Why The Human Race Will Commit Mass Suicide in the Far Future :)

[Carôusoul]

Mass suicide. Oh, come on! What on Earth would we do that for? Well: because somewhere in the distant future, we would reach the conclusion that it’s the best thing to do. The only thing that makes sense. We would decide to kill ourselves – and do it. We wouldn’t even leave a suicide note. After all, who will be there to read it? Of course, it won’t happen tomorrow. First, a lot of dramatic changes will take place. Right now, we’re not too keen on dying. In fact, we hate it! Luckily, that will change over time. Slowly, we will defy death. We will beat disease after disease, and live longer and longer. We will fool the Grim Reaper with anti-ageing chemicals and fantastic, new cures. And in the end, we will beat Mr. Death. We will need technology to do it. In the long run, we will replace our entire bodies by technology. Already, we replace our teeth and the occasional limb that has gone missing with artificial stuff. In the near future, science expects to invent replacements for our organs. A little later, and we will be able to replace our brain by computer technology. Really! Already, some futures researchers expect that by the year 2050, we will be able to upload our mind into a computer! We will become machines – and be immortal. Trust us: it’s gonna be fun. When our minds have become pieces of software, we will be able to copy ourselves! We will be able to upload ourselves into… well, whatever we like. We will go out in space, in the shape of a conscious space ship. Or in the form of a purple cloud of thinking smoke particles. No, seriously! Respected scientists like Freeman Dyson and Carl Sagan already wrote about it in the 1970s. And we will interact with each other, big time. With our biological bodies gone, we will no longer need MSN, Hyves or Myspace to get in touch with each other. Rather, our minds will start to… well, blend, actually. We will become one consciousness. Some researchers have dubbed this The Singularity, as we detail elsewhere on this site. Ok, that sounds very vague – but hey, it’s no reason to kill ourselves! Well: there is this one crucial detail. Once we’re immortal, we’ll be booooooored! To us simple, mortal humans this may be a bit hard to grasp. But once we’ve reached Perfection and Singularity and Oneness and all that blah blah, we will have no goal in life. Yes, we will go out and discover the Universe. But after a while, we will have seen it all. With our mortal bodies gone, we will have all the time of the Universe. We will know every corner of the Universe and say: so what? So there you have it. You’ve become a God-like purple space cloud, but only to find that it is soooooo depressing. And in fact, it’s even worse than that. Once we will become machines, our processing speed will increase hugely. Simply put, we will think bloody fast. Within a split second, we will realise that our existence, literally, has become useless. A split second later, we will realise it’s best if we didn’t exist. To a Purple God Cloud it will be as [vanzelfsprekend] as tossing away a scrap of [volgeschrveen] paper. As logical as getting off a train that has reached its final destination. And the final destination is what we will have reached: the endpoint of evolution. Even harder to comprehend, the God Cloud won’t have any special feelings about it. When we think of suicide, we immediately think of terrible things like high buildings, speeding trains and shotguns. But to a Purple Cloud, it’s a different matter. Conscious clouds don’t feel pain have no reason to feel fear, least of all of death. If you’re immortal, dying might seem like a fun thing to do. Just like to us it is a challenge not to die. So, there we go. After a long period of contemplation – say, a whole millisecond – we will realise we have become useless. Right there on the spot, we will kill ourselves. And hey, you’re doing it again! You picture a weeping purple cloud throwing itself in front of a speeding train. But it won’t be like that. Rather, we will terminate ourselves in a way yet beyond our imagination. We will step out of the Universe, fold ourselves up, switch ourselves off – something like that. In a split second after we’ve reached immortality and Oneness and all that, we will be gone. Click. Exit. So – is that it? Is suicide the only inevitable outcome of evolution? Well, actually: there is another way out. But it is so strange and so disturbing, that it will blow your mind. Therefore we really urge you: if you’re mentally unstable or have a psychiatric history, please don’t read any further. It’s at your own risk. For what else is there to do if you’re a Super Human that is Super Bored? What do you do when you’re bored? Indeed: you distract yourself. You play a video game, or watch TV. Exactly this is what a superhuman intelligence may do. But of course, it will do so in a superhuman way: it will create a new Universe, break down its intelligence, and seed it with the spores of its Presence. Basically, such a ‘game’ will be a Universe that is destined to bring forth life and intelligence. But wait a minute… Isn’t that exactly the kind of Universe we’re living in? As we outline elsewhere on this site, it is. Scientists have noticed for long that our Universe has unmistakable clues that it is artificial. Everything around us, everything you do or see or feel or experience, may be fake! We may be part of a kind of Sims Game, an illusion, set up by some kind of Superhuman intelligence long before the Universe began… Well, at least it would be a weird choice if we reach Superhumanity again. We’ll ask ourselves: “Ok, what’s it gonna be? Another game of Universe? Or should we go to bed now and kill ourselves?” Discuss.

[Bonsay]

Yeah. That's the funny theory from Exit Mundi (That's where I've seen it before anyway). Makes sense if you ask me. But would the pink cloud be smart enough to do all that?

[Carôusoul]

Yeah. That's the funny theory from Exit Mundi (That's where I've seen it before anyway). Makes sense if you ask me. But would the pink cloud be smart enough to do all that? I'd think it would be pretty smart, no? It's a kind of infinite conciousness like; with functions trillions of times more complex than anything we can imagine today.. Oh, hai there definition of god.

[Bonsay]

Commiting suicide might look like a reasonable decision for smoke, but I think doing nothing would be a better one. A purple computer cloud could have emotions and everything else, but by god I imagine just a simple consciousness. And a consciousness is nothing, does nothing, it just is, unless you have a subconscious to give it stuff to do. In the end the universe would stay the same.

[LucidFlanders]

Some stupid hacker will virus us and that's how we all die. A virus! Anyway i would never become one of these, i rather die and hope there is soemthing then live not knowing.

[ClouD]

...Mass suicide...Of course, it won’t happen tomorrow... You can die. I got me an umbrella.

[Howie]

I personally feel that it is an unlikely scenario. It is very difficult to get five people in one room to agree on anything. Even if a circumstance arose that would seem to point in all direction that death is inevitable and it is in a horrible manner, belief AND disbelief comes into play. I understand your scenario though. Like many science fiction movies, the machines feel we are unnecessary and obsolete. If we became that much machine, we would not be us.

[Howie]

You can die. I got me an umbrella. mr.faded_glory Last Activity: Today 07:19 AM

[ClouD]

mr.faded_glory Last Activity: Today 07:19 AM Biography: I am no longer serious, YAAAAYYY! Ugck.. I only just saw that. Suddenly the curious humour is dissolved. I'll have to do something. /me plans something to completely debunk mr.fadedglory...

[grasshoppa]

far out.

[ClouD]

I was reading something today. Brought up the idea, that eventually once people come to a certain age, they want to die. Ie. possibly bodily suicide. I thought maybe a loss in material purpose would be the cause. Then i got into thinking why there are so many teen suicides... next i got into rambling endlessly like willy wonka on some thread at DV which i happen to have barely remembered.

[juroara]

you make me so sad, your brain is so sad, your thoughts are so sad, and you are just sad "Perfection and Singularity and Oneness and all that blah blah, we will have no goal in life" sweet heart, trascendence is a constant, it is not a 'goal'. it is a journey, not a destination. perfection, singularity and oneness are not 'sameness' and 'nothing never changes'. A state that stays the same falls apart and collapses in on itself. A state that collapses in on itself (or a closed system as science has described it), is neither perfect, neither 'one', neither in the singularity or enlightened. Its just that, a state that will collapse on itself, thus the mass suicide. But all those higher states of being, what ever it is you call it - enlightenment, heavenly, singularity, oneness - which ever do not mean 'stay the same' 'never changes' or 'boring'. They are just the oppisite. They are in perpetual motion, always changing, always growing and thus always making new experiences that did not exist before. Those higher states of being are not boring, just the oppisite, never growing, never changing and always experiencing the same condition gets old and boring. there is no boredom in pefection, no boredom in oneness or enlightenment, no boredom in heaven. because there is something new all the damn time. the standstill is the boredom. the standstill is when you stop trascending, stop growing, stop learning and when you stay the same. but staying the same, I repeat is not enlightenment or not higher states of being. Englightenment I repeat, is perpetual enlightenment. you have it completely oppisite if you understand 'oneness' 'singularity' and all that jazz then you would also understand they do not just talk about the human race, but everything that exists. Therefore the universe would also 'grow' and 'change'. And it already is, its expanding all the bloody time. There is no discovering everything there is to know about the universe, because tomorow there is something new. There is no knowing everyone, because tomorow someone new is born/created. There is no knowing every race even because tomorow a new race is born, a new planet, a new culture. Hell, a new dimension with an entirely different set of laws. And when you have learned everything there is know about a bloody universe, not the small understanding we have today, then you have the power to create your own. Create your own bloody universe, your own lifeforms, your own physics. And do it again, and again. Its never ending. Not an end to itself.

[Carôusoul]

you make me so sad, your brain is so sad, your thoughts are so sad, and you are just sad Sorry, but why the random personal attack? You are one of the most self righteous, up-yourself sounding people I have ever come across. sweet heart, trascendence is a constant, it is not a 'goal'. it is a journey, not a destination. perfection, singularity and oneness are not 'sameness' and 'nothing never changes'. A state that stays the same falls apart and collapses in on itself. A state that collapses in on itself (or a closed system as science has described it), is neither perfect, neither 'one', neither in the singularity or enlightened. Its just that, a state that will collapse on itself, thus the mass suicide. Yes, mass suicide, like i said. But all those higher states of being, what ever it is you call it - enlightenment, heavenly, singularity, oneness - which ever do not mean 'stay the same' 'never changes' or 'boring'. They are just the oppisite. They are in perpetual motion, always changing, always growing and thus always making new experiences that did not exist before. Those higher states of being are not boring, just the oppisite, never growing, never changing and always experiencing the same condition gets old and boring. there is no boredom in pefection, no boredom in oneness or enlightenment, no boredom in heaven. because there is something new all the damn time. For starters in order to take a word of what you're saying seriously I have to believe in enlightenment, and the possibility of perfection, and even when I've done that who the hell ar eyou to lay down these rules of what "is" and "isn't" in such a fucking holier than thou way. Seriously, your just saying this is like this and that is like that and i won't say why any of this is cus am too good for that. By definition oneness and singularity [I'm not going to embarrass myself by using your terms of heaven and enlightenment] Is a condition of being, of singularity, please explain why this is growing? That is without using mystic riddle sor whatever; or the words "sad" "enlightened" and "heaven". GIVE ME DEDUCTIVE ARGUMENTS for what your proposing rather than the random fiction your spewing. the standstill is the boredom. the standstill is when you stop trascending, stop growing, stop learning and when you stay the same. but staying the same, I repeat is not enlightenment or not higher states of being. Englightenment I repeat, is perpetual enlightenment. you have it completely oppisite[YEAH, SP] Where is this standstill, sorry? When in our entire being do we stop growing and stop learning? NEVER. The only possibility is if we reached a state of singularity,[if that is even possible btw]. BY definition when we are imperfect as you define it, we are growing more than ever, constantly. if you understand 'oneness' 'singularity' and all that jazz then you would also understand they do not just talk about the human race, but everything that exists. Therefore the universe would also 'grow' and 'change'. And it already is, its expanding all the bloody time. There is no discovering everything there is to know about the universe, because tomorow there is something new. Who is 'they'? And according to modern science, the probability of the universe just carrying on expanding into infinity is increasingly small. And if it does, new matter won't be created [check out the laws of physics ]; things will just literally space out. There is no knowing everyone, because tomorow someone new is born/created. DID YOU EVEN READ THE ORIGINAL POST?! And when you have learned everything there is know about a bloody universe, not the small understanding we have today, then you have the power to create your own. Create your own bloody universe, your own lifeforms, your own physics. And do it again, and again. Quite right. Its never ending. Not an end to itself. Why is this? or does it just sound pretty.

[Siиdяed]

I want to say owned... OWNED.

[R.D.735]

Even today, most humans live mundane lives. Our primary source of joy is in our relationships, not in our knowledge of the physical world. Like the desire for food or water, it is enjoyable even when it is repetitive and dull. Our brains reward those behaviors, even if they lack novelty. I think it goes too far to assume that those who live in the future will perish from the lack of novelty. Perhaps, if we decided to remove that part of our brain's function that rewarded repetitive experiences, we may decide life is no longer worth living, but I can see no reason to do so. We may even find it appealing to amplify that part of our minds so that we can be happier. It's reasonable, though, that we will be drawn into fantasy as the new medium of our lives. When material scarcity disappears, the only scarce resources will be power and social status, and pursuit of those is compatible with a virtual universe as much as a real one. The primary predictive tool human society, however, is the inexorable transition to states that make people happier. What makes us happy in the future might be very different from what makes us happy today. Instead of having grand ambitions, we may find joy in something as mundane as calculating pi to greater and greater accuracy(some people are already like that). It's hard to predict what will make future humans happy because they will be able to choose what makes them happy, whereas we are restrained by our inability to modify our minds.

[♥Mark]

I'd think that a hyper-intelligent, God-like purple space cloud would be above boredom.

[grasshoppa]

I'd think that a hyper-intelligent, God-like purple space cloud would be above boredom. Indeed. I also believe we would come up with something much more creative than turning ourselves off. I mean, why not destroy ourselves in a massive explosion, sending purple debris across the universe which in turn rebuilds it self slowly over thousands of thousands of years. Then we turn into a purple cloud again.

[Absolute]

This is a very interesting debate. You see, I am somewhat on the same level with the pointlessness of the Oneness and Singularity, but I'm more worried on a spiritual/conscious level. That is, in my belief, our consciousnesses becoming One. Same instance with the physical means of evolving into a divine cloud that eventually becomes one with all consciousnesses. What is the point if we're all the same? But then again, juroara, you bring up some interesting sides of the continuous path that we will achieve in our lifetime. My fear has always been our eternal consciousnesses merging back with the Creator. In the end when every last mind does this, I kept asking: "What's the point? What happens here? Does it all pointlessly repeat itself, now?" I mean, we can't explain the beginning of consciousness before time and space even existed, so there must be an end to restart the beginning, right? Or are we forever no matter what, always being individual? I want to have my individuality and personality. It's what makes me unique. Oneness would remove that, atleast from what I've gathered.

[Swank]

I'll hold back on the philosophy and spiritual ridiculousness of the whole mass suicide thing. Even still, purples a gay colour, can i be a silver cloud? Man I could get 5 dvd screens on me, a rear wing and roll on 22s. My cloud would be pimpin.

[LucidFlanders]

I'll hold back on the philosophy and spiritual ridiculousness of the whole mass suicide thing. Even still, purples a gay colour, can i be a silver cloud? Man I could get 5 dvd screens on me, a rear wing and roll on 22s. My cloud would be pimpin. Don't forget the bling, even robotic clouds need bling.

[AnonymousTipster]

I've heard of this theory before, except that the unified God was a product of evolution, rather than 'consciousness upload'. I don't think that we truly know enough about what constitutes the brain, mind and consciousness to tell whether it would be possible to maintain consciousness when uploaded to a computer or through extreme evolution. I subscribe to the idea that our consciousness must remain continuous for us to be the same 'instance' of person. Take this classic problem: There is a facsimile teleporter, where you step in one end, and it scans in all the atoms in your body and sends them down a telephone/data line. After scanning, the atoms are broken apart and stored away for later use. At the other end the data is received, and using a completely separate pool of atomic 'ink' it reconstitutes your body, effectively teleporting you. At any one time, there is either 1 or 0 of you in existence. Many people think that you would be completely unchanged by this teleport. Let's take a slightly different example. Bring the two ends of the teleporter into the same room. You, PersonA, step into teleporter A, ready for teleport. Say that the teleporter malfunctions, and only scans you in, and doesn't break down your atoms. PersonA (you) are left standing in the teleporter as a copy of your data travels across the room. In front of your eyes, the other teleporter constructs a new copy of you, PersonB. What we have now is two identically constructed people, except that PersonA and PersonB now are seperate, completely whole human beings. They share the same memories, the same scars. The question now is how does consciousness react? Can there really be one consciousness between the two people? Isn't it just like having identical twins? Two people that look the same, but because they are seperate, each of them has their own free will. This would mean that PersonA and PersonB would be able to walk up to each other and have a conversation, probably about how weird this is. Now say that someone else comes in and shoots PersonA in the head, instantly killing him. PersonB doesn't die, because his consciousness is completely seperate. PersonA is dead, so his consciousness has been discontinued. How does this apply to the computer problem? I think that during the 'upload' process, your brain and possibly consciousness will be copied into the computer, and in a similar way you would be able to have a conversation with your digital self. In this case, the digitised version would effectively become a backup of our human selves, which would then be able to continue with it's own consciousness. The digital version of us shares only memories and possibly consciousness in common with the human it was uploaded from. Can this still be thought of as human? Surely, physical human beings would still live on as usual, and the new race of digital-human would be born, and would evolve digitally, seperate from the physical humans. The problem comes down to how you define a human. If you did exactly the same upload process to a monkey, surely the data stored would be similar to any human upload. Does this make monkeys human? No. So how would a digital monkey be different to a digital human? In closing, I think that if we were ever uploaded to a computer, the digital version would become a completely seperate race to the physical humans, and for at least some time living alongside them.

[Pastro]

It could always make a program to delete its memory when it comes upon that realization, then just keep looping for eternity. It wouldnt be as boring then I imagine.

[Original Poster]

I've alreadt determined existence is basically pointless, but I still feel no inclination to commit suicide. You could argue I simply still have some stuff left to do, but I don't. I just put myself in a state of mind where I see the world as I'm seeing it for the first time. Its called mindfulness, and its the next stage of evolution, not turning ourselves into robots.

[LucidFlanders]

It could always make a program to delete its memory when it comes upon that realization, then just keep looping for eternity. It wouldnt be as boring then I imagine. Lol, feel like a kid everyday. Wish i can forget some movies because they were so good, then keep watching and memory dumpage and watching etc. Or dump a movie all together and have a note somewhere saying "DON'T WATCH *insert movie name here* OR YOUR BRAIN WILL EXPLODE, LITERALLY".

[Swank]

It could always make a program to delete its memory when it comes upon that realization, then just keep looping for eternity. It wouldnt be as boring then I imagine. I dont see why not!