Thread: Does 0.9 repeated = 1?

Originally Posted by UM

The Heisenberg Principle should not even be famous. The idea that two particles in very different parts of the universe randomly become attracted to each other and move across light years to collide throws up a big question mark.

Sorry, but that isn't the Heisenberg principle. I think your misunderstanding the EPR paradox.

Originally Posted by UM

There are no uncaused events, so Hawking's dice point is ridiculous.

You mean Einstein.

Originally Posted by UM

The idea that matter is not infinitely divisible really raises one of my eyebrows.

Quantum Mechanics says that energy comes in packets of energy, it says nothing about mattter not being infinitely divisible.

Originally Posted by UM

Quantum physics so far strikes me as the left wing version of science, full of rationalizations and rebelliousness against the obvious for the pseudo-intellectual rush that comes with it. I don't quite buy into it, but I plan to study it a lot more. I am sure there is merit to some of it, but I am not sure what bits yet.

Quantum Mechanics is the most tested theory in science, it has tons of evidence and its predictions have been successfully confirmined to crazy degrees of accuracy.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Sorry, but that isn't the Heisenberg principle. I think your misunderstanding the EPR paradox.

I didn't say it was the Heisenberg principle. You misunderstood my long list of quantum theories I think are very questionable.

Originally Posted by wendylove

You mean Einstein.

No, I mean Hawking. Einstein said, "God does not play dice." Hawking said, "God does play dice."

Originally Posted by wendylove

Quantum Mechanics says that energy comes in packets of energy, it says nothing about mattter not being infinitely divisible.

It says that matter can be broken down into energy waves which are not composed of matter.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Quantum Mechanics is the most tested theory in science, it has tons of evidence and its predictions have been successfully confirmined to crazy degrees of accuracy.

Some of its predictions. But I will bet everything I own that the universe is 100% deterministic and that human minds are miniscule in the overall scheme of the universe. I would bet half of what I own that matter is infinitely divisible.

Human intuition could well be completely useless when it comes to whether the universe is deterministic or not, because our brains are built for understanding the macroscopic world, which is not inherently probabilistic.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Hey troll, you know I have addressed that about 10 times in this thread, unless you are not reading my posts. I addressed you specifically yesterday when I said I am trying to dissect your assertion and not counter it. Your response causes your argument to be circular. Look into it.

No, it doesn't.

They are the same number becuase they have the same value and are in the same place on a number line.

Again, no borders. The rectangle has been labelled twice. There is nothing "on the other side" of infinity. You don't have an argument at all.

My argument isn't circular, anyway. Several proofs have been produced. They are the same. There's nothing to dissect, again. Do you even know what you're talking about?

Two numbers are the same number-- equal-- when they are on the same place on the number line. i.e. .9... and 1. There's nothing more to it.

All you've done is ask why they are. Look at the proofs. I know you aren't countering it. That's why I'm explaining it

You're pretty rude, btw. If you don't want an answer, then don't ask for one.

The way the number is written suggests that there is something on the other side of infinity.

No it doesn't...?

Infinity can never be "reached" because it is a concept of an unreachable number. Therefore the only thing that can be behind it is itself.

Okay, you are definitely trolling. You are repeating Drew's argument that was already thoroughly covered.

Quote, please? I haven't read most of this thread. Just your posts.

The rest of your post is about countering the claim that the two numbers are not equal, and I have thoroughly and repeatedly explained that I am not taking issue with the claim that the numbers are equal except to point out the paradoxical nature of the fact while agreeing that it is a fact.

But it isn't paradoxical.

You still aren't getting it. The only way to explain this is by demonstrating that it isn't, which is the same as demonstrating that they are the same.

Again, 1 and .9... are the same number. There isn't anything paradoxical about this because they occupy the same place on the number line.

Think aobut it this way.

.9... is the decimal form of the value '1' and '1' is the fractional form.

Paradox disappears pretty fast, right?

Please do something with your life. Thanks.

And what's with all the ad homeneim attacks?

Grow up, man.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

They are the same number becuase they have the same value and are in the same place on a number line.

.9... is the decimal form of the value '1' and '1' is the fractional form.

Oh, what a very witty and clever way to dismiss my post. I wish I was as smart as you! :3

You still haven't explained this paradox, so obviously I can't explain much mor eto you...

All you've given me is that '.9... proves there is something beyond infinity' which is nonsensical.

You haven't explained how that is. .9... is a number. Infinity is never reached, and definitely not passed...

So, what the hell are you talking about?

I am sure you missed it when I addressed you specifically with this one of my many explanations of my point, troll.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Just in case you or somebody else STILL doesn't get the paradox, I will explain it another way. And I am not calling into question whether the two figures are equal, so don't waste your time by telling me they are just two ways of writing the same number. That fact is exactly what I am trying to explain, not counter. Understand?

Okay, imagine the number 0.999... written on a piece of paper that goes forever. With every next digit, the number represented up to that digit is a little closer to 1. So how far along the number is there a point when the digits up to that point equal 1? A trillion light years? Quadrillion to the octillionth power light years? It never happens, ever, obviously. Infinity has no end. So the number can never reach 1, ever. Right? So the stretched out number that never can possibly get to 1 gets to 1 because that is the number that the entire number is. It can't reach 1, but it reaches 1.

Okay...

That's not a paradox.

.9... doesn't reach one.

It just represents the same value. We've been over this... Numbers aren't physical objects. They only exist in theory. What is the exact problem with .9... and 1 representing the same number?

You haven't explained this.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

.9... doesn't reach one.

It just represents the same value.

That is the paradox. It never gets there, but it gets there. Get it?

Yes, but no.

Numbers are thoeretical concepts that represent OTHER theoretical concepts called values. That's why numerical operations have several different ways of writing the same answer number down.

That way you can have two 'numbers' that are different, but both still represent the same value.

Again, think of .9... as the decumal form of the Value '1' and the number 1 the fractional form.

1/1 = .9... = 1

.9... is just another way of writing 1, because they both stand for the same value.

There really isn't anything else you can add to this. As long as it holds in math, then it's true. There aren't any other ways of showing this that I can think of other than what Xei said: numbers aren't processes, they just exist.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Yes, but no.

= paradox

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but no, that isn't a paradox.

I like to not post inflated sentences like this, so I shorten them.

Anyway, care to address anything in my last post?

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but no, that isn't a paradox.

How is, "Yes, but no," not a paradox? It is the epitome of paradox, exactly what defines paradox.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Anyway, care to address anything in my last post?

You said a bunch of stuff to keep arguing that 0.999... and 1 are the same number. I agree with that, so there is nothing to debate there. That is the last time I am going to say it. If you make the point again, all you get in return are troll pictures.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

How is, "Yes, but no," not a paradox? It is the epitome of paradox, exactly what defines paradox.

When you have two clauses in a sentence, one answer followed by another refers to each clause in descending order.

Learn 2 english.

What I said was, I should have said "Yes, I understand what you are saying, but no, that isn't a paradox."

You said a bunch of stuff to keep arguing that 0.999... and 1 are the same number. I agree with that, so there is nothing to debate there. That is the last time I am going to say it. If you make the point again, all you get in return are troll pictures.

So then what is your point?

They are the same number, because they represent the same value, not because there is something 'beyond' infinity, or that infinity can be reached.

You seem to be missing a point.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

When you have two clauses in a sentence, one answer followed by another refers to each clause in descending order.

You should have been more vague. "Yes, but no," is the point I have been making this entire time. Yes, the two numbers are the same, but no, none of the 9's could ever possibly reach 1, so it is a paradox that the numbers are the same.

You know what? That is the last fucking time I am going to explain that. If you or anybody else really wants to understand it, meditate on it, practice koan rituals on it, and have lucid dreams on it until you finally get it. Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Learn 2 english.

Wow, the irony.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

So then what is your point?

That the walrus was Paul. Goo goo ga joob.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

They are the same number, because they represent the same value

So they represent the same value because they represent the same value, therefore it is not paradoxical that they represent the same value since they represent the same value. Awesome resolution.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You should have been more vague. "Yes, but no," is the point I have been making this entire time. Yes, the two numbers are the same, but no, none of the 9's could ever possibly reach 1, so it is a paradox that the numbers are the same.

You know what? That is the last fucking time I am going to explain that. If you or anybody else really wants to understand it, meditate on it, practice koan rituals on it, and have lucid dreams on it until you finally get it. Good luck with that.

Okay, so it's a paradox, because you don't understand it. Gotcha.

Originally Posted by A Roxxor

Okay, so it's a paradox, because you don't understand it. Gotcha.

No, it is a paradox because it is a paradox, and it is not a non-paradox since it is a paradox, which proves that it is a paradox.

'Reach 1' => Verb => Process

It's not a bloody process, how many times?

I tried to say that earlier... People keep insisting that it is like 9s just kept adding on in the next step like an assamtote. Apparently they can't understand that the number inherently has infinite zeros.

Originally Posted by Xei

'Reach 1' => Verb => Process

It's not a bloody process, how many times?

A person who is 5'll' does not reach the level of 6'. It is not about process. It is about state.

Originally Posted by spockman

I tried to say that earlier... People keep insisting that it is like 9s just kept adding on in the next step like an assamtote. Apparently they can't understand that the number inherently has infinite zeros.

From one 9 to another, there is an extra 9, every time.

What has infinite 0's?

It is amazing that you kids get beligerant about a topic like this. Grow the fuck up.

UM, you have, by far and I believe many people can agree, have been one of the largest instigators causing this thread to digress into name calling.

Originally Posted by Spockman

UM, you have, by far and I believe many people can agree, have been one of the largest instigators causing this thread to digress into name calling

Lets just all agree that UM doesn't get Maths.

Originally Posted by UM

What has infinite 0's?

Every natural number. For example, 1.00000000000000000000000..... has infinite 0's.

I have noticed that topics like the above always get nasty. I think its because there is always someone that can't understand why its true or that it's true.

Originally Posted by spockman

UM, you have, by far and I believe many people can agree, have been one of the largest instigators causing this thread to digress into name calling.

Instigator? That is just flat out false. I insulted back, but I did not initiate any of it. Stop lying.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Lets just all agree that UM doesn't get Maths.

Let's all agree that you are a dishonest moron who can't spell and who talks about math without knowing what on Earth you are talking about.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Every natural number. For example, 1.00000000000000000000000..... has infinite 0's.

I was responding to the point that 0.999... has infinite 0's. It has infinite 0's before the decimal, but not after it, which is what we were discussing. Do you understand math?

Originally Posted by wendylove

I have noticed that topics like the above always get nasty. I think its because there is always someone that can't understand why its true or that it's true.

It's because people like you put more energy into showing what assholes you are than you put into exploring deep issues, being fascinated with them, and having interesting conversations in a decent way. Your assholishness greatly exceeds your intellect, and that is a recipe for dysfunctional conversation.

Instigator? That is just flat out false. I insulted back, but I did not initiate any of it. Stop lying.

Let's all agree that you are a dishonest moron who can't spell and who talks about math without knowing what on Earth you are talking about... Your assholishness greatly exceeds your intellect, and that is a recipe for dysfunctional conversation.

Grow the fuck up.

Uh. ._.

I was responding to the point that 0.999... has infinite 0's. It has infinite 0's before the decimal, but not after it, which is what we were discussing. Do you understand math?

No you weren't. What are you talking about? spockman hadn't even thoroughly explained what he meant yet; I understood him to mean what wendy said.