There is no doubt an Absolute Truth, and that does not negate the fact that every different belief, viewpoint, conceptualization, are all perfectly valid unto themselves. Why is it you think they cannot co-exist? |
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Oh I agree that there is reality, I just don't agree that it is absolute; or perhaps a better way to put it is since any such absolute reality is necessarily inconceivable, we cannot really comment on such an absolute reality at all. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
There is no doubt an Absolute Truth, and that does not negate the fact that every different belief, viewpoint, conceptualization, are all perfectly valid unto themselves. Why is it you think they cannot co-exist? |
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Last edited by really; 04-04-2010 at 04:53 AM.
The Ultimate Lucid Mp3 Thread Link
Mp3 track available here (02/2015): http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/36261038/file.html
I mean that the only interaction with the world that we have is a subjective one. I don't believe it is possible to even really understand an objective reality from a purely subjective perspective. I guess we can 'conceive' of an absolute reality since we are now talking about that concept, but our conception of it is definitely wrong. Since we can't even know how close our conception is to the True Nature of Reality, it is about the same as not having any conception at all. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
Exactly! Because reality is not a concept! Reality is Reality! |
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I think the mirror analogy is better than the canvas one. A canvas is a distinct surface even if it is blank. A mirror is truly nothing without the consideration of the reflection. You can talk about the glass or the shiny metal, but those aren't really the mirror, since if its not reflecting anything its not a mirror, its just glass and metal. |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
I see what you're saying. The funny thing is though, that there is no possible reality that is independent of subjectivity. In other words, no "independent objective reality" exists. There is no way to know of anything if there is no subjective context. |
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The Ultimate Lucid Mp3 Thread Link
Mp3 track available here (02/2015): http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/36261038/file.html
Really, one of the main reasons why many of your posts rub me the wrong way is because you speak in assertions without offering any reason why the things you say are true, as if you posess some knowledge that is hidden to the rest of us. You are talking about The Absolute as if it is something that you have intimate knowledge of. If that is the case, then fine but it doesn't really mean much in terms of a discussion. If you are an enlightened being then you should be able to explain The Absolute in a way that I can understand and accept its existence. If you don't have hidden knowledge, then what exactly is it beyond your beliefs that convince you it exists and is knowable? |
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Art
The ability to happily respond to any adversity is the divine.
Dream Journal Shaman Apprentice Chronicles
HaHaHa! Very good, grasshopper! I agree wholeheartedly! Reality is one. It is not split into subjective and objective. The concepts of subjective and objective, howsoever fundamental to our consensus 'reality', are one in the Absolute Reality. |
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I'm not offended, but for me to "offer" a reason to believe what I have said is to mistake that it is an intellectual conclusion. I.e. That I have arrived at the conclusions through reason and proof. I will say that I have no hidden knowledge that has some sort of implied specialness. What I'm saying is more like wisdom (it really is nothing original on my part) rather than trying to prove something. Despite this, it is a spiritual understanding that is rendered into intellectual terms. If you still don't see reason to believe something, perhaps it is more than that? |
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Last edited by really; 04-04-2010 at 06:55 AM.
The Ultimate Lucid Mp3 Thread Link
Mp3 track available here (02/2015): http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/36261038/file.html
Great thread!! |
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Nice try! But not good enough for me! (They should have a zen master smiley that hits the other smiley with a stick) I know that this is the trickiest and slipperiest of subject to speak of. Or even think about or comprehend. Because it is of the No-mind! You have to have a No-mind to no-think about it in order to no-understand it and to be it. |
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Last edited by Dannon Oneironaut; 04-04-2010 at 07:59 AM.
Dannon Oneironaut, I PM'd you. My post got a bit long and predictable for in here I think. |
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The Ultimate Lucid Mp3 Thread Link
Mp3 track available here (02/2015): http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/36261038/file.html
The Ultimate Lucid Mp3 Thread Link
Mp3 track available here (02/2015): http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/36261038/file.html
Well, the way I currently like to think about things is well... tricky. As to be expected. But I'll try my best to summarize things here. |
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The Hubble Telescope focused on one little area of space that could be seen between some stars in our galaxy and took a picture. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
"Mean" also means "matter" or "have relevance or significance". |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
All the variations you present support my original point. One meaning "meaning" does not have is relative mass or volume. We can look out as far as we like from where we are and find more "stuff," but we're still looking out from where we are. All meaning we attribute to our surroundings, including that meaning that minimizes our own import, comes from us. Time, matter, and objects, do not exist independent of our observation--not to overstate our role, but simply to acknowledge that we, the conscious, as part of our universe, do exist. Consciousness is an aspect of the universe. It's a conscious universe. We can only quibble over degree. |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
If we became extinct tomorrow, that insane amount of stuff out there would still be there and carry on as if we never existed. |
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How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
Really? Time operates independent of observers how, now? You can extrapolate any quantity of time into a bottomless navel from the point of view of any given observer, but how exactly does one extrapolate from our existence a real system in which past and future exist without an observer to determine what is present? |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it, |
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The universe "carrys on" regardless of what dies and what lives, and you cannot describe how it does this without humans, because essentially we are part of the universe in either case. The universe is not a separate thing and has no capacity to care for you; that is a just projection. |
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The Ultimate Lucid Mp3 Thread Link
Mp3 track available here (02/2015): http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/36261038/file.html
Time has quite limited meaning outside the context of observation. Everything that has happened to you has definitely happened, but everything that has not happened has happened as well, just beyond your purview. It falls within your capacity to literally choose your universe, and various particulars of it, but also to engrave certain eventualities more surely upon your neighbors, who have whatever connection to you, be it a third cousin or an internet forum. |
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If you have a sense of caring for others, you will manifest a kind of inner strength in spite of your own difficulties and problems. With this strength, your own problems will seem less significant and bothersome to you. By going beyond your own problems and taking care of others, you gain inner strength, self-confidence, courage, and a greater sense of calm.Dalai Lama
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