Thread: "God's worried about you"

Originally posted by Tsen

7:00 AM Sunday morning two months ago, I was awakened by three young men and one young woman pulling me by the legs out of bed. They told me they were here to make sure I went to church, and I told them very clearly that \"I won't f*cking go to any f*cking church that drags me out of bed at 7:00 in the damned morning to go to a meeting I don't want to be at!\"

Wow, that would really piss me off. If anyone ever tried that on me, I assure you they would be lucky to leave my house on a stretcher (as opposed to leaving in a body bag).

Originally posted by Tsen+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tsen)</div>

Still, things haven't improved. After a week out of the church, I decided that 'agnostic' didn't cut it, and decided I was an atheist. At that point, my mom flipped. Here I am, a few weeks later. My parents have officially disowned me. As soon as I graduate this May, I'm being kicked out of the house. I'm planning on moving in with a friend in Salt Lake for a few months before going to college in Provo, a ways north of there. College happens to be another way my parents are punishing me. My dad, who had been offering to pay for my college all the way up to a Bachelor's degree, has now withdrawn that offer. It isn't too bad, since the local colleges are really cheap compared to Eastern US colleges, but it'll still cost me about $8,000 a year for tuition, dorms and books. I'll have a few scholarships, thanks to my 35 on the ACT (retaking it in a month or two to try for a 36), but I'll still have to pay for food and such on my own, along with a significant portion of the tuition. Also, my parents have stopped me from getting my driver's license. It used to be a family rule that once you got your Eagle Scout award, you got your license, but no sooner. Now that I've left the church, they've decided that I'll have to wait until I'm 18 and can sign for myself to get my license. At that point, I'll be buying my own car and paying for insurance on my own. This gets tacked on to the living expenses that I've just had thrust upon me.

Now, these 'punishments' aren't too bad. My mom also takes away the modem so I can't get online on Sundays, but I've got my own modem upstairs for the new computer I'm getting this month, so it's no biggie. Anyway, this all is legal. My parents aren't required to do any of the above, and I honestly wouldn't blame them for it, except for their reasoning. They aren't doing it because they want me to become an independant person, or because they can't afford it, they're doing it because they want to punish me for not sharing their religion. THAT is morally wrong. The Mormon church itself even preaches that you should give people that aren't religious, or aren't of the same religion, the same things you'd give somebody that was! Human ethics say that you shouldn't deprive somebody for different beliefs! But they still do it.
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Sheesh! That's harsh. Good to see you're taking it so well, though. This is my favorite tactic for when punishment is thrust upon me: don't let it affect you. Pisses people off so much, it's great.
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It gets worse, too-- the other day, I was on a website about \"What if Superman lived in Russia?\" It was this whole comic book about a Communist Superman, and it was HILARIOUS. My mom walked down and saw the page, and asked, \"Are you communist?\"
Didn't take long for me to respond. \"No, Communism is an attempt to make a perfect system work with imperfect components. Marxism-Leninism is worse, it's just a dressed up totalitarian government that proclaims to be Socialist. But while we're talking, I might as well inform you that Jesus was a Communist.\" My mom challenged that, and I obliged her. \"Jesus emphasized giving all you had to the church, which would redistribute it to every man according to their needs. That's the basic Communist principle, right there, and it's a very nice system, provided everybody's perfectly unselfish. But man IS selfish, so pure Communism won't work on THIS world. That's why I'M not Communist. But you are. In fact, the Mormon church preaches an ideal called 'The Law of Consecration', wherein all the saints give up their land and possessions to the church, and the church purchases food with their money, distributes it to all the people according to their needs, and gives everybody ample land and home space to live in. Didn't work when they tried it back in the 1800's, either. That's why you reverted to the 10% tithing: Communism doesnt' work. But you still preach it at church. And now you're trying to condemn me for being something that I'm NOT, but you ARE.\" She didn't say anything, but I overheard her telling my dad that I'm corrupted and a hopeless child, as well as a communist, a pill-popper and an anarchist. She seems to think I'm the antichrist personally. And yet my character hasn't changed since I left the church at all, only my beliefs.

Sorry, but I had to laugh at the \"communist, a pill-popper and an anarchist\" part. Seriously, though, you totally Pwnt -- with a capital P -- your mom on that one.

Originally posted by Tsen

And all throughout the process, my mom keeps telling me that \"God's worried about you\" and \"God wants you back in his church.\" The people at school tell me \"We miss you at church\" and \"The Bishop really wants to see you\". I just flip them off.

Ahahaha. Good show. It's funny how their relentless attempts to get you to come back are only pushing you further away. You might want to remind them that their tactics are not only ineffective in getting you to come back, but also creating a strong contempt for them.

Thanks for the support.

Yeah, it gets a bit annoying at times, and I've told my mom that she's just pushing me further away, but I guess I haven't really told anybody else that. Leastwise, not screamed it in their face; I mean, they're pretty blind not to notice how much it annoys me.

On the plus side: They haven't tried to drag me out of bed in the morning again.

And I've burned a copy of the Simpson's episode when Lisa goes Buddhist for my parents. Just so they get the message. Hopefully...

Oh, and my mom thinks I'm manic-depressed as well. She tried to talk my doctor into putting me on Zoloft, but he sided with me and refused to give the perscription since he said I was perfectly fine. I'm honestly unsure where she got this one; I've never been super depressed in my life. I had a bit of depression in 7th and 8th grade, but that was the normal teenager type of thing, not to mention that it ended more than four years ago. And even when I was in the deepest part of that I was still a happy and outgoing person...Hrm. Mebbe she's just paranoid. Most likely.

Originally posted by Tsen

7:00 AM Sunday morning two months ago, I was awakened by three young men and one young woman pulling me by the legs out of bed. They told me they were here to make sure I went to church, and I told them very clearly that \"I won't f*cking go to any f*cking church that drags me out of bed at 7:00 in the damned morning to go to a meeting I don't want to be at!\"

My initial reaction would be to just quickly snap their necks - and then go back to sleep. Clean up the mess after 10am...

Fortunately, Thor! likes to sleep late on Sunday too. So he'd just rip one of their legs off and beat them to death with it. I wouldn't have to be troubled with putting them down.

Sorry to hear you were dragged out of bed at 7:00am. That's lousy.

Originally posted by Tsen
And I've burned a copy of the Simpson's episode when Lisa goes Buddhist

That's getting hardcore. I can imagine it would be difficult living with parents like the flanders.

Originally posted by Tsen!+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tsen!)</div>

Thanks for the support.
...She tried to talk my doctor into putting me on Zoloft, but he sided with me and refused to give the perscription since he said I was perfectly fine...[/b]

Now they're trying to drug you, too?
Keep fighting the good fight. They may take your internet connection, but they'll never take -- your freedom!
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...Fortunately, Thor! likes to sleep late on Sunday too. So he'd just rip one of their legs off and beat them to death with it. I wouldn't have to be troubled with putting them down.

Now there's a god who gets things done. From now on, I'm going to start spelling my name with an exclaimation mark, too.

You have to understand JRTs (where the "T" stands for "Terrorist") to understand that they _really_ need an exclamation point built right into their name...

He doesn't like Squirrels either. . .

Owch, rough time there, Tsen. I also would have probably dealt with them in a less-than-humane manner.

Holy shit ,Tsen!
I don't even know what to say. It's ridiculous. Your honesty in the telling and your
rational and intelligent behavior in the face of such bullshit is quite commendable
though.
It's a shame that your folks are making such a horrible mistake; in the name of
religion of all things. Keep your head up , man. You can always count on us to vent to.

PS. If things get really bad PM me and I'll come talk to your parents with some of my
pill popping ,anarchist, communist friends. We'll all sit down and watch " Children
of the Corn" together. We would be happy to drag all your "friends" out of bed as well.
Maybe I'll take them to see Slipknot

Originally posted by Black Mage
I think it was what alcoholics call an \"epiphany\"

Just had to get it out of my system, but now that I have, I'm feeling a lot better. Anyway, important part is I'm all fixed and whatnot now. Did blow up on my mom yesterday, though...she started bashing DV again. Something about it being a rat's den of druggies and apocylyptical nutjobs. Didn't really stay cool and logical that time. I kinda started yelling, and I don't remember all that I yelled, but there was a lot about her being intrusive and cynical (mostly cynical), and some that probably didn't make sense and had no application, and I wound up leaving the house until that night. I'm a bit more cooled down now, but I don't know about my mom. She won't be back until late tonight, so if I'm lucky I'll be long asleep before she gets here. Really don't want to deal with this right now.

Though, like I said, I hardly think it's admirable that I followed the herd of sheep off the cliff for that long...Bit dissapointed with myself on that count. And I certainly didn't feel like I was rational and intelligent when I was in the heat of it all.

>> Something about it being a rat's den of druggies and apocylyptical nutjobs.

Funny thing is - I largely agree with her.

Y'know, you have a point. It's just that DV is my home forum, and to be honest, it's one topic where I don't give a damn about being rational. I like it. If she doesn't, I probably won't like her overly much.

Originally posted by Tsen
They aren't doing it because they want me to become an independant person, or because they can't afford it, they're doing it because they want to punish me for not sharing their religion. THAT is morally wrong.

It's a crime against your humanity.


Tsen's Mom and Dad, if you're reading this, I'd like to confide with you something I know about Tsen. He's HUMAN.

Find hella convincing arguments against monotheism and make them speechless. It would buy you some time to get them off your ass for a while. But in the long run, all the time used for fighting could be used for somethin better.

Kinda stupid how they accuse you of doin meth and want to put you on an antidepressant. I'm not against it, but the hole in their argument is flawful.

Sounds like a scary environment, to be persecuted so much for not believing. The really stupid is that religious people used to require pity for being prosecuted for being believers, but in this age, they really are quite the tyrants against everyone else.

The Soul-for-Sale description is a very good insight for me. Atheism is a firmer stance, at least when you tell people what you are.

My dad used to be a bit of an outcast in his familiy asswell becouse he did not blindly follow what the church said.

I am so thankfull he did, now I have grown up with an oppinion of my own.

It's really an achievement that you have the guts to stand up to this brainwashing stuff, and that you have not stopped thinking, not have just accepted all the spam the chuch and parents gave you.

I give you my ' <3's'

<3<3<3

(Respeckt <3)

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What happend to the dude spamming about how right god and religion is NOW, huh?

You know - you gotta wonder: If god was really all that worried about you - wouldn't he stop by and tell you himself? Seems kinda indifferent to me...

Originally posted by kimpossible
You know - you gotta wonder: If god was really all that worried about you - wouldn't he stop by and tell you himself? Seems kinda indifferent to me...

He does. It's your problem that you're not listening.

Makes you feel good, doesn't it? Knowing that it's always your fault.

Really...

It's all your fault, Mu!

Infinite power and happiness awaits you with God but it's your fault for not seeing him.

Isn't that liberating?

Tsen,

Having come from your almost exact background, let me give some advice on the matter.

What you do is back off from the Church thing for a while, but don't smart mouth your parents. Just take it real easy. Hit Church every now and then for a baby blessing or Christmas just to let them know you're still part of the team.

But start looking out for a full-time job somewhere. Doesn't really matter how much they pay and when you find one, and a non-mormon place where you can bunk down, just move out. It'll be a painful moment for both you and your family, but its your call so stay firm.

Then spend the next 2 or 3 years living it up. Go to work everyday. Make non-member friends, stay away from both your parents and the Church completely. Smoke a little weed just to try it out, get wasted every now and then, experience life and try out the things your friends are trying.

Watch out for the chicks though. I'm not saying don't have sex, but don't do something real stupid like get an STD. That really screws up your life. Go out of you way to make some really good female friends, and if you find or don't find a girlfriend, its all good.

The trick to this strategy is to completely forget about your family. Time will quickly pass if you do this. After 2 or 3 years, you're family will get the picture that you're serious about retaining your jack-mormon status and they'll start to make overtures in your direction.

This is the point where you broker a deal with them for school. This is the deal you make: I'll go to church if you pay for college. They'll take it in a heartbeat.

So you go to church (you'll be 20 by this time so you'll skip that akward "Why aren't you on a mission?" stage) on campus and the hotties will dig you, trust me. The varnish quickly rubs off the Mormon chicks when they hit about 21 and figure they're over-the-hill and won't care at all if you're an RM or not. Silly but true.

Yeah, man, get a job and a place, party with your friends for a few years, and then bang, you'll be in college everything paid, parents will be cool with you (though you will still be the black sheep), meeting nice, clean chicks every Sunday, and you won't have to be Mormon.

Piece of cake, Tsen.

Oh Then, I cant even begin to imminge what your going through. It sounds like something out of a bad religious film. I am an atheist, I really have been ever since I was a little kid... And one I have ever known made a big deal over it, no one cares what religion you really are around here... Would get out of where you are living. Its inhumane. Come over to New England, we are not really religious.

Tsen,

congratulations on breaking free.

Unfortunately this path is difficult.

Your family and church won't want to think for themselves, and can't understand someone who questions them. They will interpret it as a symptom of a problem in you.

Don't waste your energy on trying to explain your reasoning to the 'faithful'. Try and stay civil with your family. This will indirectly show that you don't "have a problem".

I recommend finishing high school then moving out of state. Its a big change, but best chance to keep growing, rather than compromising, or getting bribed.

Keep thinking!

Thanks for the advice everybody. Honestly, I'm happy with my current plan:

For the moment, I can't move out. I'm still in high school and badly in need of money, so moving in somewhere else would be difficult for the moment.
Instead, I plan on staying in Utah to finish up High School, then head to Utah State University. It's still in-state, but it's up in Provo, which is quite a ways away from here. I could still visit home whenever, but it's far enough out of the way that I won't have to deal with family on a daily basis. As soon as I get my four years in there, I'm heading to the East Coast to work on my graduate's and look for work. I've got a few friends at USU now who're living in one of their parent's condos, and they've got extra space. I'll probably move in with them for a while, since they won't bother with rent, so I'll only have to pay for books and tuition. I should be able to keep up with most of the cost of school, like I said, Utah schools are cheap.

Just as an update, things calmed down a bit overall, but spiked near Christmas. I got too many Christmas cards to read from the kids at my church, most of which were trying to drag me back again, and I was invited to at least ten Christmas parties, none of which I attended. I sent them a reply explaining why I'd left and why I wouldn't be coming back anytime soon, since I was sort of beginning to calm down and I felt I at least owed them an explanation. They haven't really said anything back, but at least they haven't bothered me since then. My seminary teacher, who still insisted on calling every other week, won't be bothering me anymore soon, since I finally transfer out of his class in a few weeks when the semester changes. I've still got some close friends who're upset with me about leaving, but I'm trying to talk to them. One in particular is hard to talk to, since she just joined the church a little while back, and it was a very positive change in her life. I don't really want to make her feel that I disagree with her being in the church, because I don't.

Anyway, thanks again.

By the way, Sokar, I appreciated your comments, but I don't think I'll be taking that course of action. I know my parents are upset with me leaving the church, but that hardly is motive for me to come back to it, especially if it's just a sort of bartering for my tuition. I've always been a sort of idealistic person in some regards, and this is one. I'm not about to let them stomp all over me again by going back to a church I don't believe in, regardless of reasons.

hey tsen,
i just noticed that i must be the last one to see your original post, as this thread hasn't been posted to since the end of december. still, i thought i'd say a few words.

i grew up mormon and left the church too, so i know a little of what you're going through, although it sounds like you have it a hell of a lot harder than i did when i left. anyway, i think you've got a pretty good plan. (btw, USU is in Logan, not Provo

i don't know if you're at all interested in something like this or not, but i want to tell you a little about this group i went to last saturday. it's called the St. Chad's Society. it's basically a support group for ex-mormons. it was started by Rev. W. Lee Shaw, who grew up mormon, went on a mission, married in the temple, and eventually left the church and became an Episcopalian priest. i've been to two meetings with this group. the first one was when Rev. Shaw came up to Logan to set up a chapter up there. at this meeting, all we really had time to do was everybody go and tell their story of leaving, how it's affected them, what's happened afterwards, etc. the other meeting i went to, last saturday, we talked about, among other things, what we like and don't like in religions in general. we discussed an idea from Ludwig Wittgenstein, who said that the point of philosophy is to "show the fly the way out of the bottle." so we took that metaphor and compared us to the flies, and religions to the bottle, and talked about leaving the "bottle" of mormonism, whether or not to find another "bottle," etc. it was pretty interesting. the group is organized by the Episcopalian church, and the structure of the meetings is somewhat religious, in that it opens and closes with a prayer and maybe a thought or a scripture, but the Episcopalians are very easy-going people. they will accept you and won't care if you're atheist, agnostic, or anything. anyway, like i said, i don't know if you're at all interested in something like this, but if so, there might already be a St. Chad chapter in your local area. the way to find out would be to contact a local Episcopal church. if there's not, and you're interested in it, i might be able to get you contact info for Rev. Shaw and maybe he will come up to your area and organize a chapter. or if not, you can at least talk to him, and maybe attend some meetings in Salt Lake or something. anyway, just let me know and i'll do what i can to help you. it sucks leaving behind a way of life that you have held for all your life, especially in the culture that you/we live in. i hope you can get through it without ruining your relationship with your parents and friends.

p.s. in your original post, you said something about 60% of the girls not being interested in you if you're not an RM. believe me—you don't want to date that 60% anyway. they may be hot, but it's just not worth it. don't worry, one day, you'll find yourself a nice heathen girl.

Yeah, my friend told me I'd messed up the Logan/Provo thing too, but I was too lazy to fix it.

And you're right about not wanting to date the 60%. I was hanging out with one, and thought that we were pretty good friends, then she found out I was an atheist and nearly lynched me on the spot. And usually I don't find girls who'd like to lynch me attractive.