Thread: A Bohemian Lifestyle

interesting, i didn't know a whole lot about it (beyond having seen "rent" and known that, ironically enough, bohemian clothing is/was "in style").

as a somewhat tangential point, i often wonder about counter-cultures. when people recognize problems with mainstream ideas and/or reject the mainstream societal framework, is it selfish to completely dissociate from the mainstream? (i think i'm talking about individuals in contemporary society, as opposed to actual counter-culture movements.) it's probably a lot more self-satisfying to just be free and independent, but is it more important to remain barely within the mainstream while maintaining your own perspective--so as to try to enact change in the framework of society? rather than being written off as radical?

random example: michael moore is a lot less effective in making conservatives more open-minded than someone who would sit down with conservatives, acknowledge their views, and then propose (in ways possibly compatible with their viewpoints) new ways of looking at things. but michael moore also might be happy that he's acting consistently with his views, while the person who sits down might feel like doing so is selling out. not that i'm trying to get political--just an example!

or, would you say that you do have to step completely outside of the confines of the mainstream framework to enact change in the revolutionary way that would be necessary in some cases?

i'll have to read up more on bohemianism. cool topic.

Great points, dude, but I think you're confusing revolutionaries with bohemains..
Yeah, it's selfish, I guess. Stepping out of the confines of the mainstream world to indulge yourself in a particular art, BUT you're also surrounding yourself with people and accepting them for who they are.

I don't think Bohemians want to change the world with their thoughts or ideas, they just say "Whatever dude, fuck the general opinion on a certain topic, I'm going to be myself and do what I want to do and say what I want to say." Tho' it sounds like some punkass teenage loser, I think there's more to it than that. It's more about being a community with artistic thinkers and being open to new ideas and keeping a fresh mind
Blah, I do a terrible job explaining it.
Here:
"La Vie Boheme"
by Jonathan Larson

MARK
To days of inspiration
Playing hookey, making something out of nothing
The need to express -
To communicate,
To going against the grain,
Going insane
Going mad
To loving tension, no pension
To more than one dimension,
To starving for attention,
Hating convention, hating pretension
Not to mention of course,
Hating dear old mom and dad
To riding your bike,
Midday past the three piece suits
To fruits - to no absolutes -
To Absolut - to choice -
To the Village Voice -
To any passing fad

ALL
La vie Boheme
La vie Boheme

MR. GREY
Ahhemm

MAUREEN
Hey Mister - she's my sister

WAITER
So that's five miso soup, four seaweed salad
Three soy burger dinner, two tofu dog platter
And one pasta with meatless balls

B0Y
Ugh

COLLINS
It tastes the same

MIMI
If you close your eyes

WAITER
And thirteen orders of fries
Is that it here?

ALL
Wine and beer!

MIMI AND ANGEL
To hand-crafted beers made in local breweries
To yoga, to yogurt, to rice and beans and cheese
To leather, to dildos, to curry vindaloo
To huevos rancheros and Maya Angelou

MAUREEN AND COLLINS
Emotion, devotion, to causing a commotion
Creation, vacation

MARK
Mucho masturbation

MAUREEN AND COLLINS
Compassion, to fashion, to passion when it's new

COLLINS
To Sontag

ANGEL
To Sondheim

GIRLS
To anything taboo

COLLINS AND ROGER
Ginsberg, Dylan, Cunningham and Cage

COLLINS
Lenny Bruce

ROGER
Langston Hughes

MAUREEN
To the stage

PERSON 1
To Uta

PERSON 2
To Buddha

PERSON 3
Pablo Neruda, too

MARK AND MIMI
Why Dorothy and Toto went over the rainbow
To blow off Auntie Em

ALL
La vie Boheme

MR. GREY
Sisters?

COLLEN
We're close

ANGEL AND COLLINS
Brothers!

MARK, ANGEL, MIMI
Bisexuals, trisexuals, homo sapiens,
Carcinogens, hallucinogens, men, Pee Wee Herman
German wine, turpentine, Gertrude Stein
Antonioni, Bertolucci, Kurosawa
Carmina Burana

ALL
To apathy, to entropy, to empathy, ecstasy
Vaclav Havel - The Sex Pistols, 8BC,
To no shame - never playing the Fame Game

COLLINS
To marijuana

ALL
To sodomy,
It's between God and me
To S & M

BENNY
Waiter...Waiter...Waiter!!

ALL
La vie Boheme

MARK
In honor of the death of Bohemia an impromptu salon will
commence immediately following dinner... Mimi Marquez,
clad only in bubble wrap, will perform her famous lawn
chair-handcuff dance to the sounds of iced tea being stirred.

ROGER
Mark Cohen will preview his new documentary about his
inability to hold an erection on high holy days.

COLLINS
Maureen Johnson, back from her spectacular one-night engagement
at the eleventh street lot, will sing native american tribal
chants backwards through her vocoder, while accompanying herself
on the electric cello - which she has never studied.

MARK
Roger will attempt to write a bittersweet, evocative song.
(Roger picks up a guitar and plays)
That doesn't remind us of "Musetta's Waltz"

COLLINS
Angel Dumott Schunard will now model the latest fall fashions
from Paris while accompanying herself on the 10 gallon plastic
pickle tub.

ANGEL
And Collins will recount his exploits as an anarchist -
including the successful reprogramming of the M.I.T.
virtual reality equipment to self-destruct, as it broadcast
the words:

ALL
"Actual reality - Act Up - Fight AIDS"
Yea!!!

A GIRL
To Dance!

MIMI
No Way To Make A Living, Masochism,
Pain, Perfection,
Muscle Spasm, Chiropractors, Short-
Careers, Eating Disorders

ALL
Film

MARK
Adventure, Tedium, No Family, Boring
Locations,
Dark Rooms, Perfect Faces, Egos,
Money, Hollywood And Sleaze

ALL
Music

ANGEL
Food Of Love, Emotion, Mathematics,
Isolation,
Rhythm, Power, Feeling, Harmony,
And Heavy Competition

ALL
Anarchy

COLLINS & MAUREEN
Revolution, Justice, Screaming For
Solutions,
Forcing Changes, Risk, And Danger
Making Noise And Making Pleas

ALL
To Faggots, Lezzies, Dykes, Cross
Dressers Too

MAUREEN
To Me

MARK
To Me

COLLINS & ANGEL
To Me

ALL
To You, And You And You, You And You
To People living With, Living With,
Living With
Not Dying From Disease

Let He Among Us Without Sin
Be The First To Condemn

La Vie Boheme
La Vie Boheme
La Vie Boheme

MARK
Anyone Out Of The
Mainstream
Is Anyone In The
Mainstream?
Anyone Alive - With A
Sex Drive
Tear Down The Wall
Aren't We All
The Opposite Of War
Isn't Peace...
It's Creation

ALL
La Vie Boheme

La Vie Boheme

La Vie Boheme

La Vie Boheme

Viva La Vie Boheme!

Originally Posted by Armageddon_Heaven

Great points, dude, but I think you're confusing revolutionaries with bohemains..

haha good point.

Originally Posted by Armageddon_Heaven

Yeah, it's selfish, I guess. Stepping out of the confines of the mainstream world to indulge yourself in a particular art, BUT you're also surrounding yourself with people and accepting them for who they are.

I don't think Bohemians want to change the world with their thoughts or ideas, they just say "Whatever dude, fuck the general opinion on a certain topic, I'm going to be myself and do what I want to do and say what I want to say."

thanks for the clarification. i'm definitely intrigued.

Bohemianism as a counterculture I find to be silly... denying someone else's status quo while you create your own among your groupthinking peers. Well, counterculture for its own sake I find silly, Bohemian-flavor or not.

I don't live ascetically, but I don't buy frivolities either. The notion of dedicating - even marrying - yourself to your ideas, art, and own raw creativity, though, excites me to no end. It's something I wish I could push myself to. I already have the ideal - I see little point in living beyond inventing new and expressive things and enjoying the artistic creations of others - but little resolve to put it into action.

Originally Posted by Spamtek

Bohemianism as a counterculture I find to be silly... denying someone else's status quo while you create your own among your groupthinking peers. Well, counterculture for its own sake I find silly, Bohemian-flavor or not.

I don't live ascetically, but I don't buy frivolities either. The notion of dedicating - even marrying - yourself to your ideas, art, and own raw creativity, though, excites me to no end. It's something I wish I could push myself to. I already have the ideal - I see little point in living beyond inventing new and expressive things and enjoying the artistic creations of others - but little resolve to put it into action.

You think its silly to be your own person and ignore the status quo?
To not die and look back on your life as a slave to the mainstream ideals and goals?
I think THAT is silly =P

<shrug> But it's also about acceptance, it's cool for you to think that way ^_^

Originally Posted by Armageddon_Heaven

You think its silly to be your own person and ignore the status quo?
To not die and look back on your life as a slave to the mainstream ideals and goals?
I think THAT is silly =P

<shrug> But it's also about acceptance, it's cool for you to think that way ^_^

I think it's silly to be your own person for the sake of being your own person or to do it so you can mesh with your counterculture friends. I don't think it's silly to be your own person because you discover that it's the most fulfilling and validating way to travel through life as. But there will be people who discover that after lots of self-examination and soul-searching, that their honest values and ideals actually match that of the mainstream rather than that of a counterculture. For them, they can be "slaves" to mainstream ideals and get true satisfaction out of it, rather than trying to fit into counterculturalism just because somebody told them it's the only way to be an authentic human being and avoid being controlled by the man.

The counter-culture is a very important thing. Learning to live outside of the mainstream reinforces values and skills in ourselves that are normally lost when one becomes a gear in the machine. I personally have no need to rely on Costco or Walmart - in fact, I find the notion disgusting. People that I interact with on a day to day basis can't understand why I hate Starbucks or television. The mainstream is instilling fear into the masses to force them to become consumers, the only state in which people feel comfortable. This slowly pushes humanity away from art and music and free thought, which are the most important things in the world. I myself like to distance myself from all of these bad things so I can focus on my writing, or my music - I feel that I can purify myself through art and philsophy and slowly begin decode the meaning of the cosmos. A bohemian lifestyle is a very pure lifestyle that I wish everyone could enjoy - but in today's day and age it's nearly impossible to live like that, short of buying some land and living on a commune. (Which is also a good idea.)

I don't feel like I'm pressured into the counterculture - I honestly don't have any counterculture friend. I just feel extremely out of place in the mainstream.

Originally Posted by Fox Steals Fire

The counter-culture is a very important thing. Learning to live outside of the mainstream reinforces values and skills in ourselves that are normally lost when one becomes a gear in the machine. I personally have no need to rely on Costco or Walmart - in fact, I find the notion disgusting. People that I interact with on a day to day basis can't understand why I hate Starbucks or television. The mainstream is instilling fear into the masses to force them to become consumers, the only state in which people feel comfortable. This slowly pushes humanity away from art and music and free thought, which are the most important things in the world. I myself like to distance myself from all of these bad things so I can focus on my writing, or my music - I feel that I can purify myself through art and philsophy and slowly begin decode the meaning of the cosmos. A bohemian lifestyle is a very pure lifestyle that I wish everyone could enjoy - but in today's day and age it's nearly impossible to live like that, short of buying some land and living on a commune. (Which is also a good idea.)

I don't feel like I'm pressured into the counterculture - I honestly don't have any counterculture friend. I just feel extremely out of place in the mainstream.

Dude, your take on the whole thing is awesome. I totally admire your solid dedication to Bohemia. i've yet to completely conform to it, but your post has inspired me to work a little harder in removing the excess mainstream garbage out of my life.

Be prepared to give up the internet; and also being a productive member of society.

Originally Posted by Fox Steals Fire

The counter-culture is a very important thing. Learning to live outside of the mainstream reinforces values and skills in ourselves that are normally lost when one becomes a gear in the machine. I personally have no need to rely on Costco or Walmart - in fact, I find the notion disgusting. People that I interact with on a day to day basis can't understand why I hate Starbucks or television. The mainstream is instilling fear into the masses to force them to become consumers, the only state in which people feel comfortable. This slowly pushes humanity away from art and music and free thought, which are the most important things in the world. I myself like to distance myself from all of these bad things so I can focus on my writing, or my music - I feel that I can purify myself through art and philsophy and slowly begin decode the meaning of the cosmos. A bohemian lifestyle is a very pure lifestyle that I wish everyone could enjoy - but in today's day and age it's nearly impossible to live like that, short of buying some land and living on a commune. (Which is also a good idea.)

I don't feel like I'm pressured into the counterculture - I honestly don't have any counterculture friend. I just feel extremely out of place in the mainstream.

Look at you with your computer and your internet and your self righteousness.

Originally Posted by Armageddon_Heaven

You think its silly to be your own person and ignore the status quo?
To not die and look back on your life as a slave to the mainstream ideals and goals?
I think THAT is silly =P

<shrug> But it's also about acceptance, it's cool for you to think that way ^_^

Being different for the sake of being different isn't being your own person, its being pretty much just like everyone else. You can take your cues from movies like fight club, but don't think you're special because of it.

I've got a t-shirt for you.

They sell them at hot topic. They've sold millions. Now you can be different just like everybody else.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Look at you with your computer and your internet and your self righteousness.

As much as I would love to go live on a commune away from television and Starbucks I DO love the internet. Never before has there been such a vast collection of information available for anyone to access and never before has there been a place for anyone to speak their mind as freely as they've wanted to. I'm not against technology, necessarily, but I DO think that humans rely too much on things like gasoline and fast-food. It degrades us, making us less self-reliant. I hope for a time when humanity can shift away from this. I'm not trying to come off as "holier-than-thou", these are just my philosophical beliefs.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Being different for the sake of being different isn't being your own person, its being pretty much just like everyone else. You can take your cues from movies like fight club, but don't think you're special because of it.

I've got a t-shirt for you.

They sell them at hot topic. They've sold millions. Now you can be different just like everybody else.

Dude, first off, don't triple post -_-
And next, I wouldn't wear that shirt if you paid me.
I'm REALLY not into those stupid shirts that have those comical lines on them...I find them immature and the people who wear them desperate for others to look at them.
I ALSO think Hot Topic is retarded. Not only do they overprice all their shit, but it's like the other side of Hollister - two extremes at different ends of the pole, and I find those who shop there, especially at Hot Topic, to be just as bad as the conformists they say they're against.

Sure I'll buy clothes if the ones I have get too small, I just wouldn't go and get something that screams "stereotype". Blah, to be thought of like that makes me sick.

And by the way, kid, I don't think I'm anything special.
I know there are TONS of other people like me who also desire individualism. i'm sure millions of others are ALSO aware that others want individualism. And I'm also assured that there are others who are aware of others who are aware of others who don't want to conform to any mainstream fashion or ideal.

But you know what? I haven't met anyone who shares my exact same outlook and shares my exact same taste in clothing or my personality.
And yet I know a ton of clones who know other people who have exact outlooks and exact tastes in clothing and exact personalities.

As a bohemian, I strive hard NEVER to have that happen to me, and to look past it and see the thing that is most important to me - my art, which is theater.

So yeah, the words on the shirt ring true for me.
But the fact that it's created by Hot Topic and that according to you millions of "anarchists" and "rebels" have bought them, most wear the shirts are complete hypocrites. The fact that they're shopping at Hot Topic in the first place proves they're not as "different" as they would hope they are.

Thats pretty much exactly how I expected you to feel, which is why I posted it. You are so much like everyone else that you are predictable. Desperately trying to be different and so you avoid everything that could possibly make you normal like the plague. Well, I hate to break it to you but deep down we are all the same. We all want to feel special, we all want to be unique individuals. Even those among us who are scrambling to keep up with the latest fashion trends are doing it because they think if they get it quick enough everyone will think they started it.

You can't exactly be different when you search the internet for a pre-existing stereotype to label yourself as. You aren't an individual by calling yourself bohemian, you are simply aping someone else's individuality.

Also, just a side note; The song Bohemian Rhapsody is more pertinent than you seemed to think in your original post. The song is about living the bohemian lifestyle, getting aids and dying. Sounds like fun, huh?

As far as I know, there is no rule against "triple posting". Until I see otherwise, I'll continue to do it.

Yup, I was right; its not in the rules.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Well, I hate to break it to you but deep down we are all the same.

I have to agree with you there. When it comes down to it, all humans are the same. Our spirits are different and we have different personalities, but all humans are humans and we should all embrace the fact that we're alike.

Xaq, I didn't say it was against the rules.
It's just annoying and immature.
And I guess your right, calling myself a bohemian would bring me to that stereotype huh?
It's all a paradox - committing yourself to a group that says you shouldn't commit to any group! It's all confusing, and both sides of the argument make sense and have equal merit. I just choose to be on the other side of that spectrum.
As all paradoxes, there's no happy outcome.
Ah well, I'd rather be part of the paradox than the "solution".
Reminds me of that one line from La Vie Boheme:
"MARK: Anyone out of the Mainstream, is anyone In the Mainstream?"

All I think is that a person ought to be honest to himself and his own wants and desires. When I hear 'Bohemianism' and 'Counterculture' being tossed around, I get on edge because I can't understand a person who would look inside himself and find the high-order goal "I want to be a Bohemian" or "I want to be a member of the counter-culture." Those things don't mean anything by themselves. What I can see a person finding is "I want to be married to my art above all else," or "I want to form positive change in the world," or even the plain old vanilla "I want to have a productive and satisfying job, find a mate and start a family."

I see it like the analogy between money and the things money buys. Money has no point or value on its own but to purchase things that do have value. Sort of similarly, a counterculture on its own has no point that isn't granted it by the more specific interests of the people it makes up. If a group of people come to form a counterculture for its own sake, then it has no actual substance beyond its name; it's just a shallow attempt to be different, and in doing so is absolutely, horribly homogenous. If a bunch of people with eclectic and meaningful hobbies and interests coalesce into a countercultural body, that's a completely different scenario. That sort of counterculture has clout, but its formation can't be the actual aim of the people forming it, else it is artificial and, honestly, a stupid gesture.

edit: oh, and Xaq, triple-posting will win you no love with anyone.

Originally Posted by Spamtek

All I think is that a person ought to be honest to himself and his own wants and desires. When I hear 'Bohemianism' and 'Counterculture' being tossed around, I get on edge because I can't understand a person who would look inside himself and find the high-order goal "I want to be a Bohemian" or "I want to be a member of the counter-culture." Those things don't mean anything by themselves. What I can see a person finding is "I want to be married to my art above all else," or "I want to form positive change in the world," or even the plain old vanilla "I want to have a productive and satisfying job, find a mate and start a family."

I see it like the analogy between money and the things money buys. Money has no point or value on its own but to purchase things that do have value. Sort of similarly, a counterculture on its own has no point that isn't granted it by the more specific interests of the people it makes up. If a group of people come to form a counterculture for its own sake, then it has no actual substance beyond its name; it's just a shallow attempt to be different, and in doing so is absolutely, horribly homogenous. If a bunch of people with eclectic and meaningful hobbies and interests coalesce into a countercultural body, that's a completely different scenario. That sort of counterculture has clout, but its formation can't be the actual aim of the people forming it, else it is artificial and, honestly, a stupid gesture.

edit: oh, and Xaq, triple-posting will win you no love with anyone.

Good thing love isn't my aim. I'm not about to go back and edit a previous post when I think of something new to say just to appease you folks.

Originally Posted by Spamtek

All I think is that a person ought to be honest to himself and his own wants and desires. When I hear 'Bohemianism' and 'Counterculture' being tossed around, I get on edge because I can't understand a person who would look inside himself and find the high-order goal "I want to be a Bohemian" or "I want to be a member of the counter-culture." Those things don't mean anything by themselves. What I can see a person finding is "I want to be married to my art above all else," or "I want to form positive change in the world," or even the plain old vanilla "I want to have a productive and satisfying job, find a mate and start a family."

I see it like the analogy between money and the things money buys. Money has no point or value on its own but to purchase things that do have value. Sort of similarly, a counterculture on its own has no point that isn't granted it by the more specific interests of the people it makes up. If a group of people come to form a counterculture for its own sake, then it has no actual substance beyond its name; it's just a shallow attempt to be different, and in doing so is absolutely, horribly homogenous. If a bunch of people with eclectic and meaningful hobbies and interests coalesce into a countercultural body, that's a completely different scenario. That sort of counterculture has clout, but its formation can't be the actual aim of the people forming it, else it is artificial and, honestly, a stupid gesture.

edit: oh, and Xaq, triple-posting will win you no love with anyone.

You're completely right, that's why I get annoyed with "hippies" that I see around town. They're doing it to be part of a group or be out of the mainstream, but they've completely lost the idea of it all. They don't have the ideals or values that the hippies did back in the 60s, they don't live for the greater good, they're living to make themselves feel better or secure about themselves. It's just a name, sames as "counter-culture" and "mainstream". The best way to be original is to not try to fall into any category, but then again, that becomes a category in itself. There's not alot you can do about it.

^Exactly. The aim to be original is a paradox.
This entire thread is a paradox. The fact that I'm bringing it up is a paradox, and even the fact that there's a name for a Bohemian lifestyle creates a PARADOX!
Despite all this, I still stand by what I said before - I'll place my faith in the Paradox before I ever step foot into that simple solution; that easy ticket out that so many of us Americans love to cling onto.

I've been a bohemian since I squeezed out of my Mommy's vagina. I was never a materialist, always cared only for my writing and my loved-ones, letting shit like school slide. I'm a total spiritualist, and a rebel without a cause, and always have been.

I find it interesting that you find this volunteered poverty all over the world. Especially in religions (Buddhist monks chose poverty, as did and do some Christians).

Personally, I can understand where such people are coming from. We just get entangled in all the crap we own and such. I can certainly understand that someone with a free life, someone that has a poor and simple life but doesn't feel bad about it, could be better at focusing at their art or meditation.