Thread: Is there anything you LIKE about *atheism* *religion*?

I never said otherwise. I said that atheism clears religion out of the way so that we can look clearly upon science and see what it's figured out. Also, the case of Newton pretty clearly demonstrates that a belief in a god as an explanatory mechanism obstructs science.

Let's also not forget what Newton might also have been able to accomplish if he hadn't wasted his time writing on religion - works which have no significance whatsoever today.

I never expected this thread to grow so much so quickly O_O

Those those who misguidedly think atheism is empty, hollow, meaningless, sad, lacking in beauty, or other such things, this gorgeous video explains said beauty very, very nicely:



(looks like it isn't loading by default, but if you switch it to 480p, it will work)

Originally Posted by Aquanina

No, it's impossible for you to understand. Because you're an atheist.

->

Atheism is nothing. It's so empty, hollow, and...dead. I just cannot understand it.

hrm hrm hrm!

im sure with atheism comes relevations that could be just as important to an individual as those that come with religious beliefs.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

There's nothing I like about atheism either.

There's plenty I don't like about various religions, but they each have something unique and interesting to offer (art, architecture, literature, various teachings and beliefs). Atheism is nothing. It's so empty, hollow, and...dead. I just cannot understand it.

Do you know how much time in my day I devote to "atheism"?

None. There are no associated rituals or gatherings to being an atheist (except maybe arguing on the internet).

This in no way hinders my ability to appreciate or create art or literature or whatever. My hollow, dead atheist self enjoys photography and playing the piano and sitting in the hot tub with a beer at night to look up to the stars and think. In fact, I probably have more time for this because I don't waste any at church or praying.

Many Christians and Muslims and others will live extremely one-dimensional lives that conform to the views of their religion and nothing more. They'll never truly explore the universe they live in and ponder existential questions. That's a shame.

Originally Posted by Hukif

Anyway, this thread isn't about trolling the other side that you don't like, but to express the stuff you like about the other side. I already did, you already did, now if everyone could stop bothering each other, that isn't the purpose of this thread.

Yea I agree here. I gave my statement that there is nothing I like about Atheism so I'm done with it. Peace out peeps. Until our next adventure.

/theard

Originally Posted by Aquanina

I guess I don't really understand atheism. Do atheists believe that there is no such thing as a soul? That there is no afterlife or nothing beyond death? That we just cease to exist? That we were created merely as a result of time and chance? That all beings are completely separate and the conscious mind is merely the result electrical impulses in the brain? Do some atheists believe in an afterlife? In reincarnation? In a spirit? A collective consciousness? etc. etc. etc. Is atheist specific to the concept of no "god" creator of the bible of any other world religions. What about the concept of the whole universe as god, and each person is part of god. How does that compare with atheism? It all confuses me so.

Atheism, simply put, is the lack of belief in god. Most of what you just listed is an entirely separate matter. True, atheists are more likely to not believe in a soul or an afterlife, but it doesn't follow that all that stuff can't exist without a god. And so what if there is no life after death? What if there is no soul? That doesn't impact our ability to feel or appreciate beauty. If anything, that gives us all the more reason to drink in the wonders of life while we still can. And so what if consciousness is the sole product of mental activity and electrical impulses? Does it not fascinate you that such a beautifully, magnificently, unfathomably complex device evolved from the very origins of the universe? Does what you see all around you every day so fail to hold your attention that you must attribute it to god?

Atheists and theists are equally capable of appreciating the beauty that surrounds us. We have the same range and depth of emotion. We just perceive such beauty differently. For atheists, it is the awe that we are so tiny, so insignificant, and yet so brilliantly evolved; that from our precarious perch upon a rock hurling around the sun at tremendous speeds, we exist and observe so very much. Theists see the intelligence behind blades of grass and the perfect symmetry of spiral galaxies. They marvel at the foresight of god to give us things like flowers to enjoy and seasons of the year. In the end, we are not so different in the matter of DO we see beauty in the cosmos, but rather in HOW we see such beauty. There are those from both camps that will point out how shallow and superficial the others' perceptions are, but in truth, they are only different.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

I guess I don't really understand atheism. Do atheists believe that there is no such thing as a soul? That there is no afterlife or nothing beyond death? That we just cease to exist? That we were created merely as a result of time and chance? That all beings are completely separate and the conscious mind is merely the result electrical impulses in the brain? Do some atheists believe in an afterlife? In reincarnation? In a spirit? A collective consciousness? etc. etc. etc. Is atheist specific to the concept of no "god" creator of the bible of any other world religions. What about the concept of the whole universe as god, and each person is part of god. How does that compare with atheism? It all confuses me so.

Speaking for myself:

I'm not sure what a soul is, or if there is any concrete definition for it. I suppose a lot of what other people call "soul" would fall under consciousness or the subconscious for me.

I don't know what will happen to me after I die. My educated guess based on my current understanding of physics and biology leads me to believe that I will cease to exist in the same manner that I can't define or remember my life before I was born. Immortality may be achievable in the near-future through technology but I don't think that was what you were hinting at.

When you say "we" were created out of chance, I assume you mean all humans. It seems unlikely for me that one planet's life out of trillions would be any more significant. That we are but a speck of dust in an infinite void points to me that we are indeed a product of chance.

I believe in reincarnation in a certain way. When I die my body will decay into simpler matter that will be taken back into the ecosystem and will eventually find its way in other life forms. So the atoms of my body will live on, but not in any meaningful way. Planting a tree over my grave would be a neat symbolic and slightly realistic way of keeping me alive beyond death.

I also believe that consciousness is a product of physical interactions within the brain. Neuroscience is very young and we've only scratched the surface of the brain's inner workings. Simple animals have simple brains and act accordingly. Mammals, especially primates, have very complex brains and show very complex behaviours and mental reasoning. Humans, with the most advanced brains of all, show full-blown consciousness. There's a logical progression of mental capacity with brain complexity, who knows if a descendant of ours will reach a state beyond "consciousness".

I don't see the point of the "universe and everyone is god" thing. I don't understand how that changes or means anything.

Basically atheism limits itself to not believing in any deities. It's a non-action, not a lifestyle. I don't think about my atheism in the same way that I don't think about my lack of telekinetic abilities. It just so happens though that most atheists are skeptics and will also chose not to believe in most of the things you listed. It's not that we don't want to, an afterlife or reincarnation sounds fun... I just can't bring myself to believe in something "because it would be nice", it feels deceiving instead of fulfilling.

I feel completely satisfied with what the natural universe has to offer.

Religious art is interesting. Religious music often instils great feelings, although I take a different message from it. The greatest architectural feats tend to be built in the name of a God or Gods.

I also like how religions bring disparate people together with a feeling of unity and love.

As an atheist however, I am sad that it takes a lie to achieve this. I would much rather people were able to celebrate their own collective humanity as something to be exalted, rather than requiring a fairytale, and something above them; I would rather people could naturally band together and love each other simply due to the shared attribute of being living beings, in itself, rather than due to sharing a delusion.

Good thread by the way, Overlord.

No one said anything about trying to abolish spirituality. What a ridiculous assessment.

Yeah, spirituality seldom leads to conflicts.

"My form of meditation is clearly superior!"
"You lie, for mine is the one true form!"
"Raaaawwwrrr, a Jihad upon you!"
"And a crusade to you, too!"

There are Buddhist atheists, atheists who believe in souls, atheists who believe in an afterlife or reincarnation, etc. etc.

wow!

Definitely won't be returning to this thread or any other thread dealing atheism. You guys have fun trying to abolish religion and spirituality.

And that isn't trolling? Mistakenly conflating religion with spirituality aside, proclaiming things that blatantly aren't true - especially in a thread where several atheists are trying to have an honest discussion with the other side - and (initially) making snarky comments when asked to clarify an opinion is trolling.

Let he who is without sin...

This is a nice thread and I'd rather not have it turn into a discussion about trolls.

i thought that was the point of this thread; to poke fun at each other so we don't take it to heart so much over in the other threads

i think i might be geninuely confused

I was "born" a spiritual person. Spent my whole life looking for God. I found him in various religions and systems of beliefs but they were all lacking something. Then I found Jehovah's Witnesses. Ahhhh, my search was over at long last.
Then I screw up, get kicked out, can't straighten my life out, am separated from God until I do... so yeah, Atheism has a LOT of appeal for me.
I would love to not be so innerly tormented (by my own doing, mind you).
It's not a simple thing to "stop believing". I believed when none of my relatives did. I fought so long and hard and all on my own because spirituality is built in me.
It's a very depressing topic for me, actually.

Pro's for Atheism: Not having to live up to superior ideals/lifestyle.

Wicca still holds SO much appeal for me in that regard. Whereas Christianity is about submitting to God and trusting he knows best and will guide your life accordingly; many of the "earth" religions take that control into their own hands. But being the person I am, I see that self ordained control as a ??? farce/illusion.

Interesting thread. But I shall leave before I get all girly.
Too late. And damn it, I have to leave for an appointment now, puffy eyed and everything.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Pro's for Atheism: Not having to live up to superior ideals/lifestyle.

Just a tiny nitpick, and maybe you didn't mean this to be a not-so-subtle jab, but "superior ideals/lifestyle" is a very subjective thing, and you make it sound like some absolute truth. I know you probably think it is, and that's fine, but it would make more sense to word it as, "Not having the definition of what 'a superior ideals/lifestyle' is, handed to you by someone you aren't willing to question."


----

As for what I think the pros of religion are. Well, it depends on the religion. When the main focus is on being great to yourself and others, and on breath meditation and such things, it can promote a healthy and happy life. I really like some of the Buddhist philosophies revolving around "happiness regardless of circumstances." Shinzen explains it better than I would:



But looking at the abrahamic religions, there are two good things I can think of:

1) Some of the music is really good

2) It provides a good framework for a reason to be good to yourself and to others. When not abused by fear-mongering idiots, as it too often is, it's a concrete metaphor that allows people to be the best that they can be.

Originally Posted by Aquanina

There's nothing I like about atheism either.

There's plenty I don't like about various religions, but they each have something unique and interesting to offer (art, architecture, literature, various teachings and beliefs). Atheism is nothing. It's so empty, hollow, and...dead. I just cannot understand it.

And all this time I thought it encouraged individuals to ask questions and promoted individual thought. =/

Like most people, I enjoy the art, myths, and the fact that it can bring people together.

I look across the universe, and cannot believe that "god" created only us with all this space. A space so large and beautiful that I can't imagine it. I look at the pictures Mario showed and feel nothing but awe.

I refuse to believe that such a deity would leave us so lonely. A piece of nothing amongst everything else. I also refuse to believe that he would leave us behind with so much suffering.

But what I admire about religion is their creative arts, and how it can bring people together, if used in the right way. Also, their morals aren't bad (most of them), it's just the way they go about them.

Next time I lucid dream I'm flying into space..

Originally Posted by Raspberry

I look across the universe, and cannot believe that "god" created only us with all this space. A space so large and beautiful that I can't imagine it. I look at the pictures Mario showed and feel nothing but awe.

I refuse to believe that such a deity would leave us so lonely. A piece of nothing amongst everything else. I also refuse to believe that he would leave us behind with so much suffering.

But what I admire about religion is their creative arts, and how it can bring people together, if used in the right way. Also, their morals aren't bad (most of them), it's just the way they go about them.

Next time I lucid dream I'm flying into space..

lucky

from the christian religion, i like some of their architechture and the stained glass windows in cathedrals. and many religions give interesting mythology christianity and all the others.

athiesm is a lack of belief, and since its a pretty loose definiton you dont really have too much to like that applys to all athiests.

also on flying into space, i havent done it but the night sky in my dreams is the most beautiful thing ive ever seen.

I like Satanism.
lol
*loses all his friends*

I like Satanism/Humanism because practicers do not worship Satan. They do not worship anyone. Satanism teaches that one should believe in the power that he has within himself.
I like Bhuddism because it teaches that happiness can be reached without the aid of any outside forces, influences, or objects.
I like Hinduism because of the idea of reincarnation.
I like Wiccah because of its return to nature.
I like Panentheism because I believe some of what it teaches.
I like Islam because it teaches that there are prophets, but no saviors, so nobody steals the spotlight.
I like Taoism because I believe some aspects that it teaches.
I like Scientology because the author was very creative. XD

...also there's Christianity...

Originally Posted by sloth

...also there's Christianity...

LOL

Originally Posted by Raspberry

LOL

shaddup!!!!


i wuz gonna say that