Thread: We're Animals Who Can Talk...

Bigger doesn't mean better

Bigger doesn't mean better[/b]

Yes it does. Well a animal that is bigger can adapt better then a smaller animal also it most likely to become the dominant species. Their only a few people mostly men that say that and that because they have small. Well you get what i mean.

if you believe that, tell me about the cockroach

and also why there arn't dinosaurs

if you believe that, tell me about the cockroach

and also why there arn't dinosaurs[/b]

Ok the cockroach can survive in harsh condition however it unlikely to become a domiant species and it has no intectual power like dolphins or rats or humans. Dinosaurs all died because of a meteor and a small group of the more adaptable dinosaur species evolved into birds. Bird themselves could become the dominat species because they have a good understanding of tools so they can evolve to use it however it will take a long time. Birds are actually really successful also their are more bird then humans 7 times more.

so brains makes you sucseesful, not size?

Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Ok the cockroach can survive in harsh condition however it unlikely to become a domiant species and it has no intectual power like dolphins or rats or humans. Dinosaurs all died because of a meteor and a small group of the more adaptable dinosaur species evolved into birds. Bird themselves could become the dominat species because they have a good understanding of tools so they can evolve to use it however it will take a long time. Birds are actually really successful also their are more bird then humans 7 times more.
[/b]

Are you listening to yourself? I know you are not serious. There is no way that birds can become the dominate species not in a million years. If that was the case for birds to have existed for supposedly millions of years then why are they not the dominate species now?

so brains makes you sucseesful, not size?[/b]

Yes however you need a big brain and some adaptable features.

Are you listening to yourself? I know you are not serious. There is no way that birds can become the dominate species not in a million years. If that was the case for birds to have existed for supposedly millions of years then why are they not the dominate species now?[/b]

Well birds have agreeded to exsist

Birds range in size from the tiny hummingbirds to the huge Ostrich and Emu. Depending on the taxonomic viewpoint, there are about 8,800–10,200 living bird species (and about 120–130 that have become extinct in the span of human history) in the world, making them the most diverse class of terrestrial vertebrates.[/b]

If we die out then their will be no restrication a good case would be rats. Now if their wasent any humans rat would get bigger however because we are here then their a selective pressure on rats to stay small because if they were big they would die because we can easily kill them. Without a humans then their would be a race for the next domiant species it likely going to be rats however birds are consider smart as they can use tools this may give them a advantage over rats. Some animals dont want to evolve i remeber asking my biology teacher a question on a species that basically reproduces by mitosis. I asked him isnt meiosis better and he said that if something fix dont change it so when a bird can survive why change itself. However if humans do die out or when global warming occurs the birds would have a selective pressure to change or evolve or die.

Moving back to the oprginal discussion involving the higher conciousness of other mammals,.
Becoming, please explain to me
WITHOUT LINKS
using your precious Science, how anaimals on numerous occasions have avoided natural disasters
Dont seek to claim this is a myth as it has happened numerous times
They have this instinct, that we do not have
I therefore state that this is a mjor way in which we are inferior to these mammals
explain to me
how, how, do they knw this.
If you seek to explain through science, post scientific explanations
if you seek to claim it is a myth
post your evidence
do not give me links
And by the way tying itno this subject, has anybody read about that girl from cambodia thats just been found after 18 years of living wild in the jungle?
And sloth is thereany chance you could link me up to the thread where you explain your time living wild?
Imran

Originally Posted by imran_p

Moving back to the oprginal discussion
Imran[/b]

Thanks

I began the topic arguing that the frontal lobe size doesn't make a dolphin more smart than humans. As this topic has progressed, I have had a complete change in my thoughts.

I believe insects are smarter than some humans.

carry on

Becoming, please explain to me
WITHOUT LINKS
using your precious Science, how anaimals on numerous occasions have avoided natural disasters
Dont seek to claim this is a myth as it has happened numerous times
They have this instinct, that we do not have
I therefore state that this is a mjor way in which we are inferior to these mammals
explain to me
how, how, do they knw this.
If you seek to explain through science, post scientific explanations
if you seek to claim it is a myth
post your evidence
do not give me links
And by the way tying itno this subject, has anybody read about that girl from cambodia thats just been found after 18 years of living wild in the jungle?
And sloth is thereany chance you could link me up to the thread where you explain your time living wild?
Imran[/b]

Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Yes however you need a big brain and some adaptable features.

Well birds have agreeded to exsist[/b]

Let me ask you this. Do you think we as human-beings have the ability to destroy every single species of birds to the point of endangered species?

Originally Posted by Ne

Let me ask you this. Do you think we as human-beings have the ability to destroy every single species of birds to the point of endangered species?
[/b]

Maybe, but it would be hard without killing some of us (if we were going to poison their food etc.)

using your precious Science, how anaimals on numerous occasions have avoided natural disasters[/b]

Well that a hard question as when a natural disasters occurs people generally look for people like dying children or adults they dont naturally count the dead animals. Also because for is really bad the people stuck in the diseaster tend to eat the animals. Plus you got the fact that where the disaster stick like in towns their isnt much animals like elephants or dogs around.

They have this instinct, that we do not have
I therefore state that this is a mjor way in which we are inferior to these mammals
explain to me[/b]

Well no, they might have different ear frequency so they can pick up vibration from earthquakes. However their is no evidence to support this and studies have shown that some dog go bersek when earthquakes are coming and other dog even if their the same species dont. Well your claim about instincts is proberly wrong see before disaster like earthquakes happen their tends to be smaller quakes if one aminal felt the shake then they will cause a herd reaction and they will migrate. The locals to normal quakes normally go away because their has been smaller quakes it just common sense and knowing your surrounding.
See you have stated a myth which arose out of the tsnami that occur last years. It was claimed their was no dead animals which was false. Ask yourself this if you were a animal and you had magical powers like you said and can sense a tsunami coming why would you stay their too die.

In terms of the subject of this thread, yes we are pretty much animals who can talk and wear clothes but there is such a big gap in terms of intelligence even between us and Chimpanzees. Humans have a highly developed form of intelligence which allows us to represent ourselves and the world and to therefore interact with our environment in higly complex ways.

Self-recognition is often cited as a sign of a relatively high level of intelligence, which it is. We were discussing this in a philosophy of mind lecture a while ago, and our lecturer was telling us about experiments with chimps and mirrors. Chimps can recognise themselves in mirrors - in fact one chimp seemed fascinated with his own mouth because he'd never seen inside it before - but their recognition is limited. They cannot, for example, recognise another chimp or person in the mirror, instead thinking that the other person and their reflection are seperate people.

Human thought is very highly complex and capable of abstract thinking. Our use of language is a great example of this, and while some animals are capable of limited communication, there is no way they'd be able to match our ability regardless of how they vocalise. Dolphins might be able to communicate, but there's no way they'd be able to engage in such complex things as poetry - metaphor and similie takes an immense amount of intelligence above what is normally exhibited in animals.

Very nice Roller I also agree.

tommroow morning as soon as Im up I'll give you a repsnse. Becoming, with evidence for this mystical sixth sense that animals do have.
As it is im tired and this could be a time consuming post =)
Just to let you know im not gonna leave you hanging
Imran
=D

You guys need to define the word "dominant" before you argue about who or what is dominant.

Humans are animals that are very smart. The are very numerous but not more so than termites or ants. Maybe there were other smart species, such as a species of dinosaur, that are now extinct. All the evidence may be long gone.

I find it hard to believe a chimp can't recognize people in the mirror, and thinks that the reflection is seperate from the real person. My cat can do that . I am not saying he is especially smart, or looks at himself and recognizes himself, but when I come up behind him in the mirror, he turns around and looks at me, and isn't suprized. (We have a big mirror in the basement, and he watches the room in it, and I try to sneak up on him just to see what he will do.)

I don't think you need a mystical 6th sense to be able to predict natural phenomenon; modern people have just lost their ability to use their regular senses when it comes to nature.

I think the connection that is obvious between humans and (higher) animals is emotions. No they can't do calculus but we all know what fear is like.

Just one interesting thing, there was a study done in the medieval times (I don't agree with the method of study) where a king wanted to know, if a child never learned a language then what language would it know?

The King then took a peasant baby and had it cared for in every way but it was forbidden that hte caretakers ever talk to it. when the child was in it's teens it was taken to the King the king asked it what language do you know?
It was soon discovered the child didn't know any language at all and every attempt to teach it a language failed.
The child was in a animalistic state of unawareness.

My point here is that we evolved vocal ranges far beyond our animal cousins, that without we wouldn't be conscious of much other than our need to eat, instinct toward the sex drive and our need to stay warm and dry. We would not be engineering or even social. we would be much like the orangutan.

The 100 monkey theory shows us that Baboon tribes in an environment close to other Baboon community's learn skills from each other that they then teach in their tribe to perpetuate awareness. Baboons use an average of 100 to 200 word vocabulary.

We are not that much greater than our animal cousins, so yes I believe we are advanced animals.

Advanced in which way?
I bleive we are less than them, far less
In ratio to leves of maturity we live for a shorter time span
we kill oursleves, which they dont do
we ethnic cleanse, they kill for food or for survival,
but they wont kill a member of there own spieces for the hell of it
which humans are more than capable of
We are much more and much much less
Man is born free, but within a very few years we are in chains, chained by societys core influences, greed, ambition, and all else that is materialstic.
And in this we lose our instincts, we trust science instead of oursleves.
I guranatee that most people on that beach, when the tsuanmi, felt an air of wrongnes, that sometihng was wrong.
Bu they ignored that slight felling of unease.
I know that when im in a place when something bad is going to hapen , tend to have an inkling.

Becoming, sorry about the lack of reply, i'll do it later,

=D

Imran

Human thought is very highly complex and capable of abstract thinking. Our use of language is a great example of this, and while some animals are capable of limited communication, there is no way they'd be able to match our ability regardless of how they vocalise. Dolphins might be able to communicate, but there's no way they'd be able to engage in such complex things as poetry - metaphor and similie takes an immense amount of intelligence above what is normally exhibited in animals.[/b]

Actaully no. Dolphins have very complex communication and have been noted to sing in large groups. As we cant decipher a dolphin language then we cant say they dont do poetry. I have heard their is about thousand different sounds a dolphin can make and all it language seems random however the level they can work together suggest that it not and it highly complex and has a structure like a chinese language. Have you heard the language of Icelandic well times that by a thousand and you will see the difficulty of understanding cercian language. Also the bottlenose dolphins has the same level of development of vocal functions as ours and because that it their main sensory device it is about 80% more developed them humans. Also they have teachers in a dolphin society so they do communicate more then go their. Also if a dolphin is going to die a person from their tribe is always with them meaning they understand death as no other animals accept humans do that.

As I pointed out earlier comparing the two does not give due credit to either species.
Each species is more component in some areas and inept in others.

IMO.. Human as an overall species, are more developed. We have been in an environment that has allowed us to develop such a wide range of traits that we have.

IMO.. Human as an overall species, are more developed. We have been in an environment that has allowed us to develop such a wide range of traits that we have.[/b]

Rats have the most traits so does that make them more developed then us.

Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Rats have the most traits so does that make them more developed then us.
[/b]

Nope unless you can show me a Rat who can fly a plane.

Nope unless you can show me a Rat who can fly a plane.[/b]

Stewert little can fly a airplane

Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Rats have the most traits so does that make them more developed then us.
[/b]

Aside from Stewart Little of coarse..

The Rat > Can survive Chernobyl

The Human >
accepts authority, loyal, devoted
affectionate
Ambitious, motivated
aspiring
candid caring
change; accepts, cheerful
considerate, thoughtful
cooperative
courageous
mature modest vain open-minded, tolerant
sinceresocial independence
sympathetic
takes others point of view
thoughtful towards others trustingunpretentious unselfish
willing does, willingness
achieves
adventurous
conventional
alert
aware of opportunities
calm
clean
clear goals
clear thoughts
comprehends
conscious
conscious of one's weaknesses
constructive
content-oriented
creative
delegates
detail-oriented
develops mental capabilities
directed, has direction
dynamic
passive
educated
education exceed previous generation
education greater than present level of achievement
education greater than previous generation
efficient
effort taking
effort achieves results
energetic
enterprising
entrepreneurial
envisions the unseen
experienced (in area)
focused
goal-oriented
good
graceful
high goals
higher social interests
idea-driven
imaginative
improves self
initiates (has initiative)
innovative
conservative
insightful
intelligent
knowledgeable
leads others
motivated
objective
subjective
observant
organized
patient
polite, mannere
professional (acts)
professional qualification achieved
resourceful
responsible
results-oriented
sees the whole picture
seeks improvement
spiritual, inner connection
trustworthy
wealthwealth in present generation
well-behaved
work is in harmony with personal life
parents motivated, gave direction
parents rose & accomplished
prosperity in family upbringing
prosperity in surrounding society
capacity to judge others
careful, graceful with objects
communication skills
(can) exercise authority
leadership skills
listening skills
management skills
motivating skills
negotiating skills
organization skills
planning skills
problem-solving skills
public speaking skills
reconciling problems
skilled, talented exceptionally in particular area
speaking skillsteamwork skills
technical work skills
time management skills
verbal skill swriting skills