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    1. #1
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      What if there is something outside the universe?

      Say for instance, there was an end to the universe, and there is something "Outside" of it. Like say, we are merely in a small marble comprised of galaxies, stars, planets ect.

      The concept of this is so prodigious, I was hesitant to post this, so I apologize if this is a little "out there".

      Remember the ending sequence to the movie Men In Black? You know what I mean then...

      BTW, I new to these forums, so sorry if I did something wrong in terms of guidelines or breaking into the forums. I'll be working on my profile and getting to know you all. I find philosophy and in general, this whole site very interesting. However I often find such discussions to be overly trivial and somewhat of a "neverending debate". But it's very fun and great to talk about. I was excited to post here, and the above question was the first thing I though of.

      Thank You

    2. #2
      Cosmic Citizen ExoByte's Avatar
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      Google "Multiverse"
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      Cool exobyte, I should have though of that. But perhaps something even outside the Multiverse itself?

      The Omniverse, and after that, the Polyverse (just a fabricated name to throw in there). And so on...

      I know this sounds funny and ridiculous, but how about a series of things ending in "Verse" until we stumble upon something else?

      I shouldn't push this too far should I? Lol
      Last edited by Tall Tale; 12-13-2009 at 11:35 PM.

    4. #4
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      I think the chances of more than one universe existing, and stuff existing outside of the universe makes more sense than not.

      If you go back far enough in time, eventually you get to the point where either some thing just randomly appeared out of no where, or random events caused stuff that has been here for all of time to suddenly react in a way they never have before. Both seem unlikely.

      To me it seems more likely that there is some system that creates and destroys universes, just like solar systems and galaxes are formed then destroyed. Infinite time backwards, makes a lot more sense if everything is in a cycle and repeating. Since the unvierse isn't doing it(as far as we can tell), then there should be something else outside of it.

    5. #5
      Xei
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      I know this sounds funny and ridiculous, but how about a series of things ending in "Verse" until we stumble upon something else?
      What do you mean by something else? Why wouldn't that thing also be a 'verse'?

      Personally I think there's a multiverse, but at some level you're going to have something which contains the whole of reality. But it's worth remembering, the universe itself is far to large to comprehend, really.

    6. #6
      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      The whole thing seems like a sort of mental masturbation to me. How do you define the universe? Usually I take it to mean all that which we are able to detect. If we can detect something, it is part of the universe. Therefore, anything 'outside' the universe is by definition, undetectable and can be considered to not exist. As subjective beings, the only things that really matter are those that we can experience, so if something is intrinsically beyond our experience, then it effectively is non-existent.

      The multiverse idea is not the same as something 'outside' the universe in my opinion. Universe means 'all that is' so technically a different time-space continuum that runs parallel to our own is still part of the one universe. This may just be a problem with labelling, of course, since no matter how much stuff we find, all of it together will still be contained in the universe simply by how the word is defined.

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    7. #7
      Xei
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      When talking about a multiverse it's custom really to refer to the result of our Big Bang as the 'universe', just to make the terminology easier.

      I don't really see why things outside of our experience shouldn't exist. For example, what about stars on the other side of the universe from which the light is yet to reach us? Do they not exist until the light reaches us? If so, how does the light reach us if they don't exist? What about Earth? It didn't exist until anybody was here to experience it. But then abiogenesis could not have occured and we never would have existed. It doesn't make any logical sense.

    8. #8
      Theoretically Impossible Idolfan's Avatar
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      You can't go outside the universe, it's the universe.
      The starz...
      The planets...
      The intricate and dynamic machinery of nature...
      Are you saying,
      that all of this was created,
      BY A MONKEY??????

    9. #9
      Cosmic Citizen ExoByte's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Idolfan View Post
      You can't go outside the universe, it's the universe.
      So, I guess no one ever taught you not to use the word your defining in the definition.

      Also the definition of universe "encompasses everything" has changed in recent years. Specifically with the study of Quantum Mechanics. It is not as simple as "The Universe is the Universe" anymore. The OP has a valid inquiry.
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    10. #10
      Member Vampyre's Avatar
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      Start a religion about it. Maybe you'll luck out like Scientology. lol

    11. #11
      Consciousness Itself Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tall Tale View Post
      I shouldn't push this too far should I? Lol
      Hey, go for it. This is fascinating stuff. No need to apologize for having deep thoughts. Anybody who bitches at you for it is a stupid troll. Exploring reality and thought is a good thing.
      How do you know you are awake?

    12. #12
      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tall Tale View Post
      Say for instance, there was an end to the universe, and there is something "Outside" of it. Like say, we are merely in a small marble comprised of galaxies, stars, planets ect.

      The concept of this is so prodigious, I was hesitant to post this, so I apologize if this is a little "out there".

      Remember the ending sequence to the movie Men In Black? You know what I mean then...

      BTW, I new to these forums, so sorry if I did something wrong in terms of guidelines or breaking into the forums. I'll be working on my profile and getting to know you all. I find philosophy and in general, this whole site very interesting. However I often find such discussions to be overly trivial and somewhat of a "neverending debate". But it's very fun and great to talk about. I was excited to post here, and the above question was the first thing I though of.

      Thank You
      Yes, odds are, we are not exclusive. While the universe thus far is infinitely expanding, it is finite; there reaches a point where matter and energy cease to exist at all. The void beyond is so vast and deep, that as of yet, we are unable to detect anything beyond it. That said, I find it unlikely that there has been only one big bang. Interesting, thought provoking, cool.

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    13. #13
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      Multiverse....does that mean there is a second me somewhere out there? with or without the exact same thoughts as i am thinking now? or am i a female there like "The One". By second me, i also mean infinite because most likely there would be infinite me's out there in their cosmos.

    14. #14
      Expert LDer Affirmation! DeeryTheDeer's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xaqaria View Post
      The whole thing seems like a sort of mental masturbation to me.
      Mental masturbation is pleasurable, not sinful. Let the thinkers think. Besides, thinking leads to more discoveries and advances that once didn't exist.
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    15. #15
      Theoretically Impossible Idolfan's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ExoByte View Post
      So, I guess no one ever taught you not to use the word your defining in the definition.

      Also the definition of universe "encompasses everything" has changed in recent years. Specifically with the study of Quantum Mechanics. It is not as simple as "The Universe is the Universe" anymore. The OP has a valid inquiry.
      If you went outside the whole of the universe, then what you used to be in would cease to be the whole of the universe, so it's a logical impossibility.
      The starz...
      The planets...
      The intricate and dynamic machinery of nature...
      Are you saying,
      that all of this was created,
      BY A MONKEY??????

    16. #16
      Xei
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      You kinda just completely ignored Exo. What you just said doesn't contradict him.

    17. #17
      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Idolfan View Post
      If you went outside the whole of the universe, then what you used to be in would cease to be the whole of the universe, so it's a logical impossibility.
      Oh, because we couldn't possibly define "universe" in more than one way. Perhaps, beyond the massive void sometimes called the border of the universe, there are other universes, together compiling the "multiverse." I see no reason our universe should be exclusive.

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      Everyone is a universe, we've been living in a multiverse this whole time!

    19. #19
      Drivel's Advocate Xaqaria's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Xei View Post
      When talking about a multiverse it's custom really to refer to the result of our Big Bang as the 'universe', just to make the terminology easier.

      I don't really see why things outside of our experience shouldn't exist. For example, what about stars on the other side of the universe from which the light is yet to reach us? Do they not exist until the light reaches us? If so, how does the light reach us if they don't exist? What about Earth? It didn't exist until anybody was here to experience it. But then abiogenesis could not have occured and we never would have existed. It doesn't make any logical sense.
      Thats not really what I'm talking about. It is possible to experience a star whose light hasn't reached us, either by waiting or going out to find it. I meant in the sense of a space time continuum that never intersects our own, so that no information can ever pass from one to the other. I was assuming the definition of universe that means "everything we perceive to physically exist" and so we can think about other 'universes' that are outside of what is physically possible to percieve, but it will never really get anyone anywhere. We might as well assume they don't exist since as far as we are concerned, they don't.

      Also, as far as general relativity is concerned, it is also possible to experience the past even though we haven't figured out how to do it yet.

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    20. #20
      Sleeping Dragon juroara's Avatar
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      hmmmmmmmm!! sounds like a fun mind trip


      like wrapping your head around eternity. mandelbrot time!

    21. #21
      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      I'm going to go back to the creation of the universe for a sec.

      This shit blows my mind. I used to ALWAYS think about it when I was younger, then I eventually didn't anymore. I suddenly thought about it out of nowhere the other day while I was driving.... I think. Can't remember. But the point is I finally fully grasped the outrageous concept. Or, I grasped the fact that it is impossible to grasp the concept.

      I think Quantum Physics would help answer some questions when we can understand it. I'll have to read Schrodinger's Cat though and figure out what it's all about.

      But anyway, I realise that our big bang theory is probably bullshit. If there is nothing, nothing can be created. It's just not possible. But then how do we get here? When did everything start? How did everything start? Did it ever start? People have asked this so many times.... it's pointless. Because we don't know how our universe even started in the first place.

      My theory of how 'our' universe got here is that all this matter was sucked through a black hole. It eventually formed all these planets and stars and etc. How the other universes got here (or 'there' (assuming there are multiple universes and black holes are the gateways between them)) I have no idea and don't see much point of contemplating it or trying to figure it out. But I will anyway because it inspires such fantastic monumental awe.

      As for something being outside our universe or multi-verses, I have thought about this too. I've often pondered going outside the universe. Would it be nothing? No light (not white or black, nothing), sound, touch, just nothing? Would it just destroy you? Can things exist outside the universe? I don't know.

      What if there is something outside the universe? If there is something outside of it, it automatically becomes a part of the universe. But the way you are thinking about it.... like if we are in a circle, and it has a set cut off point where there is nothing, and we throw something outside it, or someone goes outside of it. What if? Well, that would be mind blowing. It would mean we would have to disband everything we know about everything.

      TBH, the only conclusion I can come to that makes sense, is that some other being/s or some form of matter that isn't even conscious, created us (is a being, through some awesome technology they have, if just some matter/object than through some sort of reaction) and that the 'universe' they/it/whatever are in is COMPLETELY different from ours. Like we can't even comprehend it. I say this because I can't think of a way for there to be nothing and suddenly something appears and the universe gets spewed out. It doesn't make sense to me. So I think they this other universe I hypothesize is so different from ours, there is no nothing or something, there is no start or end. Like.... they aren't even concepts. It's just some.... unimaginable thing/place where awesome and epic things happen. And one of the facets of this 'place' makes it so that it is not unfeasible for there to be nothing and then something. But it can't be comprehended unless we could visit it to even get a glimpse of what it looks like.

      Tall Tale - Have you ever listened to/watched or read things by Carl Sagan? He's a great philosophical astronomer, I think he'd be right up your alley, same goes for anyone else contributing to this discussion.

    22. #22
      Sleeping Dragon juroara's Avatar
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      well the big bang only tries to explain how this infinite point of energy became everything that we know of today - the known universe

      but the big bang is not a theory that explains how everything was created

      it relies on this infinite point of energy to have already existed before the creation of the universe. where this point came from, how long it was an infinite point, isn't something the big bang tries to explain

      it's not the theory of the infinite point - just the theory of it's bang

      even thinking about how this infinite point expands and becomes everything in the known universe is mind numbing enough!

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      LD's this year: ~7 tommo's Avatar
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      I don't think that's quite true juroara. Afaik, (I've never actually read any books about it, just what I've been told and articles I've read etc.) the big bang theory also contains an explanation of how this point appeared. It has something to do with tiny particles that randomly appear and disappear. I have no idea how that's possible.

      Jesus fuck, every time I think about it, like just then, my mind does something very strange lol.

      Just to expand(sort of) on my idea about another universe being completely different. I have realised it might be hard for some people to even understand what I'm talking about. I have noticed scientists, when trying to figure out the chance of life on other planets, always assume all life is made from carbon, so there has to be water on a planet for it to sustain life, because all life forms that we know which are made from carbon need water to live. This is wroooong.
      The chances are, in another universe, life has arisen out of some other thing. So it wouldn't need water or oxygen etc.
      Even this fact alone could change that whole universe and the way those beings perceive it. Maybe they know exactly how this thing was created, maybe they don't. Maybe it's so fucking simple, but because of our model of the universe we just can't figure it out.

      Maybe I'm MAD!

      EDIT: Oh yeah, just realised I went wayyy off topic.
      The original post was about something being outside the universe. Please proceed to room 12A to continue arguing about that.
      Last edited by tommo; 12-19-2009 at 01:39 AM.

    24. #24
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      Last edited by Majestic; 12-19-2009 at 02:31 AM.
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    25. #25
      Miss Sixy <span class='glow_FFFFFF'>Maria92</span>'s Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by juroara View Post
      well the big bang only tries to explain how this infinite point of energy became everything that we know of today - the known universe

      but the big bang is not a theory that explains how everything was created

      it relies on this infinite point of energy to have already existed before the creation of the universe. where this point came from, how long it was an infinite point, isn't something the big bang tries to explain

      it's not the theory of the infinite point - just the theory of it's bang

      even thinking about how this infinite point expands and becomes everything in the known universe is mind numbing enough!
      Quote Originally Posted by tommo View Post
      I don't think that's quite true juroara. Afaik, (I've never actually read any books about it, just what I've been told and articles I've read etc.) the big bang theory also contains an explanation of how this point appeared. It has something to do with tiny particles that randomly appear and disappear. I have no idea how that's possible.

      Jesus fuck, every time I think about it, like just then, my mind does something very strange lol.

      Just to expand(sort of) on my idea about another universe being completely different. I have realised it might be hard for some people to even understand what I'm talking about. I have noticed scientists, when trying to figure out the chance of life on other planets, always assume all life is made from carbon, so there has to be water on a planet for it to sustain life, because all life forms that we know which are made from carbon need water to live. This is wroooong.
      The chances are, in another universe, life has arisen out of some other thing. So it wouldn't need water or oxygen etc.
      Even this fact alone could change that whole universe and the way those beings perceive it. Maybe they know exactly how this thing was created, maybe they don't. Maybe it's so fucking simple, but because of our model of the universe we just can't figure it out.

      Maybe I'm MAD!

      EDIT: Oh yeah, just realised I went wayyy off topic.
      The original post was about something being outside the universe. Please proceed to room 12A to continue arguing about that.
      M-theory explains a lot at the present moment. There's supposedly a whole lot of data that lines up perfectly. It's still going to need a whole hell of a lot of research, but I think it holds water.

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