Thread: America & Obsession

I like the point here Hard as Nails. And this is very well put. goodjob

I haven't noticed whether people here are so obsessed with America or not.
But if some really do, you certainly must belong to one of them.

A.) Why be jealous of America, if I live in the Netherlands, a country with more freedoms, and also better free media.

B.) How can you agree with how hard America fucked up the last few years in both Afghanistan and Iraq, torturing innocents and killing more then half a million.

C.) You elected a total retard for a president.

Sucks to live in the USA, land of the free, home of the (metaphorical) AIDS.

A) I never said you personally were jealous, in the literal sense of the word. Better free media in the netherlands? Have you ever been to America? All our news is about is how Bush and the conservatives screw up, and why the war is wrong. Look, if we can openly immitate our leader in a disrespectful fassion (like John Stewart does on the Daily Show), we definately have a free media. You know, from what you have said you know nothing of American freedoms and customs. On the other hand, i have never been to Holland, so i cannot say you do not have as many freedom as WE do. Neither can you (even if you have spent a little time in the states)

B) Why did you even bring this up? This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. And YES, we did fuck up in the middle east. Woop de do!!! I\'ve only been hearing that for the last 3 years. This topic is about America\'s influence on you, and considering you dont live in the mid-east, leave it out of this thread. I\'m sure there are some other topics around for that reason.

C) True. Bush is not the smartest guy around. Yet again, this affects you how?



So far this topic is going in the wrong direction. I have yet to see how America influences Europe. Until i hear otherwise, obsession and jealosy are still reasons for America bashing.

Some more stuff i\'m confused about. You know my leader\'s name, but i have NO idea who leads Holland. This has nothing to do with my ignorance of the outside world. It\'s because Holland is never on the news. Why is America on the news so much? There are PLENTY of other atrocities going on in the world right now, but they never appear. Genocide in Africa. Havent heard about it in a while. The same with the hate crimes by fanatical muslims and chinese. Its all about America. We are the center of global attention. Why do many Europeans know the value of the American dollar compared to their national currency? Because the American dollar is a household word. I have no idea how many dollars equal one British pound. Again, becuase i will never use it. American currency is also accepted virtually anywhere in the world. Not true with the Euro.

So, do they have \"American History\" classes in Europe? Cause we sure as hell dont have \"Dutch History\"


stick to the topic at hand please

Hard As Nails, you are Homonius Feralis right? Or whatever the name was of the dude that got banned. Anyhow, hho make more topics: the people that make topics that are anti-ameica or you bitching about those people their oppinions? Close call.

Just drop it.

No. I am not Hominis feralis, or better know to me as \"McGyver\". He did, however, introduce me to this site before he got banned. Did you know him? I bet you got along GREAT with him. McGyver is 10X the conservative i am.

Anyway, i made this thread to find out why we are so important to you. I have looked around, and i have not seen a thread that resembles this one. Since this has not been cleared up yet, i am looking for some answers. And no, i am not \"bitching\" about anti American people.

i really dont see you adding to this discussion. Its really just dragging me off the topic with you.

Originally Posted by Hard

No. I am not Hominis feralis, or better know to me as \"McGyver\". He did, however, introduce me to this site before he got banned. Did you know him? I bet you got along GREAT with him. McGyver is 10X the conservative i am.

Anyway, i made this thread to find out why we are so important to you. I have looked around, and i have not seen a thread that resembles this one. Since this has not been cleared up yet, i am looking for some answers. And no, i am not \"bitching\" about anti American people.

i really dont see you adding to this discussion. Its really just dragging me off the topic with you.
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http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/inde...howtopic=37786
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/inde...howtopic=37109
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/inde...howtopic=37841
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/inde...howtopic=37810

All those topics seem to be defending America. It is quite like this topic, some people disagree with America for logic reasons, and people like hominis feralis instantly go to spam everyone to defend their 'great country'.

Are you sure you are not Hominis feralis? Kind of silly that a few days/weeks after he gets banned, you shows up, with the exact same conservative American-protective view. Just seemed weird to me.

My apologies if you are indeed someone else.

-

On topic:

What, according to you, is wrong with disliking America for invading 2 countries without proper reasons, killing more then half a million civilians and actually reaching that what you tried to exterminate: more Muslims anti-american extremists.

apology accepted.

You see, this topic is about why we are so important to you. Not what we are currently doing. Close to HALF A MILLION CIVILIAN DEATHS????? Its probably a little closer to 100,000, which is still an unacceptable number.

Look, if you think i am McGyver then keep thinking it. We go to a conservative college campus, and we have similar backgrounds. Of course we will have similar views (on paper). The truth is we disagree about this kind of crap all the time. He\'s actually a pretty goddam stuborn asshole at times. Is that why he got banned? I read a lot of his posts and they didnt seem THAT bad to me.

look man, dont even respond to this post. i would rather hear from someone else who can actually add to the conversation.

He is not saying it's really all that wrong. He just really wants to know how it is affecting your daily life. Or on the other hand why does it bother you.

Shark, why do you know phrases like \"old glory\" and \"stars and stripes\"? These phrases pertain to our country and our flag, and have virtually nothing to do with Europe (you are from Holland, right?). And it is not just shark. All of the others who talk trash about America bring up events in our past and what we are doing currently. I mean COME ON!!! You guys probably know more about American history than you do about your own country\'s!!! Do they have a \"American History: Why We Should Hate Them\" class at your high schools? That is just some stuff i am confused about. I dont know that much about French history. Not because of my \"stupid American, flag waving ignorance\", but because it has nothing to do with me. You guys have said that what America does does not affect you. Yet you still know loads of info about us. Why? Becuase it is taught to you. Why is it taught? Obsession. At least from my perspective

Disclamer: I know that not all Europeans are the same thing. I know that there are many, like the English, who dont have a problem with us. I am not trying to fit the entire continent of Europe into a bucket labeled \"America haters\". This post refers to only those who have denied obsession with America, and is also here to help understand why America is such a big issue.

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I’m not sure if I’m exactly right but I think I know why you think we are obsessed. You think learning about another country, and its history and flag etc etc is "obsession" whereas where I come from we value knowledge and are of the thinking that it is important to learn about politics and history of more then our immediate surrounding area. Its not taught because of some obsession...its just important to be educated on more than your own history or current events. So I think maybe in a conservative college...you don’t think you should learn about other things?like france? So that is why I deny your accusation of my obsessions.


btw whats wrong with us learning about america??? thats my question???

I’m just throwing this out here but...maybe this view that you dont learn about France because it doesn't affect you is why some, very few, but some americans ask canadians if they live in igloos...or ask if Israelites live in sand dunes right now. Its because they call ppl that learn about things "obsessed" and say the reason must be because they are bitter. I don’t even really know that much about America. And yes we do have classes that teach about american history, not to hate it, but when you learn of Vietnam, spanish/american war, Reagan, hiroshima...

(btw how was my last avatar anit-american? and btw dont think I hate all of america or anything. the americans here all seem great, and america is undoubtably a great place...not perfect though right.)

DUDE!!!!!!!!!& #33;!!!!!!!!!& #33;! YOU DID IT!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!

You finally talked about someone besides the US. Awesome!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!!!!!

You, and you alone, understood the point of this thread. To tell the truth, there is NOTHING wrong with studying American History and NOTHING wrong with learning about our country.

Even though you hate America, you have my respect. You have explained yourself in an understandable fassion, without going off topic. You are the only one who answered my question in a reasonable fassion.

thank you shark.

Ah man this is beautiful.

People that were in the topics about America of some time ago, I said America fit the dictionary term of 'terrorism' fitted perfectly on the US government.

Now look what I found, an America using that same parallel between terrorism and the (republican) government

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/61439/...rmongering.html

You know what you're missing Neruo?

THE MOUSE! That's why you have so much pinned up animosity. Man that's not healthy. I'm gonna get with Disney and tell them to build a Walt Disney in Holland because I know you all feel left out with Paris having one and Japan having one, I can totally understand how you will direct that anger at the U.S. It's all good. you want to know why? Because "its a small world after all."

Ironically, I have been to disney land about 8 times. It allso has little to do with the american goverment fucking up. I don't think bush ever went to disney land.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Ironically, I have been to disney land about 8 times. It allso has little to do with the american goverment fucking up. I don't think bush ever went to disney land.
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I don't give a damn about a Bush in Disney World. I'm trying to hook you up chief! Did you go to Florida or California? Because you mentioned Disneyland and if you've been to Disneyland then you were cheated. You have to check out Disneyworld. When I hit the Lottery you know what I'm gonna do? I'm taking my ASS to Disneyworld. Who is your favorite Disney Character?

I am not obsessed with America. I do not like America or Quebec. But I do love Canada, Australia, Japan, China, UK, Germany, Italy, Greece, and Croatia.. all others I simply feel a sense of neutrality.

I believe some people are "obsessing" over America in a sense of indignation. I would guess that people feel much like how kids at school can never stop thinking about the bully that steals their lunch money everyday and then beats them up if they ask for it back. Then, when they formally make their complaints (or informally at times, of course), they probably feel an overwhelming amount of ad hominems and reasons for why the person is stupid for thinking such things. They are usually also given evidence (in a very pontificated sort of way) of why they should actually be thankful for America. With all due respect, it really reminds me of George Orwell's "1984".

However, this is not how I feel, but please consider that when others make complaints about a country, I would guess it is out of indignation... NOT JEALOUSY!

[The following was edited out because I felt it may have been antagonising.. however, I am leaving it in my post for your consideration.. please take it lightly as I also take it lightly.]

Why does that also remind me of teeny-boppers off of movies like Mean Girls? "You just don't like me because you're jealous!" We must take complaints made against us as civily as possible and consider the reasons for the complaints instead of retaliating and creating a stone-wall in the conflictive process. If we are unable to truly appreciate any other person's concerns and you retaliate back - you automatically make yourself guilty of further complaints...

~

Originally Posted by Neruo

C.) You elected a total retard for a president.[/b]

And twice to boot. Makes me ashamed to live here personally...

Originally Posted by Ne

I don't give a damn about a Bush in Disney World. I'm trying to hook you up chief! Did you go to Florida or California? Because you mentioned Disneyland and if you've been to Disneyland then you were cheated. You have to check out Disneyworld. When I hit the Lottery you know what I'm gonna do? I'm taking my ASS to Disneyworld. Who is your favorite Disney Character?
[/b]

Adolf Hilter.

Oh no wait, that is bush his favorite disney character.
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Anyhows, since america is the most powerfull nation and the most active nation in wars around the world, it isn't a big surprise people care so much about america.

teh edn.

And -some dude-, I guess you don't have to be ashamed to live in a country that chose an idiot for a president... twice. There will allways be retards in Every country... only a bit more in america. Just be a good person yourself, screw the rest.

Originally Posted by Neruo

A.) Why be jealous of America, if I live in the Netherlands, a country with more freedoms, and also better free media.

B.) How can you agree with how hard America fucked up the last few years in both Afghanistan and Iraq, torturing innocents and killing more then half a million.

C.) You elected a total retard for a president.

Sucks to live in the USA, land of the free, home of the (metaphorical) AIDS.
[/b]

A. You tell me.

B. 40,000 civilians have been killed in Iraq, and those were not intentional, and warnings were given. Stop making stuff up. Tens of MILLIONS of civilians were killed by the allies in WWII, and I know you aren't going to claim that that war effort was not necessary, or are you? It has been against American military policy to torture innocents, Abu Ghraib was a fraternity hazing committed by just a few who ended up getting punished for it, and insurgent terrorists have been truly committing torture and even targeting civilians in mass numbers. I have yet to see you complain about them.

C. I have no idea who your president is, and I sure as Hell will not spend much time talking about him on the internet.

Hard as Nails, awesome post!

Originally Posted by Neruo

I believe some people are "obsessing" over America in a sense of indignation. I would guess that people feel much like how kids at school can never stop thinking about the bully that steals their lunch money everyday and then beats them up if they ask for it back. [/b]

The United States does not beat up Canada or any European country. We protect them. We only beat up the bullies, such as the insurgent terrorists that NOBODY here who obsesses over the U.S. will go off about. When people ignore insurgent terrorists, who TARGET innocent civilians in mass numbers for the sake of preventing a free Iraq and Afghanistan, but talk and talk and talk about how the United States is supposed to be some bully, I know that they are being intellectually dishonest and that their real problem with the United States is something that they are not talking about.

This is a "Philosophy" forum so let's look at the last post from that perspective:

Originally posted by Universal Mind
...free Iraq...

You see "freedom" is a very relative term. Could you please tell me in what way Irag was not free. Or eaven better why should you care about Iraq not being free? Why should America dictate the meaning of the term "freedom"? Why not leave Iraq alone? After all...they're only around 300-400 years behind America. They are never going to "see the light" if you try and make them. Stop sticking your noses where they don't belong. Leave them alone and you'll be left alone.


But you guys know why you realy went to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Originally Posted by Universal

A. You tell me. [/b]

You tell me why you think I am jealous. I am not jealous of rapist either, yet I hate them. Like I hate the USA, rapist of small countries.

B. 40,000 civilians have been killed in Iraq, and those were not intentional, and warnings were given. Stop making stuff up. Tens of MILLIONS of civilians were killed by the allies in WWII, and I know you aren't going to claim that that war effort was not necessary, or are you? It has been against American military policy to torture innocents, Abu Ghraib was a fraternity hazing committed by just a few who ended up getting punished for it, and insurgent terrorists have been truly committing torture and even targeting civilians in mass numbers. I have yet to see you complain about them. [/b]

Man do you ONLY watch fox news? 40.000, says the government. More then half a million say just about every other source.

http://www.noscope.com/journal/2006/10/600...due-to-invasion

Also, watch 'road to Guantanamo', shocking movie. And I am quite sure America has tortured more people then the terrorist have killed or wounded outside their own country.

C. I have no idea who your president is, and I sure as Hell will not spend much time talking about him on the internet. [/b]

You should, he is a fucking retard. Also, my president (although it isn't really a president, he is not allpowerfull like your monkey in office) didn't start a war that had like a million deaths already. Oh wait, he started two wars! First a war on terror, causing more terrorist. Then a war on his imaginary friends, the WMD's that saddam 'had'.

Hard as Nails, awesome post!
The United States does not beat up Canada or any European country. We protect them. We only beat up the bullies, such as the insurgent terrorists that NOBODY here who obsesses over the U.S. will go off about. When people ignore insurgent terrorists, who TARGET innocent civilians in mass numbers for the sake of preventing a free Iraq and Afghanistan, but talk and talk and talk about how the United States is supposed to be some bully, I know that they are being intellectually dishonest and that their real problem with the United States is something that they are not talking about.
[/b]

The way I see it, Europe is a bunch of dudes just chillin', some little kid trows a rock at them, and America kills the kids entire family.

Originally Posted by Universal

Hard as Nails, awesome post!
The United States does not beat up Canada or any European country. We protect them. We only beat up the bullies, such as the insurgent terrorists that NOBODY here who obsesses over the U.S. will go off about. When people ignore insurgent terrorists, who TARGET innocent civilians in mass numbers for the sake of preventing a free Iraq and Afghanistan, but talk and talk and talk about how the United States is supposed to be some bully, I know that they are being intellectually dishonest and that their real problem with the United States is something that they are not talking about.
[/b]

Allow me to try this again in a new simile:

Perhaps some people feel upset with the United States in the same way that an employee hates their boss. They think that their methods of choice are inappropriate or insensitive.. whatever it may be. Subsurvient indignation anyway..

Does that make it seem less offensive and antagonising..?

~

Originally Posted by Neruo

You tell me why you think I am jealous. I am not jealous of rapist either, yet I hate them. Like I hate the USA, rapist of small countries.
Man do you ONLY watch fox news? 40.000, says the government. More then half a million say just about every other source.

http://www.noscope.com/journal/2006/10/600...due-to-invasion

Also, watch 'road to Guantanamo', shocking movie. And I am quite sure America has tortured more people then the terrorist have killed or wounded outside their own country.
You should, he is a fucking retard. Also, my president (although it isn't really a president, he is not allpowerfull like your monkey in office) didn't start a war that had like a million deaths already. Oh wait, he started two wars! First a war on terror, causing more terrorist. Then a war on his imaginary friends, the WMD's that saddam 'had'.
The way I see it, Europe is a bunch of dudes just chillin', some little kid trows a rock at them, and America kills the kids entire family.
[/b]

I know you want to believe that we have killed 500 thousand civilians, but I am going to have to disappoint you.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:2CIpV...t=clnk&cd=1

It is not Americans who are targetting civilians. It is the insurgents who are doing that. Let's watch you NOT go off about them. I know what you are really about.

I think you are jealous because you don't live anywhere near here or where our troops are fighting, but you have your life wrapped up in us. We are the country that keeps you safe, and you know it. Instead of being grateful, you constantly spew your selfish jealousy.

You are just flat out making up statistics and scenarios. What you are saying is false, and the fact that you are saying it shows what kind of person you are. The war on terror is necessary. And if Bush had not responded accordingly to the WMD intelligence given to him by FIVE ally governments, the U.N., and our CIA, Senate and Clinton Administration, it would have been profoundly irresponsible. A terrorist government that has used WMD's on its own citizens and is a severe enemy of the United States and has violated our ceasefire for 12 years, mostly on terrorism grounds, has to go. Do you even admit that there is something to be concerned about there? Tell me something else... If Iraq ends up being a successful democracy not run by terrorists and that doesn't have a severely oppressed population, like it did under Hussein's government, will you consider that something good? Or will you be disappointed? You are really a sick person for saying your crap when we are dealing with something so serious. It's easy for you to do that in your nice little nobody place that you know damn well is under the protection of us. And your refusal to go off about Al Qaeda and so forth proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that your agenda here is not rooted in being against violence. There is something else going on. I know what it is.

Originally Posted by Neruo

This is a "Philosophy" forum so let's look at the last post from that perspective:

You see "freedom" is a very relative term. Could you please tell me in what way Irag was not free. Or eaven better why should you care about Iraq not being free? Why should America dictate the meaning of the term "freedom"? Why not leave Iraq alone? After all...they're only around 300-400 years behind America. They are never going to "see the light" if you try and make them. Stop sticking your noses where they don't belong. Leave them alone and you'll be left alone.
But you guys know why you realy went to Iraq and Afghanistan.
[/b]

Uh, you need to read up on what kind of government Hussein was running. Do you know anything about it? I HIGHLY disagree with this recurring notion that a government has a right to oppress its people as much as it wants. That is like saying that abusive parents have a right to run their households as they see fit. No they don't!

This thread should commit suicide.