Thread: Living in the Now

Originally Posted by Schmaven

If one truly lives in the moment, does one still have thoughts, or is it a state of thoughtless awareness? From what I understand, living in the moment is to clear your mind of the distractions of thoughts and just experience everything around you with all your senses. But without thoughts, how would you plan things? Or I could be wrong and living in the moment also involves thoughts. Maybe you consciously direct your thoughts while living in the moment. I'm just thinking out loud, but what's your opinion?

There is nothing but the moment. So everyone, whether the believe it or not can only live in the moment. The Past is gone forever and the future does not exist. Time is an illusion, and life is a joke.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

There is nothing but the moment. So everyone, whether the believe it or not can only live in the moment. The Past is gone forever and the future does not exist. Time is an illusion, and life is a joke.

Technically, you can only live in the moment, but psychologically, you can zone out, dwell on the past or future, just be lost in your thoughts, or live in the moment. I would call living in the moment, fully experiencing everything with all your senses. You can't really do that when you're zoned out.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

Technically, you can only live in the moment, but psychologically, you can zone out, dwell on the past or future, just be lost in your thoughts, or live in the moment. I would call living in the moment, fully experiencing everything with all your senses. You can't really do that when you're zoned out.

Your objections hinge on the proposition that your psychology, your thoughts, and your preoccupation are somehow separate from the present moment: a nonsense proposition. Yes, we're stating the obvious when we say that you cannot help but live in the moment.

Let me state it again: you cannot help but live in the present moment.

What we are talking about is, how to realize this everlasting moment.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

Your objections hinge on the proposition that your psychology, your thoughts, and your preoccupation are somehow separate from the present moment: a nonsense proposition. Yes, we're stating the obvious when we say that you cannot help but live in the moment.

Let me state it again: you cannot help but live in the present moment.

Too obvious, but these nubs keep making the same thread.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

There is nothing but the moment. So everyone, whether the believe it or not can only live in the moment. The Past is gone forever and the future does not exist. Time is an illusion, and life is a joke.

Lol pessimist. Physically, the present, the past, and time cannot be grasped, nor do they exist (physically)... duh. They're concepts to describe aspects of our perception and are thus quite real.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

Your objections hinge on the proposition that your psychology, your thoughts, and your preoccupation are somehow separate from the present moment: a nonsense proposition. Yes, we're stating the obvious when we say that you cannot help but live in the moment.

Let me state it again: you cannot help but live in the present moment.

I know you cannot help but live in the moment. I didn't think it was such a nonsense proposition. I guess what I meant was that there are varying degrees of living in the moment depending on your current frame of mind.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Too obvious, but these nubs keep making the same thread.

Sorry, not all of us can just magically know everything without asking anyone like you.

Originally Posted by grasshoppa

Too obvious, but these nubs keep making the same thread.

Too obvious? I think most people do not live in the now. Of course, now is the only thing in existance, but in our minds, we only have memories of the past and the future, and most of the time, thats where our attention is, on the memories of the past and the future. Because we do not have memories of the now. Good luck dwelling on the memories of the now. Each time you pick out a memory of the now and try to dwell on it, it will already have become a memory of the past.

Of course, everyone lives in the present moment, because the present moment is the only thing that exists in reality. But in our minds, the past and the future also exist as memories or thoughts. Our attention is on memories of the past and the possible future. I rarely live in the now... it's like I'm sleeping all the time and doing everything automatic, and sometimes, I will "wake up" and realize I'm living and do something not automatic.. isn't that what meditation is all about? Being able to control your attention?

My attention is always wandering off, it's not easy to control it, try to think about ONE single thought for 5 minutes while doing something else. Very very hard. Most likely, you will "fall asleep" and only realize you have fallen asleep 10 minutes later, and you will think "lol I already forgot about thinking about that thought!". Experiment with this in real life. Try to think about "lucid dreaming" ALL day. Having this thought on your mind, ALL the time. You will find yourself "falling asleep". You are allowed to dwell on other thoughts, as long as you keep the thought of "lucid dreaming" in the back of your mind, but must likely, you will completely forget about the thought of "lucid dreaming" within 5 minutes.. and after 10 minutes you will "wake up" again, and realize that you had "fallen asleep" and that your attention wasn't on lucid dreaming anymore.

You can try this out right now. Think about lucid dreaming for 5 minutes straight or longer, while doing other stuff like reading the rest of my post. Most likely, after a few minutes, or a shorter period of time, maybe even before you reach the end of my post, depending on your skill of keeping attention, you will have completely forget about lucid dreaming! And you will only be reminded again like after 10 minutes... it's like theres a gap in your attention. It's like you keep dozing off back to sleep.

Let's say as long as you keep the thought of "lucid dreaming" inside your head (or the thought "I am dreaming" or anything you want really), you are "awake". And when you forget about the thought, you are "asleep".

Experiment with trying to keep "lucid dreaming" in the back of your head all the time, all day long. You will realize, that this is not easy, and you will be "asleep" most of the day, and only "awake" during short brief moments.

Living in the now is not easy at all. And my best guess would be meditation to train your attention, and lucid dreaming/visualisation to train your memory/imagination.

Anyway, interesting subject and maybe living in the now is the same thing as being lucid.

Really, all living is in the now. Where do you think your mind is wandering?

Yeah I agreed with that, that all living is in the now, because there is only now. But our attention is not. It's wandering on memories and thoughts of the past and the possible future all the time.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

Technically, you can only live in the moment, but psychologically, you can zone out, dwell on the past or future, just be lost in your thoughts, or live in the moment. I would call living in the moment, fully experiencing everything with all your senses. You can't really do that when you're zoned out.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Yeah I agreed with that, that all living is in the now, because there is only now. But our attention is not. It's wandering on memories and thoughts of the past and the possible future all the time.

I don't think thought and memory and perceptions of movement are necessarily outside of the "moment". While these processes all take time or reference time, our awareness of these processes and perceptions are not dependant on time. So while thought and planning occur over time, we can experience them in the moment.

When I consider living in the now personally, I think it comes down to focusing on the present physical reality, desiring to appreciate and see only what is there. Of course, that physical reality is not actual, objective reality, but the confused and heavily filtered reality of the mind. So, for me, it is simply the desire for reality, above all else wanting to experience the moment, that makes one "in the moment". I think what Taosaur is getting at (as I understand it) is that either way it is purely subjective and the idea of "living in the moment" and "not living in the moment" being separate is ignoring the fact that both are purely illusory psychological states, both physically located in the now. So I think by focusing on what is being actively desired and given importance in perception is what makes the true difference for the individual's perception.

By specifically desiring reality one comes into "the moment" by pushing oneself as close to objective reality as possible, and by distancing oneself from the illusory realities of personal fantasy, conceptualization, and imagination as much as possible. That desire brings with it, or is created by, or probably both, an increased appreciation of reality and what is perceived in that reality, if not the act of perception and thought themselves.

For instance, my typical perception is cluttered with anxieties, some conscious, much of it brooding under the surface, and desires that I would personally consider addictions more than anything. My reality is perpetually covered over by this psychological noise. Each anxiety and need is itself a program running in the background, each adds a layer of desires, importances, and fears. The anxieties themselves are generally composites of even more remote complexes. My anxiety over work spawns from a personal image complex, which equates individual value with productivity or "paying one's way"; from a financial complex, which equates wealth with a multitude of yet further needs and desires - status, security, health, etc; and from a time complex, which equates past and future time - conceptual time, mind you - with value that needs to be properly appreciated by myself through personal development, etc, again further complicated by other complexes.

My point is that all of these complexes are assigning values to objects and goals, effectively conceptualizing reality. In doing so they create an illusory reality, where these objectively non-existent values and systems exist. True, these complexes may be perfectly logical and follow from objective reality: wealth increases my ability to purchase healthy food, medical treatment, etc, and is needed within the physical market system in place. But they distract from how I would perceive reality and life by choice. I would not choose to view the world from such a perspective, but have been forced to by the nature of this world and my limited abilities within it.

The problem is that these anxieties and conceptualizations do not add much to the experience of reality. It is their goals that would add to the experience of reality, hence their existence, and it is in accepting the importance of those goals that the need to complicate one's perception is formed. The various end desires play against one another, and the result is an ever-changing balance of anxieties and conceptualized realities.

So, in comes the desire to appreciate reality, formed from the understanding of the inherent value of existence. I personally consider it to be the most universal and fundamental value.

Living in the moment to me is embracing this value system completely, and dismissing all others as unimportant. It seals off those many twisted corridors of thought and thought, forcing my focus and consciousness down the only remaining hall - the main hall, that straight hall that has at its end the dynamic and multifaced wall of sensation and the objective reality I believe to be before me.

For me, though, I find this interesting, but I also like to add a few other desires and hand-picked filters to my perception. This collection is what I would call my ideal self: the being that would exist if I were non-physical, or at least immortal, if not relatively omnipotent. I appreciate the moment, existence and reality, the act of perception and the ability to understand concepts, but I also appreciate some other desires I have been given.

I'll add that I think this self is something that should be actively sought. I have failed in creating it in the past, but in a moment of reflection I think this path should work: decide precisely what desires and emotions and values you want to experience, ideally, realizing that for each addition, all lose some relative (and therefore perceptually absolute) value. Then understand why you find the other desires important. Take what you are left with and reflect on each goal, and if it is really something to be sought. With what remains, find a way to separate it from this ideal self and decide when it would be appropriate to ignore these other desires and when it would be appropriate to entertain them. For instance, at work it is probably appropriate to entertain the desires of employment and wealth, and the alterations they make to behavior and perception, but outside of work it is not so necessary. Find your own balance, and make sure to find time to shake them all off. I suppose that would be called "meditation" time.

I'm just saying that the apparent contradiction when someone says, now, "I want to live in the now," is just what it appears to be: an inconsistency revealing incorrect assumptions.

It's as if you came upon an oval track where a man rides a horse round and round. He kicks and beats the horse, then winded, he sits aloof, looking away as if ignoring the animal. Curious, you draw closer, and as the horseman comes around you shout, "What are you doing?" He starts to shout back, but, pulling away, he holds up a finger and continues around the track, clutching and beating at the horse. As the next circuit brings him around, the horseman cups a hand at his mouth and yells, "I'm trying to catch the horse!"

Originally Posted by DNK

I'll add that I think this self is something that should be actively sought. I have failed in creating it in the past, but in a moment of reflection I think this path should work: decide precisely what desires and emotions and values you want to experience, ideally, realizing that for each addition, all lose some relative (and therefore perceptually absolute) value. Then understand why you find the other desires important. Take what you are left with and reflect on each goal, and if it is really something to be sought. With what remains, find a way to separate it from this ideal self and decide when it would be appropriate to ignore these other desires and when it would be appropriate to entertain them. For instance, at work it is probably appropriate to entertain the desires of employment and wealth, and the alterations they make to behavior and perception, but outside of work it is not so necessary. Find your own balance, and make sure to find time to shake them all off. I suppose that would be called "meditation" time.

That definitely sounds like it would work. I've never thought to try to understand my desires. I know what I'll be doing for a few hours now hahaha

Well, I thought more about it today. I think it's part of a larger process now. I'm not sure it's enough simply to pick out emotions/desires/etc and say you'll entertain them now but not then or whatever. I think a key part I missed in that write up was that you had to use these to form an identity, or use them to create a distinct approach to the world. It's hard to explain...

For instance, I've found a good shortcut that for whatever reasons I can't get to work is to imagine a role model or something like that which embodies that ideal self, and then to try to live up to that model, try to play that character. It works in theory, but I've yet to really solidify such a role model. I'm not sure what the hold up is, to be honest. Maybe I don't like what that would require of me or I'm just not ready for it yet. Maybe I should drop the maybe

Point being, it's not as easy as that. There are reasons we aren't our ideal selves, reasons we've accepted obviously, but that's not to say we can't reevaluate our reasoning.