Thread: Showdown Commentary

Boohoo, I miss out on the fun.

I think you'll want to define some terms before this starts. For example: what counts as 'factually correct' - differing definitions of this would allow both of you to both be right.

Anyway good luck.

I'm not sure what I expect. For it to peter out, a lot of tongue wagging or a cataclysmic explosion. Whatever the case, I bet you $5 nothing good comes out of it (hey, it's religious 'debate', and if you only learn one thing from this forum, it's that people aren't going to even consider changing their views in the face of argument).

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

and if you only learn one thing from this forum, it's that people aren't going to even consider changing their views in the face of argument).
[/b]

Wasn't tsen a mormon when he joined this forum? Or maybe I'm making things up

Yeah, I left the Mormon church last September.

Also, I was an agnostic before I joined this forum.

I was Christian before I joined this forum.

This forum turn me into a skeptic of everything.

This is going to be really interesting. I have had a very hard time getting Keeper to clear things up for me, but maybe the organized format of the duel will increase the chances that Keeper will stop dodging points and questions. Maybe! To be realistic, though, I will be majorly surprised if Keeper ever comes to this forum again. I think he has 100 times the amount of doubt he had before he came here. I know what that's like. I was a Christian until I started trying to argue with atheists. Changing my views on religion was the only thing that blew my mind more than finding out there is no Santa Claus. I remember the exact moment I went from Christian to agnostic, but very close to atheist. I was 16 years old and eating supper at a restaurant in the Square in Oxford, Mississippi. My father and I had been arguing for a long time about the existence of God. I repeatedly made the point that the world we have could not have happened by itself. My father kept asking me how God could have, and I would respond with, "He has always been." My father ended up responding to that with, "Maybe the universe has always been." I did not know how to respond to that. My belief in God vanished at that exact moment, but it had been on its way out for a few months. I became a full blown atheist 4 1/2 years later.

As much as I love to debate religion, the idea that I might have had something to do with making somebody stop believing in eternal life kind of bothers me. That is one reason I only argue religion in places where all participants have signed up for it. Then again, becoming an atheist takes away your belief in eternal Hell. I never try to call Christians out in conversations if they have not shown a strong indication that they are asking for debate. I also won't do it if unwilling participants are listening. Ice Dawg's system of making people literally sign up to even read anything in this forum has kept my conscience pretty clear. However, watching Keeper suddenly slam into the walls of logic in a religious debate has messed with my head on some level. But I also consider the fact that he stuck his neck out and boasted that he could prove that science and Christianity do not contradict each other. Because of that, I am looking very forward to the showdown.

If he can do that, he'll be a God among man. Why? Because the Church flat our rejects Science. They don't believe in Evolution, in the science behind Homosexuality, ect.

I think I'll play in this game too if that is alrite with you? I'm a neutral party though. Im for both religion and science, so I'll likely be playing Devil's Advocate. If not, then I'll just send my points through PM

Originally Posted by ExoByte

If he can do that, he'll be a God among man. Why? Because the Church flat our rejects Science. They don't believe in Evolution, in the science behind Homosexuality, ect.

I think I'll play in this game too if that is alrite with you? I'm a neutral party though. Im for both religion and science, so I'll likely be playing Devil's Advocate. If not, then I'll just send my points through PM
[/b]

Hmmm... They would probably want you to wait until the sequel to join in. We have been trying to get Keeper to communicate, and he has not been doing it. The fewer people there are in the debate, the more likely Keeper will do his best to argue for the existence of the Christian God. I think a lot of people want to see what he does in that situation.

I respect Keeper. Hes stubborn, persistent and dedicated. Also quite smart. Unfortunatly I don't think he words things the way he wants to, and he can understand it but we can't. For all we know everything hes said is right but there is just a broken communication bridge.

Personally, I believe in God but also believe in the possibility that he might not exist. I dont believe in Christianity, and I do believe in science. Keeper makes some good arguments, but I also think he fails to realize that the Church are an organization, and in such can be manipulative bastards.

Well, right now we're trying to keep things down to more or less just me and Keeper in the argument. Feel free to PM any points of debate you have to him, I'm sure he could use them. Similarly, if anybody has any points they'd like to make on the atheist side of things, feel free to PM them to me.
Participation is open, I just ask that you keep any input in either PMs or posts in this forum.

Yeah, I left the Mormon church last September.[/b]

I was Christian before I joined this forum.[/b]

Also, I was an agnostic before I joined this forum.[/b]

Shut up. Shut up! But you're not wrong. I'd take back what I said (and eat my hat) if I didn't consider all of you very level headed in the first place. Maybe the unstable people are those that turn to religion for comfort in the first instance and also, coincidentally, become the most dogmatic believers. Well, it would be nice if everything could be summed up like that.

I think that's probably about it. But to be fair, some of them just have SHC.

I am looking forward to it

Ye I think the debate should be kept to only 2 participtants so we can have some form of defintion and clarity.
However, I dont think Keeper is the man to argue the atheist point. Maybe he has good ideas but he cannot word them correctly
Ne-Yo would probably be a btter choice.
Anyway, anybody who wants to help with the atheist perspective pm Tsen, as I think hes quite capable of presenting everyones views =D
The best thing that couyld come out of this debate, is Keeper's realization that he is clinging to 600 pages of pure innacuraccies.
Imran

Originally Posted by imran_p

The best thing that couyld come out of this debate, is Keeper's realization that he is clinging to 600 pages of pure innacuraccies.
[/b]

I think he got there a few weeks ago.

Yes, I'm very interested to see how this unfolds, as well. I've decided that despite all the nonsense Keeper has spewed all over the forums, I'm going to just forget it all and give him another shot. I really would like to see him do a good job.

So would I, but to make this an itellectual debate, rather than an intellectual execution
I suggest Ne-Yo presents their information
as someone with a poor understanding of the English language can make a good point awful
and an awful point becomes irrelevant.
Imran

I haven't seen Ne-Yo around much lately, but if he shows up, feel free to take charge of the theist side.

k, I'm back

well, I dont really have anything constructive to add to this perticuler thread at this momment, but I hope I will be able to answer every question to the best that can be done.

I do not mean to "dodge points" as Universal says it, but I sumtimes miss what someone says, and I also hope that this formate will make it easier for me NOT to miss points

I will also conferm that I will exept any additional help from anyone who wishes to give it.

Good luck to you

Thanks Keeper,
that was well put, and we await your and Tsen's little exhibition.
Let the duel begin!
Imran

I dont see this going anywhere. Well because too the best of my memory Tsen said to keeper you have no evidence and then somehow out of this a showdown thing started. Now unless Keeper finds some evidence then it pointless.

Tsen make sure your first point is you got no evidence. Also make sure you bring up the age of the universe being 13.7 billion years and that all the evidence i.e. expansion of universe e.t.c. point to a big bang.

Please refrain from offering points in here. Try pm-ing Tsen if you want to offer input.
What we dont want is someone now replying to ur point, then you replying to them. That is NOT the point in this thread =)
Thanks
Imran