Thread: What's Out There?

Originally Posted by petersonad

They say black holes are what links us to other parts of our universe. It may have been said that they link us to different universes, but I'm not sure. But if this were true, then white holes would also exist. White holes are the theoretical exit points to a black hole. They emit matter, that has been absorbed through the black hole. Which is similar to water entering and then shooting out of a hose. Matter entering a black hole and then shooting out of a white hole.[/b]

Black holes exist, not just in every universe, but in every galaxy. They consume all light and matter in their path, and as for what happens to it... No-one really knows. People can only really theorize about the possibilities of black holes. Many think that matter entering a black hole, though not destroyed (b/c matter can never really be destroyed), is transformed into something else. The result would be chaos. There are a few that like to theorize that going through a black hole would just take you either forward or backward through time. Though in all reality, no-one knows. Scientists can make up all the theories they want, but none of them really know whats going on w/ black holes. Besides, there are also worm holes to wonder about... It seems like they would be the actual way to get from one universe to another (or even one dimension to another). Oh well, like I said previously, no-one knows.

Originally Posted by petersonad

They say black holes are what links us to other parts of our universe. It may have been said that they link us to different universes, but I'm not sure. But if this were true, then white holes would also exist. White holes are the theoretical exit points to a black hole. They emit matter, that has been absorbed through the black hole. Which is similar to water entering and then shooting out of a hose. Matter entering a black hole and then shooting out of a white hole.[/b]

Did you just make that up?

Black holes don't work like that. Black holes wouldn't be black holes if they spewed out their crap. The only time when they spew out crap is when they explode. Black holes theoretically link to other black holes, or the same, but in a different place, if I recall correctly.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Did you just make that up?

Black holes don't work like that. Black holes wouldn't be black holes if they spewed out their crap. The only time when they spew out crap is when they explode. Black holes theoretically link to other black holes, or the same, but in a different place, if I recall correctly.[/b]

It was a theory I've seen on a Science Channel documentary. If the black hole links to another black hole, how is something going to get out on the other end. When the other end is sucking up everything? That's where the concept of white holes came in. Something I did not make up, but it was what they said on the documentary.

Originally Posted by petersonad

It was a theory I've seen on a Science Channel documentary. If the black hole links to another black hole, how is something going to get out on the other end.[/b]

NOT. It might come as a surprise, but I don't think black holes are 'made' for travel in any way.

When the other end is sucking up everything?[/b]

'Other end'? A black hole IS a black hole because of the matter gravity sucked up. A black hole simply is matter so condense it has enough gravity to attract photons (light) and prevent them from escaping (hence the black-ness).

That's where the concept of white holes came in. Something I did not make up, but it was what they said on the documentary.[/b]

Well ok I am sorry, I didn't know it was on tv. Still sounds funny to me. Lets say there IS a 'gateway' of some sort. Why would the matter at that side be able to escape gravity?

I've read about the theoretical white holes as well. But like mentioned above, there are none inside of our universe. The only option would be that they exist in another universe.

White holes are theorized to be the exact opposite of a black hole Neuro, so on the other side, there is no gravity for the matter to escape. Instead, it is impossible for matter to go into a white hole.

Originally Posted by Neruo

NOT. It might come as a surprise, but I don't think black holes are 'made' for travel in any way.
'Other end'? A black hole IS a black hole because of the matter gravity sucked up. A black hole simply is matter so condense it has enough gravity to attract photons (light) and prevent them from escaping (hence the black-ness).
Well ok I am sorry, I didn't know it was on tv. Still sounds funny to me. Lets say there IS a 'gateway' of some sort. Why would the matter at that side be able to escape gravity?[/b]

The theory is that black-holes tear holes through time and space. And if you were to travel through the hole, like a worm-hole, you will eventually exit through the other end. The white-hole is that other end. And functions the complete opposite of the black hole. There is no gravity pulling anything inward. Instead, it is pushing everything outward, that had been sucked in from the black hole. Like dropping a ball down a gutter and then watching it fall out. The same goes for the black-hole and white-hole theory. That was the general tone of the documentary.

Originally Posted by petersonad

The theory is that black-holes tear holes through time and space. And if you were to travel through the hole, like a worm-hole, you will eventually exit through the other end.[/b]

No, actually you will totally be obliterated before you get anywhere near the center of the black hole.

The white-hole is that other end. And functions the complete opposite of the black hole. There is no gravity pulling anything inward. Instead, it is pushing everything outward, that had been sucked in from the black hole.[/b]

But gravitons CAN'T go trough?

Like dropping a ball down a gutter and then watching it fall out. The same goes for the black-hole and white-hole theory. That was the general tone of the documentary.[/b]

It seems a bit far-fetched to me, and I didn't hear any good proof. If it was true, black holes would eventually disappear, they would spew all their matter away trough the white hole. Black holes ARE matter, nothing else.

Even if some vortex would appear in the middle of the black hole, it would be completely impossible for us to travel trough. I would like to hear why black holes didn't disappear according to that theory.

There was the Hawkin's paradox, some show on that a long while back. It said how that all the matter that gets sucked in, is also given off at the same time or something.
I like the idea of time slowing down when you reach a certain point past the 'event horizion'. Can gravity really have that much of an affect on time? (I guess it can if time is a measurement based on 3d interactions. So if the 3d parts were forced in such a small point, time might not exist)

I'm not familiar with Hawkin's paradox, but that simply sounds like the conservation of mass to me.

I think Hawkins' Paradox was that when you put something in a black hole, it was effectively removed from the universe. Therefore, you could decrease the overall entropy of the universe by putting high-entropy things in the black hole. he resolved this through quantum mechanics, by postulating that black holes are constantly sucking in antimatter. I'm not sure whose idea it actually was, but it's a common idea in quantum mechanics that equal amounts of matter and antimatter are constantly being randomly generated, but usually they cancel each other out.

It was the second law of thermodynamics, and it doesn't seem to me like he had to go along that line of reasoning. I would have just decided that black holes were in a state of maximum entropy.

This discussion is really interesting, but it totally blows my mind!

I think what matters is that the Universe always has a constant evolution, it always expands. Now black holes either suck in matter to other dimensions or they suck it so it goes some other place in our universe. If the Universe was limited and the blackhole sent matter to some other place inside this universe, then I guess the Universe wouldn't espand, as everything would always have a limited place to be in. If the matter was sent to some other dimension, then the universe would expand as it would have new spaces to do so. If it is unlimited it can expand freely, no matter what.

Even if the black holes do send matter to some other place inside the Universe, it still is trasported through some sort of hole in time and space. If this could be possible, then other dimensions would be proven.

I would be thankful if someone could clarify this to me, since I know very little about black holes, does matter disappear in them or does it stay inside them? Or maybe nobody knows...

Black holes increase in mass when they suck things in, so it's not going somewhere else. The matter stays inside them.

According to Wikipedia's article on white holes, white holes are impossible. However, some speculate that each black hole is universe of its own. Since the only support for this is the Big Bang, I don't like it much.

What is really weird, is that they suck in light. You would think that it would be really bright if they exploded, releasing all the photons that were being held back.

Gravity is weird, it affects light...

Originally Posted by Brilliand

Black holes increase in mass when they suck things in, so it's not going somewhere else. The matter stays inside them.

According to Wikipedia's article on white holes, white holes are impossible. However, some speculate that each black hole is universe of its own. Since the only support for this is the Big Bang, I don't like it much.[/b]

Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source for scientific theory. How can you measure the mass of a black hole?

Originally Posted by person

What is really weird, is that they suck in light. You would think that it would be really bright if they exploded, releasing all the photons that were being held back.

Gravity is weird, it affects light...[/b]

Ligh is particles too : )

Also, white holes are really improbable, hell, we hardly know anything about black holes yet. What we do know, is that they keep sucking up shit, and don't just get smaller ^__^

Light travels as an electromagnetic wave and acts upon materials like a particle. It isn't actually made of matter.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

Light travels as an electromagnetic wave and acts upon materials like a particle. It isn't actually made of matter.[/b]

Yeah You are right, I got my facts mixed up, light just acts as particles... Still, they Can be attacked by gravity somehow.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source for scientific theory. How can you measure the mass of a black hole?[/b]

That particular Wikipedia article cites its sources. I checked the source, and it looked right.

The first two methods that come to mind for measuring the mass of a black hole are measuring its radius (the radius of a black hole is directly proportional to its mass) and measuring its gravitational effect on nearby objects (which, again, will be directly proportional to its mass). I'm pretty sure that both are doable.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

Yeah You are right, I got my facts mixed up, light just acts as particles... Still, they Can be attacked by gravity somehow.[/b]

All forms of energy have mass. Matter is just a special case of energy. On a very small scale, the difference between a wave and a particle vanishes. Wikipedia includes the formula for finding the wavelength of any particle in its "Wavelength" article.

Particles can have wavelenghts, but to electromagnetic waves have mass?

The equivalence of mass and energy, E=MC², goes both ways. It isn't a conversion rate, it's an equivalence relation. An incredible amount of energy will have a small amount of mass, though. It takes enough to blow up cities to have a noticeable mass. To put it in perspective, melting a lump of iron would take less than a trillionth of the mas of that lump.

That didn't really answer my question.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

That didn't really answer my question.[/b]

The answer is yes. Electromagnetic waves have energy, just like everything else, and therefore mass.

Electromagnetic waves have no matter.
Objects at absolute zero would have matter, and mass, but no energy. The two don't always coincide.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

Electromagnetic waves have no matter.
Objects at absolute zero would have matter, and mass, but no energy. The two don't always coincide.[/b]

At absolute zero, or as close as it is possible to get it (radiation keeps warming the bomb up), a fission bomb will still explode. That's a lot of energy. Heat is only one form of energy - atoms are another, or rather a combination of others.

Energy has mass, even though it isn't matter (It doesn't occupy space). All energy has mass, and energy is immutable, at least as far as my knowledge goes. I get the impression that physicists are pretty hesitant to contradict the first law.