Thread: How many frogs do you know?

Originally posted by Placebo
Not necessarily. What would happen if I suddenly changed the weather in Hong Kong today? Hundreds of more problems

Yes, necessarily. Infinite power includes infinite creative power. And therefore an infinite number of ways to solve just about any problem.

Just invent some kind of weather dampening net around Hong Kong and let the weather proceed around the world without any functional difference.

Five-second tornado on top of the boyfriend, anyone?

I've always been a big fan of lightning myself.

But in this case, I'd have to go with boils... He'd probably be much less attractive with puss-filled boils.

Besides - with infinite power, why not just cause him to have never existed, then smooth out the wrinkles caused by that later?

I've always been a big fan of lightning myself.

But in this case, I'd have to go with boils... He'd probably be much less attractive with puss-filled boils.

Besides - with infinite power, why not just cause him to have never existed, then smooth out the wrinkles caused by that later?

I'm all for spontaneous combustion.

I mean, why take him out immediately, when you can watch him run around in flames?
That way, you could keep the people guessing as to existence of the metaphysical, aiding the track toward belief in God, without stepping over the supposed "limited interference" law that seems to be apparent in Diety/Human interaction.

\"Universal Mind\" Awaken4e1, I did not change the subject. You called me a damn frog, so I truthfully pointed out that it is you who is a frog. Your evasiveness shows it. Get it?[/b]

(Where in my post did I name you, O’ though your response says a lot?)

And again, I do not think and have not said that limiting oneself is a sign of lack of power at all. It is a sign of indifference in the case you are describing. Do I need to say that again? I don't miss your answers and counters. You for the most part haven't been giving them. [/b]

(How can giving man an experiential understanding of his Creator, with all that entails be indifferent? Man must know all things to be as God his Father is, so man must know both good and evil to have a clear and concise understanding of God’s fullness.)

You just committed the same fallacy in logic that you have been committing the entire time. You are talking about musts and have to's, which signs of lack of power are. An infinitely powerful being would not HAVE TO limit himself. [/b]

(As I have stated in many of my previous replies to you, and others is you can not grasp God wonders through logic. As you have made know in this post, your walk with God changed when you began to allow your carnal mind control the conditions in which you believe in what God says, and does. The carnal mind can not comprehend spiritual things, and man walking through evil, sufferings and lack are spiritual necessities.)

That is what I am saying. If God is infinitely powerful, he has no musts and has to have. If I put a rule on myself that I can't save you from drowning because I have a plan, I can change the rule I put on myself. If I am INFINITELY POWERFUL, I can change the rule and make it where it never existed, and even make it where there is NO PROBLEM WITH DOING THAT. [/b]

(And, as I have stated again, and again, the limitations which God has placed Himself under are for man’s maturity. Man must suffer to grow beyond what his carnal nature has limited him to be, and that is why not all men follow the voice of the spirit because their carnal nature will not allow them to hear the spirit, just as yours did when you began to believe what you brain could not comprehend (doubt). You stopped believing in what your heart was telling you, and started believing what your head was telling you, sad.)

An infinitely powerful being could unlimited his limits. More importantly, he could have refrained from limiting himself in the first place. If his not doing that results in suffering, then he is indifferent. I can't believe you keep talking about rules an infinitely powerful being would have to follow. An infinitely powerful being would not have to limit himself. Got it yet? If he doesn't have to limit himself and does any way and that results in suffering, then he is indifferent to suffering. [/b]

(See, I think that this is one of the most arrogant statements I have ever read. Anyway, just as every living thing reproduces, the procedure begins the same for every living thing. There is a beginning, which consists of the most basic, and elementary components of life itself an egg and seed. So, God also must reproduce himself through the most elementary components (mankind) is the egg in which He place His seed through (Mary)
God began to make a new creation man which would not be governed by sin, evil, or suffering because He will overcome them all. As we to must overcome to be fully grown Sons of God.)

Why did God send himself to Earth, where he already was any way because he is everywhere, in the form of his son, and have his son/self tortured to temporary \"death\" when he was still living everywhere and then come back to \"life\" by going to where he had been forever? That didn't happen. It is the most illogical widely accepted concept I have ever heard of. An infinitely powerful being that is not indifferent to suffering would not create the rest of reality from scratch, laws of logic, math, physics, and everything else, and put suffering into the equation, much less his own. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. [/b]

(It is very sad to see some who claims that they where once saved, and walked with God, to revert back into a state of being, having no confidence in what they had experienced, if what they experienced was truly (salvation) which I doubt (my opinion.) The spirit once regenerated (can not revert back to being unregenerate,) so either you where only convinced in your mind you were saved, but where truly not. Or, you are truly saved and are openly rebelling against God, which I hope is not the case. It’s sad that God freely gives man the ability to receive eternal life, and walk into another realm of life, and because of the arrogance of man not being able to comprehend all the details in his head won’t receive them, because he can’t get his tiny little brain around them.)

I have asked you time and time again to counter my point that an infinitely powerful being who is not indifferent to suffering would not put suffering into his creation. You have not explained it yet. You keep talking this irrational stuff about limiting himself, which I keep explaining would involve indifference to suffering because he WOULD NOT HAVE TO limit himself. I want to believe in this thing you are talking about, but you are not helping me. All of your responses have been beside the point. You have yet to explain how limiting one self to allow suffering when one does not have to is not an act of indifference to suffering. If you are drowning, and I limit myself from saving you when I don't have to, how in the world is that not an act of indifference? [/b]

(And again I have stated over, and over again If God don’t chasten you for your disobedience (from straying from the path of righteousness) then you are a bastard child, and none of His. Suffering is ‘the processes’ which God uses to mature mankind into perfection. As a smith purifies gold in the fire, so also is man to be purified in the fire of sufferings. Just, as Jesus did. And, ‘I know you will come back again and state the same tried dead statements again saying if God is God then He would not have limits on Himself?’ But, He must limit Himself to bring mankind unto perfection. It is an act of love, to grow His Sons into a mature spiritual man. The only problem we have here is you’re inability to accept that God makes mankind suffer for a reason, and you can’t see the reason.)

Also, don't tell me that I have not accepted Jesus as my savior and that's why I don't understand. I did accept Jesus as my savior, when I was 12. I had been a Christian since early childhood, but I decided, when I did not have to, to go through with a formal baptism when I was 12. I fully believed in what I was doing and seeked to do it. I felt feelings that I at the time believed to be the love and holiness of God. I said \"The Lord's Prayer\" and sang \"Come into My Heart\" in my head every single night before I went to sleep. I was a full blown holy roller. I even got ragged by my friends for being so extremely religious. When I was 16, I started really THINKING, and the concept didn't make sense to me any more when I started doing that. Ever since then (I am 33 now.), [/b]

(What you have stated here is true, you have started ‘thinking,’ and you have stopped believing. Just, as Eve did in the Garden. So in that state you are condemned to wrestle with your own mind until death or until you believe by faith again. You’re choice.)

I have tried and tried to get Christians to fully explain to me how the idea makes sense, and it has not happened yet. So I ask you again, please fully explain to me how what you are talking about makes sense, considering the very specific logical disagreements I have with it. Thanks. [/b]

(I have explained it over 10 times now but you still can’t wrap your brain around it, because it is spiritually discerned.)

(Here it is again so pay attention:

God placed man under vanity, (suffering) so that man would grow beyond the natural physical realm, and partake of the spiritual, which he can not attain unless the natural mind is ‘TURNED OFF’ which is what you can not to do in your present state of mind, if you had ever done it before being saved (i.e. applying faith) in His Word.)

(For only His Word through the guidance of the Holy Spirit can teach you the truth of ‘all things.’ Then and only then will you relinquish this perpetual feed-back loop argument.)

The Rev.

As I have stated in many of my previous replies to you, and others is you can not grasp God wonders through logic.[/b]

In other words, if you don't allow yourself to be brainwashed then there is no way to know God.

The carnal mind can not comprehend spiritual things,...[/b]

You mean the sensible mind.

You stopped believing in what your heart was telling you, and started believing what your head was telling you, sad[/b]

This always crack me up, when I hear someone associate the heart with feelings. The heart pumps blood through the body and the brain does the thinking...period.

(It is very sad to see some who claims that they where once saved, and walked with God, to revert back into a state of being, having no confidence in what they had experienced, if what they experienced was truly (salvation) which I doubt (my opinion.)[/b]

I was also raised in a Christian environment, attended a private Christian school up to the 8th grade and my father is a born-again Christian minister. However, even after all of that I still find it preposterous that anyone can buy into the Christian mythos. And I think it's very arrogant of you \"Rev\" to assume that just because we were able to escape the bonds of Christian brainwashing, that we are somehow lesser.

It’s sad that God freely gives man the ability to receive eternal life, and walk into another realm of life, and because of the arrogance of man not being able to comprehend all the details in his head won’t receive them, because he can’t get his tiny little brain around them.[/b]

Your right, your God is sad...at least we found something to agree on.

Suffering is ‘the processes’ which God uses to mature mankind into perfection.[/b]

You mean to tell me that God couldn't just create us perfect from the start? He is omnipotent right? Or does he enjoy watching his creation endure suffering?

The only problem we have here is you’re inability to accept that God makes mankind suffer for a reason, and you can’t see the reason.[/b]

LOL...that line is as old as Moses. I always get a laugh when theists revert to the whole \"You can't know, because you don't understand.\" Which translates too, \"If you don't believe what I'm preaching, then your too stupid.\"

God placed man under vanity, (suffering) so that man would grow beyond the natural physical realm, and partake of the spiritual, which he can not attain unless the natural mind is ‘TURNED OFF’ which is what you can not to do in your present state of mind, if you had ever done it before being saved (i.e. applying faith) in His Word.[/b]

Finally, admittance that it IS brainwashing! Yeah, just stop thinking for yourself and everything will be alright. Sad.

As much as I appreciate the (assumed) intent behind your posts, Rev., each of ITM's above counters are valid points (in my opinion, of course.) I'm not particularly siding with the "God is Sad" statement, which he is intitled to, but all of the others, especially on the level of 'giving in to brainwashing' seem completely accurate when you think about it. Anyone with the power to broadcast could twist a message around to say "God wants you to do this. Don't ask why. Don't wonder why. If you are not willing to follow "God's Word" (meaning whatever it is the speaker is trying to Convince you is God's word) then you are not spiritually able to perceive the essence of God. Given the debatable foundation of the "Word of God as translated through the words of man," would you not think it a little naive and/or dangerous to not at least Question this type of "don't ask, just obey" policy as brainwashing?
It is the same in things like Gangsta-Rap, and its trojaning itself into "Hip Hop" culture, which is fundamentally a Positive and Artistic side of the moon, simply to get more people listening to its Material and degenerative side (gangster rap) and preaching false values that serve as nothing but a way to attain a larger and more perceptually corralled audience.
Whether or not you agree is up to you, but to at least not even Question it. To take in whatever religion you were brought up in, completely overshoot the inconsistencies and adhere to the "I am delievering you the pathway to God. Do not question me or you shall never receive his light" form of religious manufacturing is putting all of your eggs into one very old, worn out, and apparently unravelling basket.
I mean, to Believe in a creator is one thing. I, myself lean more toward the idea of a creator than of the universe being born of chaos. That's just me, and I welcome all opposing viewpoints, however I don't think that God, the Word of God, or even the Essence of God will ever be found through the medium of man to a point which extends beyond "We think God exists, and you should to." I have no problem with that. It is the translating of what God necessarily wants from each and every one of us in order TO receive him that I question, and am pretty skeptical of when someone tries to advocate it. All religions generally have one thing in common: The believe that the universe was created willfully. They, however, differ in so many ways after branching out from that very possible truth, and I think to follow anyone one of the humanized religions while disregarding the others is taking a leap of faith into a carefully placed, monitored, and often upgraded bear trap.

(Don't have time to go back and check for mistakes, so I'm posting as is.)

"Reverend", you said that your idea of God cannot be understood through logic. I agree. It is not a logical concept. I have been saying that the whole time. Your points are not logical. How many times did you use the word "must" in your posts? Remember, you are talking about a being you claim is infinitely powerful. If you throw the word "must" in with that, then you are contradicting yourself. If you talk like that and then claim that logic is irrelevant, then you lost this debate in terms of logic. You have made good sense only in your delusional mind.

When I was "saved", I believed it completely. I felt strong emotions, and I was a major believer. But later, I saw the illogic of the concept. That is what psychotic people do when they get well and realize the absurdity of their delusions. A psychotic person might "feel" very strongly that 2 + 2 = 5. He might have powerful experiences around the notion and "feel" in his "heart" that it is absolute reality. Still, the idea is illogical, and therefore false.

Since you keep wanting to make this personal (un-Christian) by calling me things like "arrorgant", then I should ask you to look in the mirror. Do you remember referring to my brain as "tiny"? Do you remember your use of the word "sad"? Do you know how many times you have said in effect that you understand God because you are somehow above me? I hope those delusions of yours can be put in perspective for you by the fact that you have absolutely sucked in this debate. You are also not going to win over any converts by being an illogical, evasive, insulting jackass. Good luck.

One more thing... Tell me just how righteous you think this hypothetical character is...

Originally posted by Universal Mind
I saw a news report about a man who knew how to swim and sat there and watched his two year old son drown in his swimming pool after he left his son by the pool. The man went on trial for criminal negligence. However, he pled that he was unable to save his son from drowning because he deliberately limited himself from doing it. He stated that his son would learn more from drowning, but also said that he could have created far more humane learning methods. He admitted that he could have unlimited himself from the limitation, but stressed the important point that he did limit himself from doing it. The man did report that he limited himself from unlimiting himself, although he could have unlimited himself from limiting himself from unlimiting himself. The prosecution argued that this is a sign of indifference, but the man said that it was not indifference because he could not save his son because he was limited, reiterating that he deliberately limited himself and limited himself from unlimiting himself. He was found not guilty and continued to be idolized by hundreds of millions.

"InTheMoment"

In other words, if you don't allow yourself to be brainwashed then there is no way to know God. .

(Brainwashing by definition is the implementing of an untruth into the mind-set of some one who is unwilling to give it up on their own. No one is forced into salvation, it is a gift, it must be received freely.)

(1: a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas)

The carnal mind can not comprehend spiritual things
You mean the sensible mind.

(a bodily desire or pleasure but commonly implies sexual appetite with absence of the spiritual or intellectual.)

This always crack me up, when I hear someone associate the heart with feelings. The heart pumps blood through the body and the brain does the thinking...period.

(Again a limited understanding of syntax, The heart is the spirit of the man, i.e. his center, heart, duh?)

I was also raised in a Christian environment, attended a private Christian school up to the 8th grade and my father is a born-again Christian minister. However, even after all of that I still find it preposterous that anyone can buy into the Christian mythos. And I think it's very arrogant of you \"Rev\" to assume that just because we were able to escape the bonds of Christian brainwashing, that we are somehow lesser. *

(Not at all is it you who has lessened, yourself, not I. No one is able to convince another by force.)

Your right, your God is sad...at least we found something to agree on.

If He is saddened, it is because His creation is still in its infinitesimal stage despite His drawing.)

You mean to tell me that God couldn't just create us perfect from the start? He is omnipotent right? Or does he enjoy watching his creation endure suffering?

No father enjoys it when His Sons are chastened, but it is necessary. And you just can’t handle that.[/quote]

LOL...that line is as old as Moses. I always get a laugh when theists revert to the whole \"You can't know, because you don't understand.\" This translates too, “If you don’t believe what I’m preaching, then you’re just too stupid.\"

(From you’re lips to God’s ears)

Finally, admittance that it IS brainwashing! Yeah, just stop thinking for yourself and everything will be alright. Sad.

(The mind which you are thinking with is a unstable mind, it is at war with everything unknown to its limited grasp, judging everything either good, or evil.)

(Jam 1:8 a two-souled man is unstable in all his ways.)

(2Pe 3:16 as also in all the epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, among which things are certain hard to be understood, which the untaught and unstable do wrest, as also the other Writings, unto their own destruction.)

The Rev.

"Universal Mind"

Since you want to make this personal (un-Christian) by calling me things like \"arrogant\", then I should ask you to look in the mirror. *Do you remember referring to my brain as \"tiny\"?[/b]

Please read what it written, and not what you think is written…

("because of the arrogance of man not being able to comprehend all the details in his head won’t receive them, because he can’t get his (man’s) tiny little brain around them.")

P.S. I have not insulted any one personally...Please read the text, and do not add that which is not there...
The Rev.

Originally posted by Awaken4e1
\"Universal Mind\"

Since you want to make this personal (un-Christian) by calling me things like \"arrogant\", then I should ask you to look in the mirror. *Do you remember referring to my brain as \"tiny\"?

Please read what it written, and not what you think is written…

(\"because of the arrogance of man not being able to comprehend all the details in his head won’t receive them, because he can’t get his (man’s) tiny little brain around them.\")

P.S. I have not insulted any one personally...Please read the text, and do not add that which is not there...
The Rev.[/b]

I am a man and my brain is not getting around the supposed details you referred to just then. What you said was said to me and about my lack of Christian belief. Please stop lying. Thanks.

Again, what is your analysis of my hypothetical about the man who watched his son drown? If you missed it the second time also, it is quoted at the bottom of my previous post in this thread.

(Brainwashing by definition is the implementing of an untruth into the mind-set of some one who is unwilling to give it up on their own. No one is forced into salvation, it is a gift, it must be received freely.) [/b]

Spoken like a true brainwasher. I'll try using that the next time I'm on the prowl...

Me: Hey sexy, how about you baptize my penis with your mouth?
Random Chick: Are you trying to force yourself upon me!
Me: Umm...No not at all, my penis is a gift and it must be received freely.
Random Chick: <slap>

(a bodily desire or pleasure but commonly implies sexual appetite with absence of the spiritual or intellectual.) [/b]

Spiritual and intellectual should never be in the same sentence, unless your comparing opposites.

(Again a limited understanding of syntax, The heart is the spirit of the man, i.e. his center, heart, duh?) [/b]

No, the heart is located in the chest between the lungs, behind and slightly to the left of the sternum. Please take an anatomy class before you start preaching.

If He is saddened, it is because His creation is still in its infinitesimal stage despite His drawing.[/b]

Sounds like God is not omniartistic.

No father enjoys it when His Sons are chastened, but it is necessary. And you just can’t handle that.[/b]

I think it's YOU that can't handle having your weak belief system challenged. You've already dismissed logic over faith in another thread. I have nothing but pity for you and your mental illness.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

Quote: *
LOL...that line is as old as Moses. I always get a laugh when theists revert to the whole \"You can't know, because you don't understand.\" This translates too, “If you don’t believe what I’m preaching, then you’re just too stupid.\" *[/b]

(From you’re lips to God’s ears) [/b][/quote]
(Out of the mouth of babes)

(The mind which you are thinking with is a unstable mind, it is at war with everything unknown to its limited grasp, judging everything either good, or evil.) [/b]

The mind which you are using with extreme daftness is at war with reality. Anyone that buys into the Christian mythos is obviously mentally challenged and is in need of serious help. Please refrain from trying to spread your condition to others, for the sake of humanity, I beg thee.

Originally posted by InTheMoment


Hey sexy, how about you baptize my penis with your mouth?

my penis is a gift

I wonder what my batting average could be with those pick up lines. They should at least be used in a porno movie, just before they take their clothes off after knowing each other for two minutes.

How would you fair with the "My penis is a gift" line?

"[SHNAP! (The sound of my scalpel-sharp 5" Cold Steel Tanto CQC tactical folder opening)]

Cool, then I'll just take it with me."

To which I'm sure you'd respond:

" "

Originally posted by kimpossible
How would you fair with the \"My penis is a gift\" line?

\"[SHNAP! (The sound of my scalpel-sharp 5\" Cold Steel Tanto CQC tactical folder opening)]

Cool, then I'll just take it with me.\"

To which I'm sure you'd respond:

\" * * * * \"

If I were ignorant trash enough to actually use that line in a bar, I would respond to you by saying, "Put that down, baby. The rest of me comes free with the free gift. That scapel is for cutting my steak before the gift opening. Hurry up!" Then we would very passionately watch wrestling.

double post ....oops

I'm assuming that double post was an accident?