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    1. #476
      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      I vote a mod or admin close this thread.

      All the possible reasons that non-mathematicians can come up with as to why .9~ equals or does not equal one have been fully explored. At this point, whatever a person now believes willl not be wavered, so there's no point to continue.

      It's only going to degrade further into insults as there is no subject matter left and that's the only place it can go. Actually, it's been going that way for quite a few pages.
      Paul is Dead




    2. #477
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
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      To be honest yes... it almost became interesting when we started discussion the reality of numbers but then UM dragged it back to repeating the same meaningless questions that have been answered many times over for a few pages now, with additional completely unnecessary insults aimed at pretty much everyone. :/

    3. #478
      Consciousness in the Void Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Nobody is forcing you to be in this thread that you are determined to turn into purely a nursery school insult contest. If you are unhappy with the fact that all you have to offer at this point are dishonest insults, other lies, and whinings about how the thread is still going, then just stay out of the thread. What an idea. Otherwise, just peacefully make intellectual points and experience the revelation that I will do the same back to you. Give it a try, if you think you are capable.

      If anybody wants to talk about this fascinating topic and keep it mature and peaceful, please share your ideas. I am all about peaceful intellectual discussion when talking to others who are engaging in it.
      Last edited by Universal Mind; 01-11-2009 at 08:26 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


    4. #479
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
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      Yes that's what people have been doing.

      If you'd like to make some sort of formal argument which hasn't already been covered then please go ahead.

    5. #480
      Consciousness in the Void Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Yes that's what people have been doing.
      You know that you have been initiating insults, just as Spock and Wendy have. I never once initiated insults in here. It is a fact, and you know it.

      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      If you'd like to make some sort of formal argument which hasn't already been covered then please go ahead.
      I have said what I have to say on the topic for now, which is why I invited others to introduce new perspectives and subtopics. Let's not discourage that. If you want to start personal conflicts with people, deep philosophical topic threads are not really a good place for it. Let's see what others have to say.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


    6. #481
      Xei
      UnitedKingdom Xei is offline
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      You know that you have been initiating insults, just as Spock and Wendy have. I never once initiated insults in here. It is a fact, and you know it.
      You have taken to extremely disproportionate name calling at people who just told you that you do not have adequate mathematical experience. You just did it about five posts ago, and multiple times throughout the thread. Everybody can see it.
      I have said what I have to say on the topic for now, which is why I invited others to introduce new perspectives and subtopics. Let's not discourage that. If you want to start personal conflicts with people, deep philosophical topic threads are not really a good place for it. Let's see what others have to say.
      Honestly I don't think anybody else has anything to say.

    7. #482
      Consciousness in the Void Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      You have taken to extremely disproportionate name calling at people who just told you that you do not have adequate mathematical experience. You just did it about five posts ago, and multiple times throughout the thread. Everybody can see it.
      That was retaliation against very shitty ways of making the very shitty point. If people will stick to the topic and not make it a topic about me, I will have a purely philosophical conversation. I would much prefer that it go that way. How about you? Give it a try. How about it?

      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      Honestly I don't think anybody else has anything to say.
      Let's give them a chance. This has the potential for being one of the most interesting threads in this forum. Anybody who disagrees is welcome to stay out if it.
      Quote Originally Posted by really View Post
      God cannot destroy himself because He is Omnipotent.


    8. #483
      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      Okay, I just read back through the thread and retract my last statement. Drewmandan was the first person I could see to make a blatant insult and it was against UM. Before that it was, (fairly,) civil.

      After engaging with his immaturity, though, you kind of opened yourself up to personal attacks which you responded to with LARGE personal attacks. I don't see you instigating. I do see you escalating. (I don't think you were the sole escalator.)

      I also don't find where I or Xei blatantly insulted you. With a couple exceptions, you and I have had very little direct discussion. The most offensive thing I said before you told me to STFU was
      I tried to say that earlier... People keep insisting that it is like 9s just kept adding on in the next step like an assamtote. Apparently they can't understand that the number inherently has infinite zeros.
      I think wendy was just playing Devil's Advocate and was trying to piss people off. And you and Xei's thing started with Xei saying something about math, you saying you don't buy it, Xei saying 'I don't care,' you saying some mathematician or philosopher does care, Xei saying that your source was faulty, and from there it kind of blew up.

      No one person is at fault, (maybe drewmandan,) and I think we could proceed with the discussion as you suggested but... it's pretty much been covered.
      Last edited by spockman; 01-12-2009 at 12:37 AM.
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    9. #484
      adversary RedfishBluefish's Avatar
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      Er.. I'm glad I missed most the "name-calling" (been on holiday).

      Anyway, UM, If you still want to talk about "how" 0.9~ = 1, I think the most important point may be that the decimal system itself is basically imprecise (for example, one can't write the square root of 2 as a decimal number at all, because it's 'irrational'). So one should perhaps consider any decimal, eg. 0.1 as actually the limit of a series, ie. 0.10000....
      In the case of 0.1, the limit happens to be equal to all elements of the series, so no harm is done by mentally "approximating" with any of 0.1000, 0.10000000. However, in 0.3~ and 0.9~ the series does approach a specific number, so imagining the number as an element far along the series is incorrect, in this case.
      It's like comparing the limits of a straight line and hyperbola. Normally we deal with straight lines (0.1 etc), so one confuses the 'asymptote' (the "real value") with the line itself. It's still the asymptote that is relevant with the hyperbola (0.9~ etc), which is why it doesn't matter whether 0.9~ "reaches" 1.

      This is getting a bit... involved but I hope it helps.

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