Thread: The Philosophy of Music

Originally Posted by Vampyre

Nice song. If you like that, you'd probably like Halcyon & On & On by Orbital. It's my favourite song. I heard it over 10 years ago, loved it, and still love it today.

Pretty good song. Isn't that from mortal combat?

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Pretty good song. Isn't that from mortal combat?

Yes it is; the first one.

Music is an organized collection of sounds meant to evoke emotion. Therefore, it can be as complex or simple as its composer wants to be, and it is the way it is organized that provide aural comfort.

For me music is only special when it makes you feel something. It is to me the most incredible art in which the musicians are feeling the music, its alive!
Luv music

Originally Posted by Xei

I agree that most lyrics have no overall coherency. They are just picked because they have the correct syllables.

It's not normally a bad thing, but it does add to the song when they actually make sense (I disagree that Waterfall is such a song though. I've always felt it was the exact opposite).

The only bad thing when is when bands start saying 'oh well we meant it to be a metaphor for blah blah blah...' and they make shit up to try and justify it.

I noticed that amateur poetry suffers from the same flaw. I like to read random poetry online Mostly it's nonsensical although you get a feeling as if an author tried to voice some feeling. Or sometimes it's partly nonsensical, while another part is crystal clear.

Strangely often very clear-minded people write such murky poems. As if some kind of switch triggers in their heads when they start to rhyme things...

I wish lyrics-writers took poetry courses.

Great start everyone! I agree with much of what has been said on this thread... though one thing hasn't really been covered all that well. That is, what is behind music... and the driving force behind what the artist makes. I see music as energy, and everything about that music is energy... even the motives that brought it into being. I like most music, the big factor for me... is just if it has good 'vibe' overall. I don't like songs as much if I know they have some specific motive other than to make music... like for money, fame, or something like that. If the music doesn't offend anyone, has a nice sound... and good energy then I'll usually like it. For me, when I play, I don't try to 'find' the music... and I don't limit myself at all, I just play the music as it comes.

If nobody has seen August Rush i suggest DO IT NOW! that movie is AMAZING! i am normally only into the action movies but this movie is something to behold. Music is all around us, all you have to do is listen.

Anyway, go rent, or download or whatever and watch that movie, it's so worth the almost 2 hours of watching.

On the importance of music's qualities:

I dunno if this makes me the odd-man out, but although I think melody is one of the most important things in music, harmony is really more important to me. A note by itself has no predetermined meaning, no real value. But when other notes sound simultaneously along with that note, the note has a purpose in the structure of the chord. Sure, when melody is involved, the note is followed by another note, and there is an interval between them, but its effect is not as great as playing them together, IMPO. My hierarchy of musical elements - in order of importance - is as follows:

1. Harmony
2. Melody
3. Beat/Rhythm (as in percussion, etc.)
4. Lyrics

Yes, I put lyrics last. Why? Because I personally think they blow balls. Lyrics aren't an innate part of the language of music - they're just language that's tacked onto music. It saddens me how many people listen to music only because they want to hear some big, activist message in the lyrics. Ever wonder why that style of gibberish singing (♫boo-bop, da doo, skidoo, dee diddly, dum, dee doo!♪) exists in the first place? Because lyrical meaning is completely unnecessary for music. Feeling and meaning exsist in the music itself, not the words we tack onto it. I'm not saying that there aren't some really well-written lyrics in the history of music. But I am saying they're not needed, not required for music to be considered music. An' tha's all I gotta say abou' tha'!

On its significance to video games:

Think about this. You're playing any given Mega Man game on the Nintendo Entertainment System. But the music tracks won't play for some reason. You can hear sound effects, but no music. Sounds like fun, right? Well no, it's not fun, in fact. If I were given a choice - "You can either play Mega Man games with no music, or not at all." - I would honestly choose 'not at all'. And that means quite a lot coming from me, as that is one of my favorite vg series of all time.

Can anyone honestly imagine playing the video games they grew up with, but without the music? Sure, it was a bunch of blips and bleeps - such was the capability of 8-bit sound engines - but any fuckron (that's a combination of "fucking" and "moron") can see that most of that 8-bit music was well-composed. It's like if you're riding in a car with friends and you get the theme to Mike Tyson's Punch-Out stuck in your head. You start humming it, and your friends, driven by nostalgia, will join in with the harmonies.

And this is exactly why modern video games piss me off. If games today even have a musical score, it's based off the same pop-culture BS music we've all heard before - the rubbish kind that Xei's talking about. It's a freakin' insult to those of us who've had an NES controller in our hands since we were little tykes. I'll never forget the countless musical masterpieces found in the older video games I've played ("older" as in PS1 and back), all of which have profoundly influenced my own musical tastes.

Originally Posted by Arutad

From Waterafall:

Stands on shifting sands
The scales held in her hands
The wind it just whips her away
And fills up her brigantine sails

First she was sailing, now she's standing on shifting sands (?), with scales (?) in her hands, then the wind whips her away so far that she gets to the sea or an ocean... And then she's claimed to be a waterfall, although it's metaphorical, but I still can't see why she's compared to a waterfall.

All that doesn't sound very sensible to me.

As for songs, I listened to those very songs that you offer MBV is too slow for my taste, and with a "weak" voice, Stone Roses not much better, to be honest. But background music is great.

I've never heard this song, but just from reading through the lyrics it is clear to me that the song makes sense if you know what it is about. The imagery is consistent and there is a pretty straight forward narrative. I can't be sure that this is the case, but I would be willing to be that if we knew what the song was about it would all make sense.

I am more fascinated by the lyrics than the song itself. Of course I do enjoy good rhythm and riffs, but lyrics are my foremost interest. It has to awake feelings, make me ponder something or give me an inspiration. I disagree with Lëzen in that, because in my opinion lyrics are inherent in music. I do agree that nowadays most people can't write proper lyrics or songs, but that's the reason I don't listen that kind of music.

I'm not sure what exactly you guys expect from lyrics if you think that "today's music" has less meaningful lyrics. To me, they're just as meaningful and poetic as any other time. Perhaps someone could list some examples of what's considered meaningful versus non-meaningful lyrics.

I'm not particularly interested in lyrics, but I wouldn't weigh them as any less important than the rest of the music. They're a unique instrument with capabilities unmatched by any other.

For popular music, yes they are horrible. There are still modern bands and artist who utilize language as its fullest.

Still I enjoy more the past, when people had more to say. More than "Uh ah I want to f*** you"

Ok, since you didn't pick specific examples, I have. Which of these is more meaningful?

Marilyn Manson - The Beautiful People (1996)

And I don't want you and I don't need you
Don't bother to resist, or I'll beat you
It's not your fault that you're always wrong
The weak ones are there to justify the strong

The beautiful people, the beautiful people
It's all relative to the size of your steeple
You can't see the forest for the trees
You can't smell your own shit on your knees

There's no time to discriminate,
Hate every motherfucker
That's in your way

[Chorus:]
Hey you, what do you see?
Something beautiful, something free?
Hey you, are you trying to be mean?
If you live with apes man, it's hard to be clean

The worms will live in every host
It's hard to pick which one they eat most

The horrible people, the horrible people
It's as anatomic as the size of your steeple
Capitalism has made it this way,
Old-fashioned fascism will take it away

[Chorus]

There's no time to discriminate,
Hate every motherfucker
That's in your way

The beautiful people
The beautiful people (aahh) [x4]

[Chorus x2]

The beautiful people [x8]

Marilyn Manson - Just A Car Crash Away (2007)

She blew me her death-kiss
And the mouth-marks
Bled down my eye
Like her dying
On my windshield
I can already feel
Her worms
Eating my spine
So how can it be this lonely?
Is this all we get
For our lives?
Is love only sweet when
One of us dies?

Then I knew that our love was
Just a car crash away
I knew that our love was just a car crash away
I knew that our love was
Just a car crash away
I knew that our love was
Just a car crash away

Love is a fire
Burns down all that it sees
Burns down everything
Everything you think
Will burn
Everything you say

I knew that our love was
Just a car crash away
Knew that our love was
Just a car crash away
Just a car crash away
I knew that our love was
Just a
Car
Crash
Away

Love is a fire
Burns down all that it sees
Burns down everything
Everything you think
Will burn
Everything you say

Note: If you think Marilyn Manson's lyrics aren't meaningful, consider the fact that he is the number 1 target in the "music promotes bad behaviour" battle.

you want good lyrics, don't get no better than this:

Well, I just got into town about an hour ago
Took a look around, see which way the wind blow
Where the little girls in their hollywood bungalows
Are you a lucky little lady in the city of light
Or just another lost angel...city of night
City of night, city of night, city of night, woo, cmon
L.a. woman, l.a. woman
L.a. woman sunday afternoon x3
Drive through your suburbs
Into your blues, into your blues, yeah
Into your blue-blue blues
Into your blues, ohh, yeah
I see your hair is burnin
Hills are filled with fire
If they say I never loved you
You know they are a liar
Drivin down your freeways
Midnight alleys roam
Cops in cars, the topless bars
Never saw a woman...
So alone, so alone x2
Motel money murder madness
Lets change the mood from glad to sadness
Mr. mojo risin, mr. mojo risin x2
Got to keep on risin
Mr. mojo risin, mr. mojo risin
Mojo risin, gotta mojo risin
Mr. mojo risin, gotta keep on risin
Risin, risin
Gone risin, risin
Im gone risin, risin
I gotta risin, risin
Well, risin, risin
I gotta, wooo, yeah, risin
Woah, ohh yeah
Well, I just got into town about an hour ago
Took a look around, see which way the wind blow
Where the little girls in their hollywood bungalows
Are you a lucky little lady in the city of light
Or just another lost angel...city of night
City of night, city of night, city of night, woah, cmon
L.a. woman, l.a. woman, l.a. woman, your my woman
Little l.a. woman, little l.a. woman
L.a. l.a. woman woman, l.a. woma

I forgot to mention this in my earlier post; the most important aspect of the writing of music is the empty space. It leaves the mind to fill in the gaps and forces interpretation. Each period of silence has a large part influence towards the total piece of music. Without silence, all you have is a massive barrage of constant noise.

Lyrics:

Anyone who thinks modern lyrics are any worse than older lyrics is biased. Simply put, there are equally meaningful lyrics and equally meaningless lyrics in both time periods. Take, for example, Foghat's "Slow Ride", and compare to The Fray's "Trust Me." Or, Pink Floyds "A Pillow Of Winds" and compare to Justin Timberlake's "Sexy Back."

Harmony:

I agree about how good harmony is. Take the most demonic, evil riff you want to imagine it. Now harmonize it in m2's. It'll sound so much worse. The same applies to nice, happy riffs. Harmonize in maj3's and it'll sound nicer, though the effects are not as dramatic. Also, another effect related to harmony that I like is...

Ambience:

I like an ambient part in a song, harmonizing slightly with different aspects of the music. You can't hear it, unless you really pay attention, but it adds so much depth to the music. Blends, you know? I guess what I mean is that depth is an easy way to add something, propelling music from "good" to "great". You need atmosphere. Pink Floyd is a perfect example.

Melody:

I like no wave. I won't lie. I like a no wave riff. Rhythmically, it acts like an ordinary riff. But melodically, it's really distinct and it rejects traditional music and sounds fairly disconnected and it has a very head-turning effect. You want to listen to find out why it sounds the way it does. The Pixies are a good example of this.

Rhythm:

Rhythm is important to me, I suppose. Steady rhythm. A little twitchy can be fun at times. Too many rhythms stacked up create a hectic feel that I hate. That's why I like a steady bassline and simple drums.

Performance:

An important aspect of music is the performance. Radiohead hooked me from the first time I saw Thom Yorke having a musical panic attack into his mic while Johnny Greenwood turned away from the audience and stared at his shoes. Or The Who. Or Glenn Branca. You've gotta have something to watch.

Tone:

Gotta have tone. The one thing that defeats Dragonforce is their tone. Sure, they simplify their music live (and fail at playing it anyway) but what really ruins them is their tone live. Their guitars sound awful, especially considering that they have to use thousand dollar pedals because they don't know how to do a dive-bomb. Another thing I like about Radiohead is their attention to tone.

Yeah. I think an aspect of comedy works for some people, but I didn't feel like making a whole section on it. Meh.

EDIT:

Silence:

I'm not a fan of silence as a whole, except in John Cage's case, but I do like it when one instrument lets the others breath a little. Yes is a good example. Their bassist and drummer are extremely talented but they don't just play incomprehensible streams of awesome. They let the vibe fill in the space between notes. I told my drummer to "let it breathe" once, and he looked at me really funny and didn't change the way he was playing. Just a quick related story.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I've never heard this song, but just from reading through the lyrics it is clear to me that the song makes sense if you know what it is about. The imagery is consistent and there is a pretty straight forward narrative. I can't be sure that this is the case, but I would be willing to be that if we knew what the song was about it would all make sense.

Even Xei (who was the one to offer this song) agreed that its lyrics aren't sensible.

Mmmm no I never...

And that's why Pink Floyd was is incredible.

It's true, I always thought Time had the most potent and coherent lyrics I'd ever heard.

They had their fare share of nonsense though, for example the first verse of Wish You Were Here (although it's beautiful, it doesn't really make any sense).

Originally Posted by Xei

the first verse of Wish You Were Here (although it's beautiful, it doesn't really make any sense).

The defect of ambiguity has taken you Maybe you can analyze it one day and see how it "makes any sense". Everything fundamentally makes sense, not all of it is logical thinking though.

Originally Posted by Dreams4free

The defect of ambiguity has taken you Maybe you can analyze it one day and see how it "makes any sense". Everything fundamentally makes sense, not all of it is logical thinking though.

Somehow I think it's a safe assumption that Xei implied it isn't very logical by saying it doesn't make sense.

I have to say, you seem to like pointing out some of the most useless things.

Music is an expression; a work of art with sound as its medium. Within it is an intention or purpose, and it's true meaning and beauty is found through recognition.

Originally Posted by really

Music is an expression; a work of art with sound as its medium. Within it is an intention or purpose, and it's true meaning and beauty is found through recognition.

Then how come culture is considered to be interesting to a few, while pop-culture is "for the masses"? It's even called mass-culture in my language.

Originally Posted by Arutad

Then how come culture is considered to be interesting to a few, while pop-culture is "for the masses"? It's even called mass-culture in my language.

Popular culture is for the popular culture. That it happens to be popular or mainstream genre is more so describing a trend.

Music gives powerful emotion, I am addicted to it.