It is part of being human.

Originally posted by Asclepius


I think I saw this episode on Angel, it didn't work well for Cordelia.

Spiritual development is possible in this world. It is part of being human.

that is correct

Just assuming there is such a thing as a 'higher plane' (and I think there is, but I know not everybody does)

Very tempting, but no.

That's like an offer on a job even though you're not qualified.. you'll mess up eventually.

I'll go when I'm ready, when it is naturally time 8) Unless this being was omnipotent and knew all and said it was my time but I don't believe in any such being. The only one that will know when this time comes, is me. And right now, there is still so much to learn and so much to see here. I love it here, even though certain things about society sometimes bring me down

I want to be perfectly happy and at peace here, before going anywhere else. It's not where I am, it's what I am inside that matters most. I gotta learn how to walk before I fly

I'll get there, eventually.. right now I'm just enjoying my time here as much as I can ^_^
----

And in the case of it really is 'my time to go' then I'd still rather stay behind for a while.. help others and still enjoy things over here. There is still lots I want to do before I leave here

I'd take it, but not right away if I didn't have to. I'd be able to have so much fun if I knew I could just go to a higher plane if I wanted to.

I'd say no unless they can garantee me I'll know EVERYTHING... I'm addicted knowledge so...

To descend or not to descend...

I belive in equality, so in my judgement there is no "higher" being. Secondly, I don't belive one ever needs/do ascend or descend to anything, if anything, spiritualy, one would exist or not.

Originally posted by Lucius

That's like an offer on a job even though you're not qualified.. you'll mess up eventually.

Perfectly nailed. I couldn't possibly express my feelings about it any better.

Originally posted by Sortilegio
To descend or not to descend...

I belive in equality, so in my judgement there is no "higher" being. Secondly, I don't belive one ever needs/do ascend or descend to anything, if anything, spiritualy, one would exist or not.

I think this is a interesting Philosophic question. It's basically like saying if someone gave you a free ride would you accept it? It can also give you a intersting look at how we view the human self. Our road might be a struggle, but many have pointed out that the struggle is worth it because there is still a lot to learn even here.

Originally posted by Sortilegio
To descend or not to descend...

I belive in equality, so in my judgement there is no "higher" being. Secondly, I don't belive one ever needs/do ascend or descend to anything, if anything, spiritualy, one would exist or not.

So does that mean that one doesn't have to ascend in order to climb a mountain? And they don't have to descend to get back down?

Originally posted by AHiddenSaint
If a Higher Being showed up and said he would give you the ability to ascend to a higher plane would you take it. Keep in minid their are no catchs to this.

Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Ye s!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes! Yes!
Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Ye s!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!
Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Ye s!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes! Yes!

'Because there would only one being which could do this! And His name is ???'

Recently I discussed this very idea with a friend and I ended that conversation by jokingly saying; "I'm too hell bent for leather,,,,,,,,,,,and silk,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and cashmere".
The point; no matter how enticing the highly evolved, and the respective dimension may be, the number of pleasures/experiences etc. available to us here on this plane are infinite.
Engaging daily such complex sensory data is most curious, most intriguing.

Originally posted by km703
Recently I discussed this very idea with a friend and I ended that conversation by *jokingly saying; "I'm too hell bent for leather,,,,,,,,,,,and silk,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and cashmere".
The point; *no matter how enticing the highly evolved, and the respective dimension may be, the number of pleasures/experiences etc. available to us here on this plane are infinite. *
Engaging daily such complex sensory data is most curious, most intriguing.

My thoughts on "ascending" . Humans as a species judge how happy they are by comparing . Say for example this place where you ascend to is the bestest most happiest place in the known universe, what now do you have to compare this place to? Nothing, you have reached the peak of existance with nowhere to go, and nothing is better. So you should be feeling on top of the world. But would you? With nothing bad to compare this wonderful place with it would now seem that this is the norm and its just "okay" to be there. I don't think humans as a species can ever be truly happy as we are programmed to want, to desire better, to compare what one man has with what we have.

Its all part of what evolution has made us be, and is possibly the reason why we as a species are never happy and want to excell more and more, trying to reach the unattainable. Its possibly the reason why we decided to come down from the trees and start actually thinking. But yeah thats another topic so, woops.

Originally posted by AHiddenSaint
If a Higher Being showed up and said he would give you the ability to ascend to a higher plane would you take it. Keep in minid their are no catchs to this.

yeap.

But don't we already have the 'ability' to ascend to a higher plane? In the same way as every able-bodied person has the 'ability' to climb Mount Everest, we all have the 'ability' to refine and discipline our conscious beings. We all have Will Power. If we focus our Will Power toward Spiritual Ends, then we can in fact rise to a Higher Plane.

Dunno.

Don't really understand what exactly you are trying to refer to, unless you are talking XP5...because I really don't understand anything more than exploring XP5 and 5PX with Cody (and even that I don't understand very well).

And it depends on what exactly you are talking about here? If it relates to a place like XP5/5PX, then I would accept.

Otherwise, I am perfectly happy spying on Iraqies, and partying in XP5.

Originally posted by Asclepius


Spiritual development is possible in this world. *It is part of being human.

Well... actually not. Being 'Human' is to be something of an animal. Spirituality is a transcendence of human animality.

Simply look for yourselves. Go to Bangkok, or Capetown, or Copenhagen and tell us how much spirituality is a factor in being Human. Or consult some American Marines... oh, wait, we were speaking about Human Beings, weren't we.

But, then again, perhaps I should relent on account of humor. I once read a French author who claimed that humor -- what makes people laugh -- is based upon two things (sometimes three). People laugh because of Ambiguity, and sometimes merely because the situation is ridiculously abnormal or stupid. But then we have what can be called Spiritual Laughter, when people laugh at anything that reminds them that Human Beings are mortal animals. Sexual Humor, and Scatological Humor basically derive from the amusing realization that are not in fact as Spiritual as we would like to be. We find it 'funny' that we are enslaved by animalistic sex drives and that we need to poop. That we almost all laugh at that condition shows an almost universal assumption, however incorrect as it may be, that we are inherently Spiritual Beings.

Originally posted by Lucius


That's like an offer on a job even though you're not qualified.. you'll mess up eventually. *

Actually, some problems are contained entirely upon the Plane where they arise.

Two Angels once appeared to me and lectured me upon Black Sins and Red Sins. The point they most focussed upon was that Black Sins were deliberate and cold blooded -- such as people stealing or killing for profit, or making deliberate plans to exploit and victimize others. But Red Sins are entirely the product of animal passions.

These Two Angels were not very concerned with the Red Sins, except to the extent that where souls would become inadvertently habituated to them, as when a soul that rises above the Plane of Sex and Hunger might still expect to have sex or to require food, simply out of force of habit and not from any real need any longer. But once these souls are arrived at this Higher Plane, all the problems they once had with the Red Sins -- all those sins of compulsion and passion, are effectively transcended. One no longer commits sexual indiscretions where there is no longer the sex urge. No one any longer steals bread when there is no longer any hunger. And all the frustrations of life which source out of sexuality and material insecurity.

So, if you are not a Republican or a Capitalist (who more than proudly fly the Flag of the Black Sins), then you might certainly not have any problem at all with moving up to a Higher Plane.

Originally posted by braha_kahn
I'd say no unless they can garantee me I'll know EVERYTHING... I'm addicted knowledge so... *

it is not about total knowing but about total being.

i think someone has been watchen to much stargate?


yea i would ascend if it felt like the right thing to do at the time

Originally posted by Sortilegio
To descend or not to descend...

I belive in equality, so in my judgement there is no "higher" being. Secondly, I don't belive one ever needs/do ascend or descend to anything, if anything, spiritualy, one would exist or not.

Of course there are different planes.

One could be a U. S. Marine.

Or one could be a Carmelite Monk or Nun.

One could be the kind of person who goes on vacation to the Bangkok Sex Tours, or one could go Guru Hunting in India.

People are not all on the same level.

Originally posted by Darkmatic


With nothing bad to compare this wonderful place with it would now seem that this is the norm and its just "okay" to be there. I don't think humans as a species can ever be truly happy as we are programmed to want, to desire better, to compare what one man has with what we have. *

Have you read Vivekananda. He is still published by the Ramakrishna Vivekananda Centers. His collected works are very informative, and Thank God that he died young so that his collected works were summed up soon enough where they are not very cluttered with the unnecessary.

But he had made one point, similar to the point Toynbee the Historian made about 'etherealization', and that is that people's spiritual sensibilities continuously refine upward. We don't have to compare our lives to such awful dark and dreadful crap as we can find in this World. if we were to move higher, we would still have frames for reference, only the Higher Things would be higher then we now know, and the lower things would also be higher than the low things we now know. Moving Up gives us a net gain. But we do not have to worry that we will no longer have any goals. But our strivings will be Higher Strivings.

In dharma they say our paths will fold themsveles in our actions, or unfold.
If I were a follower of dharma I would say not, for doing that would be a selfish act, and thus I would limit my path.

In taoism they say that we can find our way where we are, infact we find our way best there.

All in all, I like where I am, and hope that I can find what ascension may be able to bear right here, moreover than that, I like to help people, not that I don't like being helped, but if my being helped would end my ability to try helping others...

Originally posted by skyler
In dharma they say our paths will fold themsveles in our actions, or unfold. *
If I were a follower of dharma I would say not, for doing that would be a selfish act, and thus I would limit my path.

In taoism they say that we can find our way where we are, infact we find our way best there. *

All in all, I like where I am, and hope that I can find what ascension may be able to bear right here, moreover than that, I like to help people, not that I don't like being helped, but if my being helped would end my ability to try helping others...

There must be some kind of a Daoist Proverb which all Daoists are sworn to maintain that goes something like "To make the right decision is to make the wrong decision".

And thats what you all do.

You know, I suspect the reason for why all intelligent Chinese became Mahayana Buddhists. Because Daoism was their alternative.

Would you ever want to be spiritually successful? No. Because I'm a Daoist.