from the definition i dont think its possible without some kind of influence, something like how the military breaks down people to rebuild their personalitys and discipline them. i think it is possible through something like that. |
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I've been troubled over this idea, and I know it's a common philosophical question, but I figured I'd get your opinions. Sorry if this has been posted in the past. For those of you who don't know, altruism is basically engaging in acts of selflessness, for no reward of any kind. The reason I feel that it perhaps does not exist is because does anyone REALLY do things because they care more about others than them self? |
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My music - www.soundcloud.com/jaredemmanuel
from the definition i dont think its possible without some kind of influence, something like how the military breaks down people to rebuild their personalitys and discipline them. i think it is possible through something like that. |
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Well, depends how anal you are about using the word 'selfless.' Some people, for example, give blood. Obviously, they are doing this because they think they are helping people, which they are. Sure, some of their motivation comes from feeling good about themselves... feeling good about being a good person. I would regard someone who does something for others with the side-motivation from their ego still as being "sefless." |
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Interesting take. It's hard to say. I guess I should say does "true" altruism exist. The word itself implies acting outside of the human ego, which I don't think is something humans can do. The man who donates 10 million dollars to charity, whether anonymous or not still feels good about himself when he does it. Whether that was his motive or not is likely unknown. |
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My music - www.soundcloud.com/jaredemmanuel
in the animal kingdom their main drive is to reproduce and their species to survive. among insects their main reproducer is a single unit, like a queen bee. they have to protect the queen and support it in order for their species to survive. |
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sorry i thought first and 3rd posters were same people but i guess it still aplies. |
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It's not a matter of being "selfish dick holes". It's not out of maliciousness that people are not selfless. It's a matter of natural instinct. It's a matter of ego. They are not bad people. I just believe that no seemingly selfless act is truly selfless. There is always a subconscious process of "I will get 'x' if i do 'y'." I do not believe that people do things truly with no thought of reward. Whatever the reward be, even something as small as just knowing they did something good, making them feel good about themselves. It's all ego-motivated. I'm not saying that's bad, I'm just saying it is so. |
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My music - www.soundcloud.com/jaredemmanuel
i think the question lies within the grasps of is ego controlled by subconcious or concious thought. a selfless act is not impossible and i think ive done one before. heres the story. but now by telling you this it is no longer selfless. because i never told anyone and never got anything out of it. the only thing i got was the satisfaction that i could help someone and not have to take their acknowledgment in order to help myself. that satisfaction was only apparent to me after it happened and i realised no one even noticed i did it. |
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I don't believe it exists with humans because hidden ulterior and self-driven motives come into play, but I would say it does exist for other species..Check this out |
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The Art of War <---> Videos
Remember: be open to anything, but question everything
"These paradoxical perceptions of our holonic higher mind are but finite fleeting constructs of the infinite ties that bind." -ME
It happens all the time. Many times people will give anonymous donations to charity through their lawyer or another third party. Many people dedicate their lives to low profile unrewarding jobs that are beneficial to the community simply because they want to help people even though they will probably never receive any kind of recognition. If you always look for the worst in people, you will find it and nothing else. If you go through your life looking for the good in people, you can find it too. |
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Last edited by Xaqaria; 09-07-2007 at 07:29 AM.
volunteers go into volunteering knowing they will get some gratification. atleast some of them do, others do it because they have to.(to stay sane is one reason) |
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Of course you can go all anal about how helping people makes you feel good and how that means that in reality you're just a selfish whore putting on a facade to reach selfish goals in life blablabla. |
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Last edited by Serkat; 09-07-2007 at 12:13 PM.
A person never ever ever makes a decision to do something that does not satisfy him in some way. Even a person who dies for somebody else gets satisfaction from knowing that he is doing something for the other person, so it comes down to self-satisfaction. Satisfaction is the motivator of all behavior. That applies to all animals. However, I think that any act that is done for only the satisfaction of helping somebody else as a result of compassion for the other person is altruistic. |
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Last edited by Universal Mind; 09-07-2007 at 11:33 AM.
How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
I believe it exists because, if a person is hardwired to believe that something is the "right thing to do" (having been instilled values such as empathy and unconditional love, throughout childhood, for example) then that is, likely, their superior motive. Just because they - subsequently - get the satisfaction of 'feeling they've done the right thing', after doing so, does not make the act, itself, selfish. |
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Last edited by Oneironaut Zero; 09-08-2007 at 12:43 AM.
Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
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My music - www.soundcloud.com/jaredemmanuel
The question is whether people are doing these good things because they want to feel good about them, or whether they feel good about them as a side effect. Selfless does not mean that you will definitely glean no personal positive gain, but rather that your intentions are not for personal positive gain. |
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Most of all, I'd think that getting a positive response from acting in a positively selfless way is important for the judgment of what is right and what isn't. |
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Last edited by Serkat; 09-07-2007 at 10:47 PM.
Doing good feels good. Thus, it's egoistic. |
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“What a peculiar privilege has this little agitation of the brain which we call 'thought'” -Hume
Exactly. 100% what I am saying. It is always for a "reason" and that "reason" always benifits the person commiting the act in some way or another, even if only on an emotional level. |
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My music - www.soundcloud.com/jaredemmanuel
This does not contradict altruism, though. |
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Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
It is a given that the only actions a person does that are relevant to the idea of selflessness are those that the person chooses to do. If a person chooses to do something, then he *wants* to do it. Therefore, he is fulfilling his own interest and satisfying his own desire. In conclusion, any person's actions will fulfill their own goals, regardless of any other person's interests. What is in question is whether there exists a person who chooses to help another person in order to help that person. This would be analogous to "I eat food to eat food" or "I recycle in order to recycle" or "I help people for no reason" |
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Very good analogy, Oneironaut. You've always got good arguments. However, there is a flaw. Let's look at your options: |
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My music - www.soundcloud.com/jaredemmanuel
This may very well be true... |
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Last edited by Oneironaut Zero; 09-08-2007 at 05:10 AM.
Dream Journal: Dreamwalker Chronicles Latest Entry: 01/02/2016 - "Hallway to Haven" (Lucid)(Or see the very best of my journal entries @ dreamwalkerchronicles.blogspot)
Very good points indeed. |
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My music - www.soundcloud.com/jaredemmanuel
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