Thread: America & Obsession

This thread should commit suicide.

Originally Posted by peaches

This thread should commit suicide.
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Oh, okay. That wins the argument.

Originally Posted by peaches;

This thread should commit suicide.

You are in love with your country, congradulations, please marry her.

I will say, I do not care about your wars of terror, congradulations, I hope war make you happy.

I mean, if you had to be in Iraq, I think your view will not change... right? Because you are a brave warrior... Good for you. You say you care for your country, your army, but you are not there, it is easy for you like this to say everything you say.
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That does not qualify as a counter argument. People resort to what you are doing when they can't win an argument.

Let's go off on your strange tangent for a moment. Do you support anything the police do? Are you a cop? How easy it must be to say rapists and murderers should be arrested when you are not a cop yourself.

Do you have anything nice to say about how we helped you win WWII or how we did so much to make communism fall in your country? Anything?

Universal, the American army did kill at least half a million innocent people in Iraq. Every source tells you that but the source from the American government, isn't that strange.

Man, I wonder how you will react when after the elections and the upcoming retreat everyone will openly say the war was a failure. I guess then you will just avoid the topic.

Go into fucking Iraq you, go find out how your brainwashed troops are spreading democracy, especially in the form of bullets. Go to Iraq. Or even better, go live in Iraq. Wear a turban, don't speak any english, and try not to get fucking shot. But you are a pussy.

-

And to your bragging about America's great deeds in wars: Since you love the American Army of WW2 and you love the American's Army war of terror today, do you love the vietnam war too? Man yeah, you thought those commies a lesson didn't you.

I am glad to know large number of people are not as stupid as I though in your country, and oppose the war like they did after the horrors of vietnam. I hope you will listen to the veterans of the war for once, instead of lsitening to your president that needs some verbal lessons, and some nintendo DS's Brain Training against his althzheimer.

Originally Posted by Universal

Yeah, this stuff is so irrelevant. Once again, you made a comment that really adds to the conversation. Maybe this is where you should start arguing that political philosophy is not philosophy, or that casual philosophical conversations should never involve mentionings of opinion.
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Friend, I do not want to argue. All of my posts were with the intention of deterring the amount of aggression - not to justify my opinions of America. If you cast your attention to the posts, you will notice that they are of aggressive nature and show little (or no) civil debate or discussion. They are argumentative and strewn with ad hominems. People are free to express that they do not like America just in the same way you are free to say otherwise. I am not sure what your goal is - possibly to have everyone turn around and admit, "Oh yeah, you're right - I'm an asshole for not recognizing all the nice things America has done." There are people who have reasons for feeling alienated and disrespect towards America, enough that they would post it on an internet forum - respect that. And don't be so coy to believe that people's disrespect towards America is derived from jealousy - that is exactly what a politician would say, which does not resolve any problems whatsoever but exacerbates them.

~

Originally Posted by O

Friend, I do not want to argue. All of my posts were with the intention of deterring the amount of aggression - not to justify my opinions of America. If you cast your attention to the posts, you will notice that they are of aggressive nature and show little (or no) civil debate or discussion. They are argumentative and strewn with ad hominems. People are free to express that they do not like America just in the same way you are free to say otherwise. I am not sure what your goal is - possibly to have everyone turn around and admit, "Oh yeah, you're right - I'm an asshole for not recognizing all the nice things America has done." There are people who have reasons for feeling alienated and disrespect towards America, enough that they would post it on an internet forum - respect that. And don't be so coy to believe that people's disrespect towards America is derived from jealousy - that is exactly what a politician would say, which does not resolve any problems whatsoever but exacerbates them.

~
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Friend, I am always very determined to be logical with my points, and that is what I have done in this thread. But of course I will insult people who are disrespectful toward me. That is not illogical. If it were all I do, like in your case, that would be illogical responding. Immediately after a long post of mine where I made many points that I consider logical, you said nothing to counter a word I said and instead insulted my posts by insulting the thread. Your suicide point came immediately after that long post. Don't waste your time trying to act like you are not trying to be provocative. That is extremely passive-aggressive of you. Other than talking about how America sucks, insulting topics, threads, and posters is all I have seen you do so far. Instead of talking about how bad you think my country sucks and how bad you think certain threads suck, you should try engaging in discussion on other points. I was very specific with the facts regarding the Hussein regime and the justifications for the war in Iraq. You dishonestly are trying to convey the message that all I said was, "We're great. If you don't admit it, you are jealous." I argued facts about our current crisis in great detail. If you cannot counter my points, then have a nice day.

Originally Posted by O

Universal, the American army did kill at least half a million innocent people in Iraq. Every source tells you that but the source from the American government, isn't that strange.

Man, I wonder how you will react when after the elections and the upcoming retreat everyone will openly say the war was a failure. I guess then you will just avoid the topic.

Go into fucking Iraq you, go find out how your brainwashed troops are spreading democracy, especially in the form of bullets. Go to Iraq. Or even better, go live in Iraq. Wear a turban, don't speak any english, and try not to get fucking shot. But you are a pussy.

-

And to your bragging about America's great deeds in wars: Since you love the American Army of WW2 and you love the American's Army war of terror today, do you love the vietnam war too? Man yeah, you thought those commies a lesson didn't you.

I am glad to know large number of people are not as stupid as I though in your country, and oppose the war like they did after the horrors of vietnam. I hope you will listen to the veterans of the war for once, instead of lsitening to your president that needs some verbal lessons, and some nintendo DS's Brain Training against his althzheimer.
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I am a pussy for supporting the war? Huh? Let me know when you are ready to make some sense. And once again.... the war is about the rest of history. You keep saying that the current chaos, which of course is going to exist right after your free a nation that was under an oppressive, fear mongering, terrorist, genocidal dictatorship for so long, is the determining factor regarding the success of the war. That is a fallacious point. I keep telling you that, and you ignore my point and go right back to your same old recurring point. Tell me what you know about the long term future of Iraq. That is what this war is about. You don't turn something like Iraq into Disney World overnight. I challenge you to address that instead of making your repeatedly countered point about the current insurgency, the one you blame us for entirely and do not blame on the insurgents themselves. THAT is highly illogical.

The half a million statistics you are getting come from fringe lunatics. The "Iraqi Body Count" site is anti-war, but it still says 44 thousand, as so many other sources. But the mass killings of civilians, whatever the numbers, are being committed by the insurgents you have yet to go off about. Are you ever going to do that? I'm not holding my breath on that one. If I thought killing was what your problem is really with, I would expect it, but I know what you are really about. Your extreme passion against a country that has little to do with yours and is on the other side of the Atlantic speaks volumes. But thank you again for you extreme interest in, I mean absolute obsession with, my country. What's the name of yours again?

freggin terrorist insurgents piss me off. They dont even fight like real men. They hide amongst civilians and they pack cars with IEDs and just drive around and kill themelves, along with others, including civilians. Yet, once again, its AMERICA\'S fault. Not the people who are actually doing the killing. I have seen this before in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki thread McGyver started. To them, it didnt matter that Japan started the whole mess. America still handled it wrong in their view.

These fanatical Muslims think they will spread their faith by killing themselves. Are they retarded? It just makes the entire world hate them (expect for some people here). They dont even follow the teachings of their beloved book, the Kuran. It stated that no true muslim will raise arms against another human being. The jihad, or holy war, is meant to spread the word of islam through words and understanding, not by opression and murder. Yet they continue to do it until there will be none of them left. They will either kill themselves off or be slaughtered by foreign armies. Best of luck to them...

They dont even fight like real men.[/b]

hey just wondering, what would be fighting like real men?

anyways yah wtf is wrong with suicide bombers...how can you be more selfish then kill people here on earth just so You can have a special place in heaven? its even worse when they dont have a real cause for doing it. I guess the religious violence that happens in the middle east can easily be compared to the religious wars in europe a few hundred years ago. yah ive always wondered if the religious violence is cause by ppl twisting the message and misinterpreting the meaning or is the violence, kill all enemies stuff, really in the the scripture. from reading the book of joshua...even god got in on the killing action. But either way I think there is a gap..were religious ppl are waiting for God to lead them...but there of course is no leading God, so warlords etc fill in the gap. and in conclusion Benny Hinn is my hero because he knows how to make millions filling in that gap...what a guy!

They are efektiv.....

They bring terror, that is why they use them. What is more simple?

exactly man, thats why religion is so dangerous. When god doesnt show up for a couple hundred years, people take it into their own hands and start killing people. It has happend countless times in history. And it will happen again. On a LARGE scale. I predict a fanatical Christian leading a strong nation (maybe America) will start his own holy war aginst budhists and muslims. It\'ll be Hitler all over again.

We need to take religion for what it REALLY is. Christians hide behind the doctrine that Christians are the most peaceful and caring people on earth, when really they (not all of them) practice exclusion and hate. Fanatical Muslims are the worst at this. To them, if you are not one of them you are to be killed. There are exceptions, such as Budhism. But the religions that worship a single god are generally the most fanatical and hateful. Therefore, i say we bail on religion. Unfortunately i would either have to become god myself or kill off 98% of the world\'s population to achieve that goal..........i better get started now!!!

o yea, fighting like a man is when you have a gun and the other dude has a gun, and you duke it out. Although we use cruise missiles and guided bombs, which is kinda sissy, we do it to save civilian lives. Suicide bombers do the exact oposite.

Originally Posted by peaches

They are efektiv.....

They bring terror, that is why they use them. What is more simple?
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But terror for what purpose? They are driving the West way away from and in many cases against Islam. They are creating a growing climate of prejudice against Muslims in the West. They have gotten two Islamic countries taken over by Western nations. They are keeping Western forces in Iraq. They are getting Muslims killed by the boat loads. What the Hell are they doing that helps their overall cause? They are the biggest idiots on the face of the Earth.

Gee, I think I'll go be a Muslim now. Where do I sign up?

Originally Posted by peaches

anyways yah wtf is wrong with suicide bombers...how can you be more selfish then kill people here on earth just so You can have a special place in heaven? its even worse when they dont have a real cause for doing it. I guess the religious violence that happens in the middle east can easily be compared to the religious wars in europe a few hundred years ago. yah ive always wondered if the religious violence is cause by ppl twisting the message and misinterpreting the meaning or is the violence, kill all enemies stuff, really in the the scripture. from reading the book of joshua...even god got in on the killing action. But either way I think there is a gap..were religious ppl are waiting for God to lead them...but there of course is no leading God, so warlords etc fill in the gap. and in conclusion Benny Hinn is my hero because he knows how to make millions filling in that gap...what a guy!
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Hey man, two thumbs way up on saying that. You are THE FIRST person who has been arguing against U.S. foreign policy here to go off against the insurgents like that. I was actually shocked when I read it. Thank you for saying that stuff, and congratulations on your status as a ground breaking pioneer. For real.

Now let's see if the others feel the same way.

Originally Posted by Hard

freggin terrorist insurgents piss me off. They dont even fight like real men. They hide amongst civilians and they pack cars with IEDs and just drive around and kill themelves, along with others, including civilians. Yet, once again, its AMERICA\'S fault. Not the people who are actually doing the killing. I have seen this before in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki thread McGyver started. To them, it didnt matter that Japan started the whole mess. America still handled it wrong in their view.

These fanatical Muslims think they will spread their faith by killing themselves. Are they retarded? It just makes the entire world hate them (expect for some people here). They dont even follow the teachings of their beloved book, the Kuran. It stated that no true muslim will raise arms against another human being. The jihad, or holy war, is meant to spread the word of islam through words and understanding, not by opression and murder. Yet they continue to do it until there will be none of them left. They will either kill themselves off or be slaughtered by foreign armies. Best of luck to them...
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Man, in the little world called your brainwashed skull you really see everyone with a turban as a terrorist.

The CIA fight like pussies way, way more then terrorist. CIA is more like placing bombs and poison. Total pussies. I actually understand 'terrorist', mostly the patriotistic type that just want to be left alone, yet think they are making a huge mistake. I do Not understand how such a great deal of the American population can be so stupid, blind and cruel.

You fanatical nationalist think you can spread their faith (democracy, somethink you don't have) by killing people (and themselves, like 5 a day in war). Are you retarded?

Your Christian government, espcially Bush how claimes to love jesus, isn't exactly doing what jesus would have wanted to. Also, I think the founding fathers would think your government is totally retarded. You really think the founding fathers and the first presidents would like to see America acting like a total agressive yet pussy asshole in the world?

Actually, the people you are calling terrorist are growing in numbers quite fast. Most of them just want to get rid of the occupation, and don't like bin laden. But thanks to you, you also created a whole lot of religous retards, some even bigger religious retards then the one you personally elected.

Without America (and isreal perhaps, but isreal couldn't exist without huge US financing), there wouldn't be much need for terrorism.

They do not care if they upset the West. They even blow up two appartment buildings in Moscow. Why you think we invade Checnya. But we are also bad for this, we probably kill many civilians on accident, and we may even invade Georgia for same reason, they kill innocent Russians there. We try to take care of Afghanistan before, but Amerika did not want this. Now it is your problem, we try but you helped them. I never say your war against Islam is wrong, we are fighting also.


I am mad with America, because

A. You ask Ukraine to join NATO...
B. You sell weapons to Georgia, they are terrorist country.

I don't care about Iraq, or how many civilians you kill, we probably have killed more....

You are Welcome.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Universal, the American army did kill at least half a million innocent people in Iraq. Every source tells you that but the source from the American government, isn't that strange.

Man, I wonder how you will react when after the elections and the upcoming retreat everyone will openly say the war was a failure. I guess then you will just avoid the topic.

Go into fucking Iraq you, go find out how your brainwashed troops are spreading democracy, especially in the form of bullets. Go to Iraq. Or even better, go live in Iraq. Wear a turban, don't speak any english, and try not to get fucking shot. But you are a pussy.

-

And to your bragging about America's great deeds in wars: Since you love the American Army of WW2 and you love the American's Army war of terror today, do you love the vietnam war too? Man yeah, you thought those commies a lesson didn't you.

I am glad to know large number of people are not as stupid as I though in your country, and oppose the war like they did after the horrors of vietnam. I hope you will listen to the veterans of the war for once, instead of lsitening to your president that needs some verbal lessons, and some nintendo DS's Brain Training against his althzheimer.
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ROFL&#33; I want to marry this post :333 <3

Originally Posted by Universal

That is extremely passive-aggressive of you. Other than talking about how America sucks, insulting topics, threads, and posters is all I have seen you do so far. Instead of talking about how bad you think my country sucks and how bad you think certain threads suck, you should try engaging in discussion on other points. I was very specific with the facts regarding the Hussein regime and the justifications for the war in Iraq. You dishonestly are trying to convey the message that all I said was, "We&#39;re great. If you don&#39;t admit it, you are jealous." I argued facts about our current crisis in great detail. If you cannot counter my points, then have a nice day.
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Firtly, please tell me how effective and "productive" this post is. I have not made ANY attempts to justify or explain my view of America whatsoever - so do not make the foolish mistake of thinking that I am antagonising the views of America as I knew, right from the beginning, that this thread would only end up in a situation like this. Hence, I made posts pleading to the destructive nature of the threads foundational premise.

You have obviously been insulted and feel disprespected but you significantly fail in recognizing that others feel the same way.

Do not expect me to post rebuttles to your view of America because I think it&#39;s absolutely ridiculous to bicker over such a topic - especially under "Philosophy" which seems to have been confused with "opinion". There is no knowledge here of anything except "who is right and wrong".

When you demand a rebuttle but try to destroy them before they are even posted, your guilty of an antagonistic nature. When I am trying to refer to you as my friend, not enemy, I am NOT being sarcastic.

Good God.

~

Originally Posted by Hard

freggin terrorist insurgents piss me off. They dont even fight like real men. They hide amongst civilians and they pack cars with IEDs and just drive around and kill themelves, along with others, including civilians. Yet, once again, its AMERICA&#092;&#39;S fault. Not the people who are actually doing the killing. I have seen this before in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki thread McGyver started. To them, it didnt matter that Japan started the whole mess. America still handled it wrong in their view.

These fanatical Muslims think they will spread their faith by killing themselves. Are they retarded? It just makes the entire world hate them (expect for some people here). They dont even follow the teachings of their beloved book, the Kuran. It stated that no true muslim will raise arms against another human being. The jihad, or holy war, is meant to spread the word of islam through words and understanding, not by opression and murder. Yet they continue to do it until there will be none of them left. They will either kill themselves off or be slaughtered by foreign armies. Best of luck to them...
[/b]

Yet again another insightful post by Hard as Nails :/

Not that I support it, but how is blowing yourself up cowardly? It&#39;s the most uncowardly thing you can do. How do you think they&#39;re trying to spread their faith doing this? Perhaps you&#39;re the one who&#39;s &#39;retarded&#39;, making these completely spontanious, brash, sweeping statements. A lot of islamic faiths require them to keep their country free of invaders and thats what they&#39;re trying to do.

I think America taking the initative, and, say, doing something is a lot better than sitting there in an awkward uneasy peace. Including Iraq. Invading Iraq hasn&#39;t panned out to be the best decision ever, no, but I can think of worse and I certainly think it was a lot better than just saying "hey, it&#39;s not our business".

Remember how many people were needlessly killed because of America&#39;s isolationist attitude last time? WWII history, anyone? Good thing it changed when it did. I can&#39;t say that I&#39;d rather have it that way around. No matter how many analysts you have, it is still a pretty tough call when it comes to invading a country or not - there&#39;s all sorts of factors I can&#39;t possibly imagine involved, and I don&#39;t fancy I could make the right decision myself - and so something like Iraq wasn&#39;t the right thing, maybe. But you have to do something. America can&#39;t exactly afford to look complacent.

Being a superpower isn&#39;t easy. I would expect it to be ribbed on a lot, and not every decision they make is good at all. At the end of the day, rather America be the dominant player than China. Rather there be a dominant player than a power vaccum. I wouldn&#39;t complain about America being "obsessed over". So all eyes are watching, you have to expect that.

EDIT: I agree with O&#39;nus when he says that the whole "hate America like you hate your boss" thing plays a factor. I have wondered at times, there is quite a lot of irrationality behind people&#39;s viewpoints. A lot of people seem to go to extremes in their hate for America (and especially George Bush), which makes me wonder what other factors make people think like that. It&#39;s not just "hating your boss". I hope.

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

EDIT: I agree with O&#39;nus when he says that the whole "hate America like you hate your boss" thing plays a factor. I have wondered at times, there is quite a lot of irrationality behind people&#39;s viewpoints. A lot of people seem to go to extremes in their hate for America (and especially George Bush), which makes me wonder what other factors make people think like that. It&#39;s not just like "hating your boss".
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A bit too reductionist as an analogy though as you say "It&#39;s not just like "hating your boss"", but I see the point

Originally Posted by O

Firtly, please tell me how effective and "productive" this post is. I have not made ANY attempts to justify or explain my view of America whatsoever - so do not make the foolish mistake of thinking that I am antagonising the views of America as I knew, right from the beginning, that this thread would only end up in a situation like this. Hence, I made posts pleading to the destructive nature of the threads foundational premise.

You have obviously been insulted and feel disprespected but you significantly fail in recognizing that others feel the same way.

Do not expect me to post rebuttles to your view of America because I think it&#39;s absolutely ridiculous to bicker over such a topic - especially under "Philosophy" which seems to have been confused with "opinion". There is no knowledge here of anything except "who is right and wrong".

When you demand a rebuttle but try to destroy them before they are even posted, your guilty of an antagonistic nature. When I am trying to refer to you as my friend, not enemy, I am NOT being sarcastic.

Good God.

~
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You are phony as a &#036;7 bill. Your statements have been nothing but antagonistic, particularly remarks about how the subjects and conversations suck. So again, either join the discussion or shut up. Your posts are not productive. Good God.

Originally Posted by O

I don&#39;t care about Iraq, or how many civilians you kill, we probably have killed more....

You are Welcome.
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Your posts are making less and less sense as you go.

I stand by my point that Islamofascists are morons. They are accomplishing nothing good for themselves, but they are destroying their religion&#39;s power in the world. The goal of the 9/11 attacks, for example, was to vent anger, to screw virgins, AND to get the U.S. to change its policy in their favor. The first goal was accomplished by only the ones who didn&#39;t participate, the second goal is a matter of delusion, and the third goal was severely missed, to the point of accomplishing the opposite result a million fold. They are idiots.

Originally Posted by O

Not that I support it, but how is blowing yourself up cowardly? It&#39;s the most uncowardly thing you can do. [/b]

It would be brave if they believed they are going to immediately be dead forever. What they really believe is that they are going straight to Paradise to screw 75 virgins. There is nothing brave about that. It is insane, but not brave. The biggest wuss on Earth would commit suicide if he thought he was going straight to a holy brothel forver.

Originally Posted by Universal

I stand by my point that Islamofascists are morons. They are accomplishing nothing good for themselves, but they are destroying their religion&#39;s power in the world. The goal of the 9/11 attacks, for example, was to vent anger, to screw virgins, AND to get the U.S. to change its policy in their favor. The first goal was accomplished by only the ones who didn&#39;t participate, the second goal is a matter of delusion, and the third goal was severely missed, to the point of accomplishing the opposite result a million fold. They are idiots.

It would be brave if they believed they are going to immediately be dead forever. What they really believe is that they are going straight to Paradise to screw 75 virgins. There is nothing brave about that. It is insane, but not brave. The biggest wuss on Earth would commit suicide if he thought he was going straight to a holy brothel forver.
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I don&#39;t know though, the only line in the Qur&#39;an that might be assumed to be about suicide is "O you who believe&#33; Do not consume your wealth in the wrong way-rather through trade mutually agreed to, and do not kill yourselves. Surely God is Merciful toward you." and another important one "And take not life, which Allah has made sacred, except by way of justice and law".

I guess that kinda goes with your comment though :/ Hm.

Originally Posted by Universal

Your posts are making less and less sense as you go.
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I thought original topic is "America & Obsession"..... Not about your war. I only giving my viewpoint from outside Europe and America.

Currently you speak about Islam suicide bombers. I beleive what need to be done now, is what we did during communism. We set up "boards"? to evaluate Islam, and control Islam. We close mosques in Afghanistan, only less than 200 when we left. Close the mosques...

No Mosque, no islam, no terrorists. They have no right to practice religon of terror.

America does not know how to "deal" with terrorists. I heard story of how we deal with them during communism, we arrest terrorists family. Grandparents, Children, "etc". Then they are gone forever, they never return. The reason terrorism is efektive for them against you, is that you will not do things like this.

You cannot negotiate, you cannot reason with them. You must ignore their terror, and give them real terror.

This is off-topic (sort of) but whats with all the Europe versus America topics? People from all over the world use this forum, can&#39;t we just get along?

Originally Posted by peaches

I thought original topic is "America & Obsession"..... Not about your war. I only giving my viewpoint from outside Europe and America.

Currently you speak about Islam suicide bombers. I beleive what need to be done now, is what we did during communism. We set up "boards"? to evaluate Islam, and control Islam. We close mosques in Afghanistan, only less than 200 when we left. Close the mosques...

No Mosque, no islam, no terrorists. They have no right to practice religon of terror.

America does not know how to "deal" with terrorists. I heard story of how we deal with them during communism, we arrest terrorists family. Grandparents, Children, "etc". Then they are gone forever, they never return. The reason terrorism is efektive for them against you, is that you will not do things like this.

You cannot negotiate, you cannot reason with them. You must ignore their terror, and give them real terror.
[/b]

Unfortunately, you might be right about that. We are going to do what we have to do to prevent an age of WMD terrorism, and that might involve very horrible tactics. I hope it does not come to that. As for now, I am hoping that liberating the Middle East, something that is good any way, will prevent the age of absolute horror we are trying to prevent.

Originally Posted by peaches

This is off-topic (sort of) but whats with all the Europe versus America topics? People from all over the world use this forum, can&#39;t we just get along?
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I am all for it. If people will stop calling my country a terrorist nation when we have troops with their necks on the line as we speak and stop insulting me personally for taking up for them, I will stop talking about all of this.

Originally Posted by Universal

Unfortunately, you might be right about that. We are going to do what we have to do to prevent an age of WMD terrorism, and that might involve very horrible tactics. I hope it does not come to that. As for now, I am hoping that liberating the Middle East, something that is good any way, will prevent the age of absolute horror we are trying to prevent.
I am all for it. If people will stop calling my country a terrorist nation when we have troops with their necks on the line as we speak and stop insulting me personally for taking up for them, I will stop talking about all of this.
[/b]

There are many different countries&#39; troops out in these places. I personally think that its better if &#39;terrorists&#39; have WMDs too. That way, mutually assured destruction is always a deterent from using them&#33; (Not readily available, you understand)