Thread: Why is there existence instead of nothing?

Originally Posted by ClouD

Negative...positive, degrees of the same phenomenon.
Nothing...everything...

In the middle.

Well then, don't call yourself "nothing". Don't call myself "nothing" either, don't call ourselves anything, actually. Accept me for what I am.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Existence is obviously possible. Here it is. I just don't understand how. What is your philosophy that I am scared to face?

I was being dramatic. Sometimes I like horror effects. If you don't know how existence exists. Now what?

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

I was being dramatic. Sometimes I like horror effects.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

If you don't know how existence exists. Now what?

Start a thread on the topic?

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

It's a sentence if I put a full stop.

Wrong.

Start a thread on the topic?

You have done that.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

You have done that.

So here we are.

Lets try and figure it out then shall we? Or do you not want to figure it out? We can begin by getting a clear yes from you, that you do want to find out and will co-operate with another like me that always wishes to find out until it's done. You must accept that I wish to find out as you do. Or I cannot help you with this question.

You must consider the possibility that it's possible I could find out and know the answer. Unless you co-operate and say a clear yes I wish to find out and will work with someone who could possibly have the potential to raise the bar for both of us. Then creating a thread to make room for us to discuss it seriously would be a redundant response to what you think is an unanswerable question.

If you think it's possible there is an answer. You must say a clear yes I will co-operate with complete honesty to begin finding the answer. Only then can anything new proceed.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Lets try and figure it out then shall we? Or do you not want to figure it out? We can begin by getting a clear yes from you, that you do want to find out and will co-operate with another like me that always wishes to find out until it's done. You must accept that I wish to find out as you do. Or I cannot help you with this question.

You must consider the possibility that it's possible I could find out and know the answer. Unless you co-operate and say a clear yes I wish to find out and will work with someone who could possibly have the potential to raise the bar for both of us. Then creating a thread to make room for us to discuss it seriously would be a redundant response to what you think is an unanswerable question.

If you think it's possible there is an answer. You must say a clear yes I will co-operate with complete honesty to begin finding the answer. Only then can anything new proceed.

Was all of that necessary? I started a thread on the issue, thereby requesting answers. Saying I don't know the answer is not the same as saying there is no answer. Of course there is an answer. If you have it, you may start talking. (Haven't you been in this thread for a while? )

Good but to get anything new you have to admit to co-operation not just letting me talk. If someone is not willing to discover the logic through active involvement in practical experiments without a defensive wall up with their own conclusions there is no hope of participating in a new experience that shows you beyond what you would otherwise not have access to.

There is not much more I could say without demonstrating the answer. That requires your involvement to be willing to actually know it in reality and experience it. You have to first discard you own limiting ideas for a short period and when that period is over you can then resume what makes sense to you. I'm not saying or promising to know the full answer. Only some effects of significance.

Or if you wish to just have a plain old discussion about it without any initiative to be more motivated in finding the answer activity. It will not lead to much but if you think that is right for you that is ok. But do not expect me to be able to show you anything. You would be missing out if your intention is what you say it is.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Good but to get anything new you have to admit to co-operation not just letting me talk. If someone is not willing to discover the logic through active involvement in practical experiments without a defensive wall up with their own conclusions there is no hope of participating in a new experience that shows you beyond what you would otherwise not have access to.

There is not much more I could say without demonstrating the answer. That requires your involvement to be willing to actually know it in reality and experience it. You have to first discard you own limiting ideas for a short period and when that period is over you can then resume what makes sense to you. I'm not saying or promising to know the full answer. Only some effects of significance.

Or if you wish to just have a plain old discussion about it without any initiative to be more motivated in finding the answer activity. It will not lead to much but if you think that is right for you that is ok. But do not expect me to be able to show you anything. You would be missing out if your intention is what you say it is.

That depends on what it is. On another site a while back, some lady said she could prove the reality of magic to me if I spend thirty minutes a day for many months trying to use my mind to make a fire truck appear. I declined. What do you have in mind?

You have a good sense of humor.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Good but to get anything new you have to admit to co-operation not just letting me talk. If someone is not willing to discover the logic through active involvement in practical experiments without a defensive wall up with their own conclusions there is no hope of participating in a new experience that shows you beyond what you would otherwise not have access to.

There is not much more I could say without demonstrating the answer. That requires your involvement to be willing to actually know it in reality and experience it. You have to first discard you own limiting ideas for a short period and when that period is over you can then resume what makes sense to you. I'm not saying or promising to know the full answer. Only some effects of significance.

Or if you wish to just have a plain old discussion about it without any initiative to be more motivated in finding the answer activity. It will not lead to much but if you think that is right for you that is ok. But do not expect me to be able to show you anything. You would be missing out if your intention is what you say it is.

WOW you started this with UM too? And you complain people call you a troll? We are all here to learn, your arrogance that we are too stupid compared to you is only producing negativity.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

You have a good sense of humor.

Thanks. So, what do you have in mind?

I think UM, and Minervas should get a room. I seen them responding to eachother in several threads.

Get it on you 2.

Originally Posted by really

Well then, don't call yourself "nothing". Don't call myself "nothing" either, don't call ourselves anything, actually. Accept me for what I am.

You misunderstood, reading the book by it's cover.

Alright I'm not sure if I'm stating something someone else has already.
But I can’t help but to reply.

There is something because there is space.
If there was nothing there would be no space.
And the notion of there being no space cannot exist, hence existence.
There was no beginning and there is no ending.
Existence just is. Because the concept or notion of “nothing” simply cannot exist.

In other words one verses zero. One being something, zero being nothing.
Nothing created existence it always has been is and always will be.
I don’t mean “nothing” as literally nothing, just nothing. I hope this makes sense.

Anyway see ya around.

Originally Posted by taltho

Because the concept or notion of “nothing” simply cannot exist.

Yes! I think that is the explanation. But what caused it to be where nothing cannot exist? In asking that, I feel like I am standing face to face with the answer, but with a blindfold on. It is as if the answer is so close here I can reach out and touch it, but I don't fully know how to. Maybe the answer to that question is nothing. The fact that nothing cannot exist does not need a cause. Well then, why is there existence in the first place, as the only thing that can exist? I just stood at the door of the answer and arrived where I started. This has Zen written all over it. There must be something to Zen.

Originally Posted by taltho

I don’t mean “nothing” as literally nothing, just nothing. I hope this makes sense.

Yeah, the word "nothing" has two meanings, as illustrated by this...

Nothing is better than infinite happiness.
A gas station sandwich is better than nothing.
Therefore, a gas station sandwich is better than infinite happiness.

lol

sandwiches and gas stations make me think of beer... Mmm beer... boy I'm glad theres existence. Otherwise there would be nothing...

The reason why there is existence is so we can drink beer.

So would say the drunken Zen.

Originally Posted by taltho

The reason why there is existence is so we can drink beer.

Sometimes I see it that way. When I really crave beer, I think it is the only thing that exists. Existence = beer. (Existence = beer) = alcoholism.

Originally Posted by taltho

Alright I'm not sure if I'm stating something someone else has already.
But I can’t help but to reply.

There is something because there is space.
If there was nothing there would be no space.
And the notion of there being no space cannot exist, hence existence.
There was no beginning and there is no ending.
Existence just is. Because the concept or notion of “nothing” simply cannot exist.

In other words one verses zero. One being something, zero being nothing.
Nothing created existence it always has been is and always will be.
I don’t mean “nothing” as literally nothing, just nothing. I hope this makes sense.

I think I've said what I have to say.
Just trying to keep tings on topic for the sake of the thread starter. know what I mean?
What you've had to say is quite funny and it did make me laugh. LoL.

BTW the beer thing was just an illustration and is not meant to be taken literally. I don't believe the excessive use of alcohol is wise.

P.S.
Is it kosher to quote yourself... well I just did so I hope so.

Originally Posted by -

There is something because there is space.
If there was nothing there would be no space.
And the notion of there being no space cannot exist, hence existence.

Space only exists to people who have eyes to see...and in reality all that is is either the interaction or lack there of between eyes and light. General space doesn't really have any proof of its existence...all we know for sure is that energy reacts. And since the notion of a thing being already forever (versus growing forever) it makes more sense for space not to exist than to exist.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Space only exists to people who have eyes to see...and in reality all that is is either the interaction or lack there of between eyes and light.

So are you saying that space is only perception rendered by our ability to see?
Well aren't light and sight something? Thereby proving existence...

Originally Posted by Sandform

General space doesn't really have any proof of its existence...all we know for sure is that energy reacts.

How do you suppose space has no proof of it's existence?
And since, as you say, we know that energy reacts then the idea of there being nothing is an absurdity.

Originally Posted by Sandform

And since the notion of a thing being already forever (versus growing forever) it makes more sense for space not to exist than to exist.

Infinity just is and space gives it the ability to be. for without space there would be no room. Also even more controversial I don't believe that it's growing or shrinking or any other such notion. You see I think it just is and never changing. Like I said, controversial. It only changes in our very limited perspective. Infinity is very difficult to understand or explain.

So for this reason I believe the notion of nothing is an absurdity.

Originally Posted by taltho

So are you saying that space is only perception rendered by our ability to see?
Well aren't light and sight something? Thereby proving existence...

Your talking as if I'm saying existence doesn't exist...and that light and sight aren't things. I'm saying it is entirely possible that space as we perceive it doesn't exist. Just because we see dimensions doesn't make them exist.

How do you suppose space has no proof of it's existence?
And since, as you say, we know that energy reacts then the idea of there being nothing is an absurdity.

Again...looks around for where I said that there is nothing. Just because you can't fathom how a thing can exist without having literal dimension doesn't mean that it isn't possible.

So for this reason I believe the notion of nothing is an absurdity.

You keep on pretending like I'm saying nothing exists...I'm just saying that there are certain restraints on the way that perception is allowed, and in reality nothing we see looks anything like what it actually is. Magnification, color, shape, size, all of these things are calculated by our minds.

Edit: I'm sure you wouldn't say the first, second, and third dimensions don't exist, because in order for space to exist they would have to, however, by your logic, they can not exist independently.