Thread: War on the WRONG drugs

We've been discussing exactly that in Extended Discussion for the past few days. I'm totally with you. Our drug laws are inconsistent and illogical, as well as massly tragic. I gave my theory, and a new poster named Pwcca had a good explanation for what is going on.

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=40074

Since I agreed with Pwcca, I'll tell you my theory, which now incoprorates his. It probably has to do with the stigma psychedelic drugs received when counterculture agitators (hippies) in the 1960's associated their movement with marijuana, LSD, mushrooms, etc. Also, even though alcohol and tobacco are a Hell of a lot more dangerous than the psychedelics, they generally don't screw up social productivity. Marijuana doesn't kill people, but it makes them lazy when they do it too much, which many pot smokers do. The other psychedelics are so associated with marijuana that they are seen the same way. Also, there is probably a major religious factor. Alcohol and tobacco are not spiritual drugs like the psychedelics are, so religious fanatics see psychedelics as "false idols". The illegality of the wrong drugs has a lot to do with the dominating effect of Christian fundamentalism in Western culture.

thank you universal mind for the link!

Can't forget about Anslinger now can we? Harry Anslinger, who was the first head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, really opposed any kind of drug treatment and his philosophy could be summed up: Lock them up and throw away the key. (complete article here).

And also can't forget The Emperor Wears No Clothes that will pretty much spell out for you how marijuana needed to be stamped out so that hemp could be eradicated after DuPont had spent a helluva lot of money developing massive deforestation machineries that they needed to sell, and that pesky (and a lot easier to harvest and process) hemp that you could just about do by hand was cutting in to their big machine sales. Bottom line is that they wanted to sell BIG-ass machines to hack trees to bits, not tiny, light hand-held machines for harvesting hemp hurds. Also, they had all the right friends in all the right high places to make this propaganda stick.

I call it potaganda.. remember all those Reefer Madness-style campains? Posters of girls being lured into all kinds of depravity (usually by reefer-addict black men) that got all the "bow tie daddies" completely flipping their closed minds. Gotta stamp that shit out or my daughter will end up slave to a black man. Kinda makes ya shake yer head a little donut?

Here are but a few examples:

Dude, one time my friends and I got high and watched Reefer Madness. It was by FAR the funniest thing I have ever seen. It was back in my early smoking days too, when we would get the giggles.

Propaganda at its' best

Phydeux, yor sig is waaaaaay too large!

My stand on drugs, any drugs is:

You don't freaking need them! All you need is within your mind. Call me closed minded if you will, but I was around in the 60's and 70's. I had quite a few friends ruin their lives.

Concentrate on the mental and the spiritual, those are the true paths to enlightenment. You do not need chemical help.

Originally Posted by Seeker

Phydeux, yor sig is waaaaaay too large!

My stand on drugs, any drugs is:

You don't freaking need them! All you need is within your mind. Call me closed minded if you will, but I was around in the 60's and 70's. I had quite a few friends ruin their lives.

Concentrate on the mental and the spiritual, those are the true paths to enlightenment. You do not need chemical help.

I know what you mean, and I have come to realize it in the last year or so. I'm really not big on the spiritual and "enlightenment" thing, though.

Drug use is okay though. Not for dependence, of course, but parties and camping trips and rafting trips and such are so much more fun with the right drugs. My current stance is, if i can have substancial fun without drugs, then i dont use them.

There is a reason why illegal drugs are referred to as "controlled substances" by the government. It is a system of control. If you are too worried about how you're going to score without getting caught, then you won't be worried about bigger issues. Marijuana is the #4 agricultural crop in America raking in over $10 billion a year. A lot of money is made off of this drug and it wouldn't be so if it was legal. By keeping it illegal, it changes the balance of supply and demand, only allowing those who are rich enough to cover up massive growing to prosper. The government in turn has their hand in the proverbial honey jar of the big drug producers and make way more money off of it than they ever could through legal taxation.

I think "war on drugs", and in fact, war on ANY abstract concept, is a very stupid concept that shows how "black and white" the government's view is. Neither side of the argument (the black or the white) makes sense.

I don't agree with the "medicinal marijuana" argument. It's a load of crap, and it's slowing down progress. The fight that must be fought is "it's my body, I can do whatever I want with it outside of school, get off my case."

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I know what you mean, and I have come to realize it in the last year or so. I'm really not big on the spiritual and "enlightenment" thing, though.

Drug use is okay though. Not for dependence, of course, but parties and camping trips and rafting trips and such are so much more fun with the right drugs. My current stance is, if i can have substancial fun without drugs, then i dont use them.

I agree with you fully. You don't NEED drugs to have a good time, but on certain occasions it can enhance your experience.

I have never tried shrooms, only marijuana. And yeah it can ruin people's lives. I have a friend who started smoking regularily and he lost friends and relationships with family. But it's his choice. I would never choose a drug over a relationship, but that is a choice others arent so keen on making.

Originally Posted by Seeker

Phydeux, yor sig is waaaaaay too large!

You're kidding, right? I mean you don't think the 3 images I pasted are my sig do you? If not then are you serious? What, 5 lines of text, no images is "too big" under the short line? I have to assume you know what you're talking about, I mean after all you're an admin, right? Please clarify what you mean by "my sig", gotta be a joke methinks.

I just want to throw out there that alcohol WAS illegal for a while, until the law was vetoed.

Originally Posted by Phydeaux_3

You're kidding, right? I mean you don't think the 3 images I pasted are my sig do you? .

Sorry, I was scrolling quickly and thought those images were part of your sig.

The "War on drugs" is a great example of how retarded people can get when they have time to get all angry about things, but they don't have the brain to research it.

Tobacco should be banned if any drug ever should be banned. People should be educated about every drug they want to ban. And especially, drug prohibition should be based on good facts, not on random factors.

There is no, not a single good reason why alcohol should be legal but marijuana illegal. It is Not based on research, on how many people get killed, on addiction-rates, on over-dose-death-rates. It is just based on 'Oh, that is normal, because everyone does it'.

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Legalize EVERYTHING. Just restrict it properly. There should be the Freedom to put what ever you want to in your body, above everything. However, you can't just skydive without training, you shouldn't do psychedelics without training and counselling. If everyone follows some proper guidelines like people that skydive do, hardly anyone would still die from drugs.

Originally Posted by Neruo

The "War on drugs" is a great example of how retarded people can get when they have time to get all angry about things, but they don't have the brain to research it.

Tobacco should be banned if any drug ever should be banned. People should be educated about every drug they want to ban. And especially, drug prohibition should be based on good facts, not on random factors.

There is no, not a single good reason why alcohol should be legal but marijuana illegal. It is Not based on research, on how many people get killed, on addiction-rates, on over-dose-death-rates. It is just based on 'Oh, that is normal, because everyone does it'.

-

Legalize EVERYTHING. Just restrict it properly. There should be the Freedom to put what ever you want to in your body, above everything. However, you can't just skydive without training, you shouldn't do psychedelics without training and counselling. If everyone follows some proper guidelines like people that skydive do, hardly anyone would still die from drugs.

Why should tobacco be illegal? I love cigarettes. I quit recentely, and I miss them like hell. Next, cholesterol will be illegal. I mean, it kills, right?

I think we all agree that alcohol is much worse than MJ. I think 1 reason MJ is illegal is because of DUI. There is no real way to measure on the spot how much weed is in your system, and yes, enough pot can affect your driving. Sobriety tests are easily passable, which to me seems like you could drive, but whatever. I was always OK with it, though.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Why should tobacco be illegal? I love cigarettes. I quit recentely, and I miss them like hell. Next, cholesterol will be illegal. I mean, it kills, right?

No no, I said if Any drug should be illegal. Since it is, after all, it is one of the most addictive kind of drugs. And, it can be used so extensively without overdosing, that eventually the lungs get all black and full of happy lil' Tumors.

Wiat..

ironically, I am stoned right now

What I was saying: You are making it sound like I am a "ban everything" person. I am certainly not one. I was just pointing out how stupid the drug-war is, because the most legal and most accepted drug is Tobacco, yet it kills the most, and is more addictive than by far most kinds of illegal drugs.

Thus, if you would be nazi enough to ban any drug, they should first ban tobacco.

I think we all agree that alcohol is much worse than MJ. I think 1 reason MJ is illegal is because of DUI. There is no real way to measure on the spot how much weed is in your system, and yes, enough pot can affect your driving. Sobriety tests are easily passable, which to me seems like you could drive, but whatever. I was always OK with it, though.

Marijuana would be hard to make taxes of if everyone would home grown. Also, the paper-industry really benefited from the banning of cannabis.

So silly that honestly the best plant ever to make clothes or ropes from also makes you high. And gets banned because of it :/

Originally Posted by Neruo

No no, I said if Any drug should be illegal. Since it is, after all, it is one of the most addictive kind of drugs. And, it can be used so extensively without overdosing, that eventually the lungs get all black and full of happy lil' Tumors.

Wiat..

ironically, I am stoned right now

What I was saying: You are making it sound like I am a "ban everything" person. I am certainly not one. I was just pointing out how stupid the drug-war is, because the most legal and most accepted drug is Tobacco, yet it kills the most, and is more addictive than by far most kinds of illegal drugs.

Thus, if you would be nazi enough to ban any drug, they should first ban tobacco.



Marijuana would be hard to make taxes of if everyone would home grown. Also, the paper-industry really benefited from the banning of cannabis.

So silly that honestly the best plant ever to make clothes or ropes from also makes you high. And gets banned because of it :/

Oh yea, i know about your beliefs on this stuff, and i know what you mean. Cigarettes do kill, and they really dont do anything for you.

Hmmm, interesting theory that weed is illegal here because it is too good. If there were Marijuana corporations, they would be the biggest in the world.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Marijuana would be hard to make taxes of if everyone would home grown. Also, the paper-industry really benefited from the banning of cannabis.

So silly that honestly the best plant ever to make clothes or ropes from also makes you high. And gets banned because of it :/

I don't think america would home-grow thier weed if it were legal. maybe in the first few years because they are used to it, but comon, america? Not taking a convenient way? never. haha, people will be too lazy to do that when they could just buy it at the next seven eleven. that will be a day.

really? weed makes good clothes? I never knew that.

Originally Posted by Dewitback

I don't think america would home-grow thier weed if it were legal. maybe in the first few years because they are used to it, but comon, america? Not taking a convenient way? never. haha, people will be too lazy to do that when they could just buy it at the next seven eleven. that will be a day.

Hmm.. good point. It would depend on the prizes I guess. If the government want to tax it alot, then a lot of people would home-grow.

really? weed makes good clothes? I never knew that.

Oh yeah. Hemp has been used for ages. It is one of the oldest cultivated plants. It has got quite a history. However, of that kind of hemp you would have to smoke like way more then weed today to get high.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Hmm.. good point. It would depend on the prizes I guess. If the government want to tax it alot, then a lot of people would home-grow.

Oh yeah. Hemp has been used for ages. It is one of the oldest cultivated plants. It has got quite a history. However, of that kind of hemp you would have to smoke like way more then weed today to get high.

I heard you would have to smoke a joint the size of a telephone pole of hemp to get the same effect. Could you imagine rolling that thing? Could you imagine buying that? You'd need a freight train for a dime baggy

Originally Posted by Dewitback

I don't think america would home-grow thier weed if it were legal. maybe in the first few years because they are used to it, but comon, america? Not taking a convenient way? never. haha, people will be too lazy to do that when they could just buy it at the next seven eleven. that will be a day.

really? weed makes good clothes? I never knew that.

Yeah, how many Americans grow their own tobacco? It's much easier to drive to the store and spend $3 on a pack of 20 or whatever perfectly rolled joints of tobacco. Also, the professionals are much better growers than everybody else. I would much rather buy a professionally rolled pack of Marlboro Greens than try growing my own. (if I were into that sort of thing )

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Yeah, how many Americans grow their own tobacco? It's much easier to drive to the store and spend $3 on a pack of 20 or whatever perfectly rolled joints of tobacco. Also, the professionals are much better growers than everybody else. I would much rather buy a professionally rolled pack of Marlboro Greens than try growing my own. (if I were into that sort of thing )

Have you ever tried to cultivate weed? Its a pain in the ASS. I tried once and when I finally got it to grow, the pot fell of the structure I had and it frecking broke. I was so seriously pissed off.

It would be straight. Head to the Chevron and choose from an array of weed choices. It would change life as we know it.

I suggest, to all of you, watching Hooked:Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way on the History Channel. You would be suprised how many drugs were outlawed out of racism.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Have you ever tried to cultivate weed? Its a pain in the ASS. I tried once and when I finally got it to grow, the pot fell of the structure I had and it frecking broke. I was so seriously pissed off.

I'll first state the disclaimer that we have both talked about the problems with getting hooked on pot and all of that, but yeah... I was in on growing some pot in my friend's back yard ten years ago. We had two plants going. But they were supposedly killed by squirrels. At that point, I didn't care. I just called the usual dealer and got what I was looking for. It's much easier to be a consumer than it is to be a farmer, and I don't think we were exactly the most qualified farmers in Mississippi. I'm glad I didn't do it again. You can get 20 years in Mississippi for growing more than an ounce.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I suggest, to all of you, watching Hooked:Illegal Drugs and How They Got That Way on the History Channel. You would be suprised how many drugs were outlawed out of racism.

I saw that. Marijuana was not a problem in the United States before it was banned. The government made it illegal because a lot of Mexicans liked to smoke it and the government was trying things to get the Mexicans to leave the country. And I don't think it was about an illegal immigration issue. The government just wanted the Mexicans to leave.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Have you ever tried to cultivate weed? Its a pain in the ASS. I tried once and when I finally got it to grow, the pot fell of the structure I had and it frecking broke. I was so seriously pissed off.

Try again. All you need is sunshine and water

Ok, here's my take on the topic: The main problem IMO with illegal drugs is that they are manufactured and distributed by criminals, and you can never know the quality of the product. It often contains other drugs, poisons or whatever, and this is the greatest danger from using illegal drugs. This is the main reason why I think that they should be legalized.

Originally Posted by dodobird

Try again. All you need is sunshine and water

Ok, here's my take on the topic: The main problem IMO with illegal drugs is that they are manufactured and distributed by criminals, and you can never know the quality of the product. It often contains other drugs, poisons or whatever, and this is the greatest danger from using illegal drugs. This is the main reason why I think that they should be legalized.

Yeah, that is a hugely important point too. Because almost all drugs are illegal in our rich countries, criminals make Millions off of it. Especially with cocaine and heroin that is a bitch, because often it goes straight to wars and weapons. (including in Afghanistan).

That, and I heard they sometimes put crushed light bulbs into cocaine. To make it shine (good cocaine shines too, or something). That's just messed up.

Less people would die of overdose and drug abuse if it was all legal, had regulated good quality and wasn't available for 13-year olds as it is now on the streets.

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Actually, if they legaize all drugs, what drugs would become less popular? I saw some documentaries, and it seemed like 'crystal meth' or 'cranck' or whatever they call it, is Greatly popular in America. That while in europe, I don't believe anyone does it. I think because you can make meth with stuff you can buy at wal-mart and shops like that. Kind of sad, because I also had the impression meth is one unhealthy and extreme addictive drug. I think that if better drugs were legal, it wouldn't be used.

And I think alcohol would be used somewhat less if drugs became legal. Quite a few people drink not for fun, but to get hammered. With legal drugs, they can get hammered in an other, (often safer) way.