Thread: Expanding universe.

Ever heard the expression of 'throwing ideas at a wall, until something sticks'? Are you seriously making the argument, that somebody wrote down the word of God, in the form of a deluge of stories and tales, and then one and a half millennium later when we can analyse what was written, we can identify that a disappearingly small promille of these stories could perhaps be interpreted, to have a similarity to modern day discoveries, and that this proves it is truly the word of God? This is pretty much the definition of throwing stuff at a wall, and hoping something sticks.

Do you want another proof?

The quran says

"And you see the mountains as still but they are actually moving like clouds"

This tells us that the earth is rotating.

So why would god randomly tell me that the mountains are moving like clouds when I see them sitting still. That would be pretty weird.

I always did wonder why divine revelation always managed to provide ridiculously vague facts.

Instead of information on general relativity centuries before Einstein we instead get the very helpful and informative references to sweeping.

Please refute the one with the mountains

I don't know, but as Xei has pointed out, it's non sense claim. Mountains do not move like clouds. Clouds move due to winds, mountains move due to plate tectonics. Both entities move due to the rotation of the Earth and its movement through space.

edit: oh and we've been aware of the Earth's rotation for ages, the christians just decided to hide this fact during the dark ages.

But it says that I see them still but it is moving like a cloud. Have you ever seen
the earth spin?

Please refute this

Originally Posted by rchaouk2019

But it says that I see them still but it is moving like a cloud. Have you ever seen
the earth spin?

Well, mountains don't move like clouds, so I guess Allah was wrong on that one.

People believed the earth is flat in the Middle East 1400 years ago (according to my research)

Ok. Close your eyes and imagine the earth slowly spinning. Look at the clouds. Are they moving? Don't they look like clouds moving across the sky?

Originally Posted by rchaouk2019

The quran says

"And you see the mountains as still but they are actually moving like clouds"

This tells us that the earth is rotating.

Why do you keep ignoring all of the rebuttals to your previous posts? You said you'd engage with people rather than dodging them with new tangents. This was a lie. Is it because you know that you're wrong? Please explain your behaviour.

Originally Posted by rchaouk2019

People believed the earth is flat in the Middle East 1400 years ago (according to my research)

Long before that, we knew the Earth was round, and we knew that it rotated, in orbit around the sun.

I'm not please explain something specifically that you want me to explain

Originally Posted by rchaouk2019

I'm not please explain something specifically that you want me to explain

You could start with the stuff before the various question marks in the various posts above.

Originally Posted by rchaouk2019

I'm not please explain something specifically that you want me to explain

What is your opinion on my rebuttals? I've offered a lot of my time and knowledge here, but whenever I address one of your posts, you seem to just move on to the next 7-word-sentence truth. You can't lead a discussion like this.

What questions?

You are currently engaged in a "dialogue", or "conversation". This means you say something, somebody responds, you then read their response and try to understand what they're saying the best of your ability, and respond to what you think are the important points.

Your rebuttals are logical and informative but earlier i said i accidently put a new post when you put a post and i couldent responed and i apologize for that. Please state something specific u want me to explain

Originally Posted by rchaouk2019

The quran says

"And you see the mountains as still but they are actually moving like clouds"

This tells us that the earth is rotating.

Actually that sounds more like it's referring to tectonic plates smashing together and pushing mountain ranges up from under the sea. But the fact that you interpreted it to mean the earth is rotating, which I don't see at all from what's written, shows that these things can obviosuly be interpreted to mean any number of things. What good is a prediction if it's so vague it can mean just about anything?

On the first page, we dicussed the expansion of the universe. Supposedly, your god claims he is forever expanding the universe. Here are my rebuttals to those claims.

Originally Posted by Marvo

You have to consider the context of the world at that time as well. On planet Earth, we were still constantly discovering new land, different climates and animal and plant species. The people of the Middle East, ie. where the Bible and Quaran originated from, would constantly meet new people as well, who looked wildly different from themselves.
Read the very same passage again, while keeping what I've written above in mind.

Originally Posted by rchaouk

But why would god refer to earth as the heavens. That wouldent make sence

Originally Posted by Marvo

Why wouldn't it make sense? Back in those days, we really didn't know a lot about our world. When we looked to the stars, all we really saw was a dome with tiny white specks of light on it. We had no way of determining the size of our world, and for all we knew then, the world stretched on forever and ever in every direction. The very ground people stood on then, could very well be what they considered the entire universe.

I'd like for you to address my point here. It seems obvious to me, that in a world where people believe the Earth is flat, and that the sky above is just a dome with stars painted on it, that people would refer to the ground on which they stand, as the whole world, because there is apparently nothing else. And every day, they find this world just stretches on forever and ever, constantly discovering new things.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Actually that sounds more like it's referring to tectonic plates smashing together and pushing mountain ranges up from under the sea. But the fact that you interpreted it to mean the earth is rotating, which I don't see at all from what's written, shows that these things can obviosuly be interpreted to mean any number of things. What good is a prediction if it's so vague it can mean just about anything?

This was my initial reaction as well.

I know what u mean but the verse is not talking about its origin. It is saying that we humans see the mountains as still but they are moving like clouds. How could that refer to plate tectonics??

How is the rotation of the Earth like the movement of clouds? Clouds aren't a rotating sphere.

Dis thread man. ._.

Well obviously when mountains are being 'born' they're in motion, in extreme slow motion. And I suppose even afterwards, they're still in motion in some sense, just as everything is if you aim a time lapse camera at it. Mountains would very slowly change their shape as they're eroding.

But you interpreted that verse to mean the earth is rotating. This points out that it's pretty hard to tell what a vague prediction can mean, and that different people will come to different conclusions.

Besides, it's a pretty safe bet that even then people knew about erosion.

Ok close your eyes and imagine the earth spinning like i said before. How are the mountains moving

Who is the guy

Originally Posted by rchaouk2019

I know what u mean but the verse is not talking about its origin. It is saying that we humans see the mountains as still but they are moving like clouds. How could that refer to plate tectonics??

The surface of the Earth is constantly rearranging itself, albeit at a very slow pace. This is because of plate tectonics. Darkmatters and I both thought that this was what your little verse refered to.