Any Sceptics here annoyed...

**LucidFlanders** · 02-10-2008 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by m-mischief

well whats your view of the purpose of life?

My view is there is no view, because there is no purpose, because we are probably a 1 in a trillion fluke. All life on Earth that is, obviously. We could die, nobody could care, why? there is no meaning, whatever this is it goes on, and that's all that will happen forever. We are born, then we die, hows there a purpose if we will come to an end? people have their own purpose but it's a self purpose, a means for not going insane, to do something. Like a hobby, to do something, to not go insane. There can be no purpose if we are a fluke. You don't say "couincidences" have a meaning to their existance, because they have no existance, they are just that...a couincidence. We, are like a couincidence...no purpose, no meaning, nothing, nada. Why? we are a fluke, it doesn't get any simpler then that.

If we had a purpose to life, we should know it rather then not know it. There are different meanigns for personal belief, but it's all different beliefs, not 1 belief as a whole. If we have meaning to life, we are being hid away from it's meaning, and left in wonder. Of course what happens when you die, well, that's a whole different story. Maybe no meaning in life, and none in death.

What about god? why does there have to be a god? what's gods purpose in our daily lives? we controll our own lives, our own destinys, our own lucks, etc. You can say there is a god because a chair was made by man, we created it therefore we have to be created by something but why? we are here, we have the ability to create because we evolved, we are the best on the planet because of that, and what we can do compared to other animals. We can create because we know how to, we figured out how, we learn new things, we are the creame of the crop so to speak. I wont deny the existance of god, but i wont be a strong believer, either. Lots of stories but they are just stories, i mean you wont believe me if i told u my hamburger flew outside the window going into the clouds on it's wings, now would you? god's just something we wanna believe in. Again, i wont deny him (or whatever it is...)being real or not, but i've never met whatever it is.

Also, to people who see strange things like OBE's or whatever, it feels real, right? it probably seems as real aswaking life too, you move when you wanna move, and it's no time warping like dreams, and probably 100x's more real then dreams, atleast the deep ones. I've never had a dream so real i thought it was real...i've had dreams that felt real because the feelings, but it's never like knowing real like in waking life. So i guess if it's this real you have to deny waking life to whatever those OBE's are, right? you can move around at will wherever you wanna go, do whatever you wanna do, see whatever you wanna see, and it's as real as waking life (unlike dreams...atleast mine). You might also have to deny waking life to real life dreams...i mean dreams so real you can know where to walk to like real life. Sure, it's all in your head and when you wake uop 99% of the time u know where you are, and know it was a dream, but maybe this is a dream too? all in your head, well most of the stuff is, right? and everyone percieves things differently, right? what's the difference then? dreams you can become aware (LD), waking life you are ALREADY aware, OBE's, you are also aware. Maybe they are all connected somehow? and waking life really isn't reality, nothing is??? it's all fake imagry or something.

**m-mischief** · 02-10-2008 01:22 PM

I deffinatley agree with you on the meaning of life. There is none and were all here randomly.

**m-mischief** · 02-10-2008 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by SolSkye

niverse through entropy prefers complexity, which I believe says something.

It would seem more plausible that the universe was intended as opposed to just some constant cosmic rolling of the dice. If you disagree, I just hope you realize that your conclusion is equally unfounded in reality and logic as someone who chooses to see intent.

Not really. The idea that life on earth was intended has a lot of holes in it. Because then you would have to explain who intended us to be here, and why the thing (lets call it god) exists in the first place. Was he the result of random chance? And you can't say that god was just there because that doesn't explain anything.

If you say that there is a creator you haven't explained anything, because then you have to explain where the creator came from.

**Placebo** · 02-10-2008 07:44 PM

I have a bit of a hypothesis to throw out there:

God is just a dude (of perhaps many) who created a virtual world (earth+surrounds) with an evolutionary process designed to produce us (or perhaps some other creature is more important

).
He has a purpose for us. But as individuals, we aren't of much importance. It's the overall genetics/species development that matters. ie. the best.

His criteria? No idea. But assuming the Bible truly is his guide for us (big assumption), then the main point is for us to get along nicely, and be an intelligent species.

Evidence? Not much. But it fits with evolution, and involves god too. Interesting mix, no?

**LucidFlanders** · 02-10-2008 07:58 PM

So he's a mad god who likes you suffering pain forever if you don't follow him, because the many religions. Since you talked bible.

Free will thrown out the door, and being forced "or else"*shakes fist*

**LucidFlanders** · 02-10-2008 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by m-mischief

If you say that there is a creator you haven't explained anything, because then you have to explain where the creator came from.

We came from stuff that came from nothing, so maybe he came from nothing too?

**really** · 02-10-2008 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Mark75

It isn't a "blanket statement". I think there is no god, so obviously I think anyone who thinks there is no god is correct on the issue of god. If I didn't think it was true that there was no god, I wouldn't believe that way. There is no blanket statement or generalization occurring here.

Yes, there is: "everyone who is not an atheist is wrong about religion", your explanation doesn't support this either.

Originally Posted by Mark75

The people I speak of are the ones that offer no defense in the face of criticism except things like "leave me to my beliefs and I'll leave you to yours" or "don't force your beliefs on me" and of course, the ever popular "respect my beliefs". I don't respect beliefs founded on nonsense, so don't ask me to.

People can say this even if they have no fear of the offense. They can say it for whatever reason, actually. Again, that's another generalization. If you truly respect someones beliefs, and if they intend no harm, you'd need not be concerned about their foundations.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

All life ever is, is what you make of it. That's it.

Definitely. Then if you make your life beautiful, you'd like to share it with others who are lost in doubt; that is, to be a peace maker.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

It would seem more plausible that the universe was intended as opposed to just some constant cosmic rolling of the dice. If you disagree, I just hope you realize that your conclusion is equally unfounded in reality and logic as someone who chooses to see intent.

Are you saying that having "no purpose" is equally unfounded as having "a purpose", in this context? This seems to be taken from a non-dualistic viewpoint.

Ok so this topic is about skeptics. So I shouldn't be here, really.

I pity you who turn down God, entirely miss hiss purpose and grand truth. This is not a religious forum, but it doesn't have to be. God is not "some dude", he is a metaphor. He is not a person; Jesus! He is a spirit; does not think or operate like a human. Open your eyes, find the beauty in everything in which you find; move away from the shallows and doubts, you shall all be a divine thinker if you trust so.

**LucidFlanders** · 02-10-2008 11:18 PM

Maybe it's just your inner self, and not some "everything, everywhere, all the time" kind of thing?

**really** · 02-10-2008 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Maybe it's just your inner self, and not some "everything, everywhere, all the time" kind of thing?

They are one and the same; we are one with God, and God is within us all. Give it however many names, confuse yourself if you're afraid, but the divine concept will never change and never has.

**♥Mark** · 02-11-2008 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by really

Yes, there is: "everyone who is not an atheist is wrong about religion", your explanation doesn't support this either.

I think there is no god, so obviously I think anyone who thinks there is no god is correct on the issue of god. Conversely, this means I think that anyone who does believe in god is wrong about god. This is not a generalization. This is a specific instance of me disagreeing with people on a specific item. It is not a sweeping categorization that pigeonholes a group of people into a stereotype. Atheists by definition do not believe in god. I have said that I believe there is no god, so I obviously believe that anyone who believes there is is wrong about the existence of god, in the same way any sane and functional person believes that drinking bleach is potentially lethal. You aren't "generalizing" by saying everyone who thinks drinking bleach is beneficial is wrong about the effects of drinking bleach.

Originally Posted by really

If you truly respect someones beliefs, and if they intend no harm, you'd need not be concerned about their foundations.

The problem is that I don't respect ridiculous beliefs and also sometimes they do cause harm, even if it isn't intentional.

**LucidFlanders** · 02-11-2008 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by really

They are one and the same; we are one with God, and God is within us all. Give it however many names, confuse yourself if you're afraid, but the divine concept will never change and never has.

I guess that can be your definition of god, i just call it me thinking.

Of course i wont think "i want to burn things hee hee".

**really** · 02-11-2008 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by Mark75

I think there is no god, so obviously I think anyone who thinks there is no god is correct on the issue of god. Conversely, this means I think that anyone who does believe in god is wrong about god. This is not a generalization. This is a specific instance of me disagreeing with people on a specific item. It is not a sweeping categorization that pigeonholes a group of people into a stereotype. Atheists by definition do not believe in god. I have said that I believe there is no god, so I obviously believe that anyone who believes there is is wrong about the existence of god, in the same way any sane and functional person believes that drinking bleach is potentially lethal. You aren't "generalizing" by saying everyone who thinks drinking bleach is beneficial is wrong about the effects of drinking bleach.

That's generalizing; I'd like to know what you'd call it. You're way of thinking is here not a Law; as you seem to act; if you think it is you must be very arrogant.

Originally Posted by Mark75

The problem is that I don't respect ridiculous beliefs and also sometimes they do cause harm, even if it isn't intentional.

If respecting ridiculous beliefs, or better said, unfamiliar beliefs, is a problem, find a way to change your thinking. And things which cause unintentional harm are known to be accidents.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

I guess that can be your definition of god, i just call it me thinking.

Of course i wont think "i want to burn things hee hee".

Thinking is not a definition of God, because thinking can be any kind and nature, as evil. However, God is what can be brought into our thoughts; as one recognizes their infinite potential, where thoughts therefore have infinite power. Right thinking makes him astoundingly visible.

**♥Mark** · 02-11-2008 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by really

That's generalizing; I'd like to know what you'd call it. You're way of thinking is not a Law; as you seem to act; if you think it is you must be very arrogant.

Originally Posted by really

If respecting ridiculous beliefs, or better said, unfamiliar beliefs

I guess it's easier to argue against if you just go ahead and change what I said.

**really** · 02-11-2008 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by Mark75

What's wrong? Can't handle it?

Originally Posted by Mark75

I guess it's easier to argue against if you just go ahead and change what I said.

Yeah it is, but that's not what I was doing, because either way, my point remains. Know the value of knowledge.

**LucidFlanders** · 02-11-2008 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Mark75

It's easier to argue if you change what I said.

Damn right it's easier.

**♥Mark** · 02-11-2008 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by really

Can't handle it?

No. At this point I'm wondering why either of us even have an internet connection.

**LucidFlanders** · 02-11-2008 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mark75

No. I'm wondering why we have a smurf

Keep on topic man, WTF keep on topic.

**Placebo** · 02-11-2008 07:35 AM

Nobody likes my hypothesis

Oh well...

**really** · 02-11-2008 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Mark75

No. At this point I'm wondering why either of us even have an internet connection.

Don't waste your time, it may be a useless thing to ponder upon.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Originally Posted by Mark75

No. At this point I'm wondering why we have a smurf.

Keep on topic man, WTF keep on topic.

LMAO, I know what you mean, that's hilarious.

Originally Posted by Placebo

Nobody likes my hypothesis

Oh well...

I think it's reasonable, but calling God a dude and sounding quite doubtful about the Bible doesn't make you seem so sure. Interesting though, how there is a connection with everything you said, though you might not have found it. Skeptics cannot do this, but I'm not calling you one. I'm with you on the teamwork; spread the Good News. Nice hypothesis.

**RedfishBluefish** · 02-11-2008 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by really

That's generalizing; I'd like to know what you'd call it. You're way of thinking is here not a Law; as you seem to act; if you think it is you must be very arrogant.

Do you think all atheists are wrong about the existence of god?
Well done, that's generalizing.

EDIT: wrote "good" for "god", ha!

**Placebo** · 02-11-2008 11:16 AM

Thanks Really
The reason I sound unsure is because I'm in a situation where I'm officially a christian, but unsure of my beliefs. The religion I belong to isn't very forgiving on different ideas, and I would hurt my family by leaving them.

i.e. I'm a bit schizophrenic about religion

Because I have a skeptical side, and I appreciate skepticism to a degree, this is a painful situation to be in

**really** · 02-11-2008 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

Do you think all atheists are wrong about the existence of good?
Well done, that's generalizing.

Yeah it is. To answer your question: No that's not what I think.

Originally Posted by Placebo

Thanks Really
The reason I sound unsure is because I'm in a situation where I'm officially a christian, but unsure of my beliefs. The religion I belong to isn't very forgiving on different ideas, and I would hurt my family by leaving them.

i.e. I'm a bit schizophrenic about religion

Because I have a skeptical side, and I appreciate skepticism to a degree, this is a painful situation to be in

So you're skeptical in a religious family? Do you ask your family questions or share doubts?

**RedfishBluefish** · 02-11-2008 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by really

Yeah it is. To answer your question: No that's not what I think.

So you think there's a possibility they could be right (ie. god doesn't exist)?

**really** · 02-11-2008 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

So you think there's a possibility they could be right (ie. god doesn't exist)?

Good question; but that wasn't my point; to me I am not going to categorize everything to find a conclusion like that. Right or wrong isn't a matter, it's whether I am saying that everybody thinks the same or not. The issue becomes a problem with discrimination, racism, sexism, generalizing etc. If I did that, without knowing how, why or who conditions and experiences happen to; have not the slightest sympathy; create a very false view; as misjudgment.

So, judge not.

Outside all of that, so far God is not proven wrong to me. All I did was look far and bravely. There is still room for any possibility, but I think I've found something flawless.

**Placebo** · 02-11-2008 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by really

Do you ask your family questions or share doubts?

I share questions and doubts with my wife, but not all of them.
It upsets her, and when it gets back to my mother (which it did once), my mother is even more upset about it.

They concentrate on the fact that I seem to be falling away from the faith, rather than the questions themselves.
My wife handles it somewhat, but I still have to watch myself

Awkward situation as I don't want to cause the distress that would result.
They really do take it personally.

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