Thread: The Solution to All of Lifes Problems

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

But you die when your brain dies. Your body changes form, but you only change from existing to not existing.

This is perhaps an assumption based off appearances - which are not subjective reality.

Originally Posted by really

This is perhaps an assumption based off appearances - which are not subjective reality.

Appearances? I don't really understand what you mean here - science and reason points towards death being the transition from existence of the individual consciousness, to non-existence of the individual consciousness.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Since when is the brain not part of the body? Are you saying that consciousness is non-physical in nature? What is it then? If it is not physical, why then must it cease due to a physical death?

I think you misunderstood by previous post. I'm not saying that there is more to consciousness than physical. I was saying that consciousness only exists in the physical world, and there is no more to it; BUT that the body is not a part of that. Your body is only connectedto your consciousness in that you control it - but without it, theoretically, your consciousness can be maintained without it being changed dramatically - except that you wouldn't have any inputs or outputs to the physical world.

Your consciousness is totally, utterly contained within the brain. That's it.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Appearances? I don't really understand what you mean here - science and reason points towards death being the transition from existence of the individual consciousness, to non-existence of the individual consciousness.

Appearances - I watch this and that, conclude that this causes that. Limitations.

Science and reason are limited to their own paradigm of causality. The subjective is not the objective. The brain is not the infinite.

Originally Posted by really

Science and reason are limited to their own paradigm of causality. The subjective is not the objective. The brain is not the infinite.

Yet you haven't given me a single bit of reason or evidence to suggest that death isn't the end of consciousness.

Has it been said yet that suicide is the only philosophical question?

I agree. The only thing worth pondering over in the entire world is whether or not to commit suicide.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Your consciousness is totally, utterly contained within the brain. That's it.

A) Prove it.

B) You never answered; since when is the brain not part of the body?

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Yet you haven't given me a single bit of reason or evidence to suggest that death isn't the end of consciousness.

And you haven't given a bit of evidence suggesting that it is.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

A) Prove it.

B) You never answered; since when is the brain not part of the body?



And you haven't given a bit of evidence suggesting that it is.

A) You mean besides the fact that we've never observed anything conscious that isn't inside of a neural network of the brain?

B) I do believe you are being a semantic whore again...generally when a person refers to the body they mean the head, neck, torso, arms, and legs.


The decay of the brain after death from those who have been dead for a specific amount of time resulting in brain damage?


We already know that consciousness is directly related to the brain...damage changes memories, emotions, intelligence, etc.

To anyone who isn't a hopeless romantic over what the universe has to offer it is obvious that the brain is that which constructs consciousness.

We have not observed actions from something without neurons allowing it respond

We have not observed reactions from something without neurons allowing it to sense

How do you observe consciousness?

An experiment might be to remove a brain from an already dying body (to be humane) and connect it to computer inputs where the external inputs used to be, and then see what happens. If able, the brain might still tell you it feel conscious.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

How do you observe consciousness?

If you were talking to me...


I was talking about observing a being who is conscious..."anything conscious."

Originally Posted by Sandform

If you were talking to me...


I was talking about observing a being who is conscious..."anything conscious."

But like I said you can observe something has a working brain but you can't observe consciousness. The fact that we are already apart of two conscious perspectives (The Self and the self) allows us to watch our own consciousness as it receives a flood of thoughts, sounds, sights and other sensations. But we are limited to just those two, unfortunately, our reality and the real reality. We can't observe consciousness in another creature, and it's not a question of "maybe it's just a machine" or something, we're all just machines, but we have awareness for absolutely no reason whatsoever that science can explain.

So what I'm saying is that scientists have not observed consciousness in anything with or without a brain because they have not scientifically observed it period.

Originally Posted by Sandform

A) You mean besides the fact that we've never observed anything conscious that isn't inside of a neural network of the brain?

B) I do believe you are being a semantic whore again...generally when a person refers to the body they mean the head, neck, torso, arms, and legs.


The decay of the brain after death from those who have been dead for a specific amount of time resulting in brain damage?


We already know that consciousness is directly related to the brain...damage changes memories, emotions, intelligence, etc.

To anyone who isn't a hopeless romantic over what the universe has to offer it is obvious that the brain is that which constructs consciousness.

Tell me then, how is it obvious? Are you saying someone with down syndrome, or post birth brain damage is less conscious than you are? How is consciousness measured? You might as well go as far to say that people who are simply stupid are less conscious. You can cut parts of the brain clean away and the person will still tell you they feel just as conscious as before. On the opposite side, destruction of the brain might end the appearance of consciousness (i.e. any visual response to stimuli, which is what you seem to be labeling consciousness) but you can destroy the heart and produce the same effect, along with all of the other vital organs.

The fact is, you don't know what consciousness even is. I know this, because your nobel prize isn't displayed in your signature. How exactly do you expect to be able to make such claims about where consciousness is and what happens to it when we die if you don't even know what it is?

The brain is part of the body, and it is not a matter of semantics to make that distinction. Even if one were to make the concession that consciousness probably resides in the nervous system, the nervous system stretches to each and every part of the body so this makes little difference. The brain is fundamentally no different than pain receptors in your pinky toe.

From the sounds of it, if you are right and consciousness is measured by intelligence, then you don't have nearly enough consciousness to talk about the subject with any credibility.

Originally Posted by Sandform

If you were talking to me...


I was talking about observing a being who is conscious..."anything conscious."

How does one observe consciousness? You didn't answer that question. All you managed to say was that when someone actually tells us they are conscious, we can assume that they are (even though this still isn't a very accurate observation).

I'll ask again in order to make the question plainly clear. What is consciousness and how do you propose to recognize it in things that are not capable of simply saying, "I am conscious." Also, how do you propose to differentiate between the truth and a lie when that statement is uttered?

You can only observe your own conscioussness. How do you know that anything else is conscious if it isn't you? It could just be an imitation of consciousness.

It is every bit as much an article of faith to believe that consciousness ends at death as it is to believe that it transcends death.