Thread: If I Were God...

That is true Ne-yo. Some people actually find pleasure in certain experiences that others find completely uncomfortable. There are cultures that practice uncomfortable things also, but take pride in what they do.

Also, not everybody considers paradise the same. We couldn't all experience bliss in the same way for it is not concrete.

Of course, in this universe of no problems and suffering, we would all have to be the same anyway. We certainly wouldn't be ourselves anymore. Mind you, in the same sense, bliss would no longer be bliss for it holds no meaning.

Frankly, it seems like this world would be stagnant. =\

I'm talking about the kind of suffering that the sufferer doesn't like. Burning forever is a good example.

Actually, being on fire for any amount of time is a good example.

Originally Posted by Koji

Also, not everybody considers paradise the same. We couldn't all experience bliss in the same way for it is not concrete.

Of course, in this universe of no problems and suffering, we would all have to be the same anyway. We certainly wouldn't be ourselves anymore. Mind you, in the same sense, bliss would no longer be bliss for it holds no meaning.

Frankly, it seems like this world would be stagnant. =\
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Okay, get your skull ready because I am going to try once again to penetrate it with a point that has not gone through yet. Are you ready? Okay... A situation with NO PROBLEMS would involve absolutely NO PROBLEMS. NO PROBLMES. Get it? NO PROBLEMS. Understand the idea? NO PROBLEMS. NO PROBLEMS. Do you read me? Koji, come in. Houston calling Koji. Come in Koji. Koji, do you read me? NO PROBLEMS. It is in your very words above. Do you remember saying them? NO PROBLEMS. It is illogical to argue that there would be problems in a situation with no problems. Get it? NO PROBLEMS. (I think we've lost him.)

Come on. Those last two post are grasping for straws.

-Different suffering
-Bliss is different

Originally Posted by Universal

Okay, get your skull ready because I am going to try once again to penetrate it with a point that has not gone through yet. Are you ready? Okay... A situation with NO PROBLEMS would involve absolutely NO PROBLEMS. NO PROBLMES. Get it? NO PROBLEMS. Understand the idea? NO PROBLEMS. NO PROBLEMS. Do you read me? Koji, come in. Houston calling Koji. Come in Koji. Koji, do you read me? NO PROBLEMS. It is in your very words above. Do you remember saying them? NO PROBLEMS. It is illogical to argue that there would be problems in a situation with no problems. Get it? NO PROBLEMS. (I think we've lost him.)
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Originally Posted by Universal

Okay, get your skull ready because I am going to try once again to penetrate it with a point that has not gone through yet. Are you ready? Okay... A situation with NO PROBLEMS would involve absolutely NO PROBLEMS. NO PROBLMES. Get it? NO PROBLEMS. Understand the idea? NO PROBLEMS. NO PROBLEMS. Do you read me? Koji, come in. Houston calling Koji. Come in Koji. Koji, do you read me? NO PROBLEMS. It is in your very words above. Do you remember saying them? NO PROBLEMS. It is illogical to argue that there would be problems in a situation with no problems. Get it? NO PROBLEMS. (I think we've lost him.)
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More ignorance from Universal.

Read my post again and see that I never said there would be a problem. I did indeed mock the outcome, but I never said it would be a problem. Yep, no problems, I did in fact say there would be no problems.

Wait, maybe you count us all being the same as a problem? Though, to us it wouldn't be a problem, I guess it would to the creator of this universe though. How tragic.

And again I ask for a different plan other than promises, which is all you presented. I so far have not gotten one. Saying "no problems" repeatedly is not an answer to the issue at hand.


BTW, Howetzer, culturally/socially speaking, there would be a difference. We all live thinking everyone wants to live the same way, this is just not true.

Not everyone wants the things some of us enjoy. We certainly don't want what some others enjoy. It is incorrect to believe that everyone wants the same thing.

Originally Posted by Koji

More ignorance from Universal.

Read my post again and see that I never said there would be a problem. I did indeed mock the outcome, but I never said it would be a problem. Yep, no problems, I did in fact say there would be no problems.

Wait, maybe you count us all being the same as a problem? Though, to us it wouldn't be a problem, I guess it would to the creator of this universe though. How tragic.

And again I ask for a different plan other than promises, which is all you presented. I so far have not gotten one. Saying "no problems" repeatedly is not an answer to the issue at hand.
BTW, Howetzer, culturally/socially speaking, there would be a difference. We all live thinking everyone wants to live the same way, this is just not true.

Not everyone wants the things some of us enjoy. We certainly don't want what some others enjoy. It is incorrect to believe that everyone wants the same thing.
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You are birning up points that have no releavance i nthe world Universal is suggesting.
We certinaly dont want what some others enjoy did you say?

well Universal could orchestrate it that we all ahd what we wanted
rember he is omnipotent and omniscient
he can do these things

Your reasoning is cancelled out by the sheer power of our new god, who is not only all poerful and all knowing but he utilises these abilities.

Imran

BTW, Howetzer, culturally/socially speaking, there would be a difference. We all live thinking everyone wants to live the same way, this is just not true.[/b]

Is it a relative difference?
If so, Your wish is my command...Burn in HEll!

I still think that is a weak grasp at a failing discussion.

I see what you are saying imran, but wouldn't those various different things people enjoy conflict with each other? Now, the argument will be applied, "no, because there is no problem, thus it works."

That is not an answer though, that is ignoring the problem. I am asking how it would work. Claiming power is just a guise for an argument. It doesn't really answer anything.

The fact is, it can't be answered because you wouldn't know how to deliver these promises. We aren't omniscient/omnipotent and yet we are trying to understand God and his power. This doesn't make sense because you cannot.


Howetzer: The fact that we all have different ideas of what is and what is not suffering/bliss makes it valid to the argument at hand. The difference is big enough to make it important.

However, with the way this discussion is going, you are right, it doesn't mean much. I am just saying, it is a truth that we have these basic differences.

I must agree though, burning forever is a good example of suffering as Universal said. I am pretty sure that no one actually wants to burn for eternity O_O

We wouldnt enoy conlficitng things
it could be rochestrated so we enoyed purely what universal was setting out for us to enjoy
instead we are offered things that we blatnatly dont enjoy
We would enjoy whatever was offered, because he would create this planet revolving around our desieres which he himslef seleteced,
rather than this free will malarky
although, im aruging this point and i dont really know if this is the argument intended by universal
so if its not
fell free to tell me at any time =)

Imran

Originally Posted by Koji

More ignorance from Universal.

Read my post again and see that I never said there would be a problem. [/b]

Originally Posted by Koji

Of course, in this universe of no problems and suffering, we would all have to be the same anyway. We certainly wouldn't be ourselves anymore. Mind you, in the same sense, bliss would no longer be bliss for it holds no meaning.

Frankly, it seems like this world would be stagnant. =\
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More ignorance from Koji.

I really thought my awesome graph would have an impact.

One last thing to add and I am done.
Does everyone realize what all powerful is? Because if you did, there are no variables to contend with. Problem solved.
Good day fellas.

Where ever we all end up, I hope to see you there. In a relatively moderate and temperate environment.

Originally Posted by Koji

More ignorance from Universal.

Read my post again and see that I never said there would be a problem. I did indeed mock the outcome, but I never said it would be a problem. Yep, no problems, I did in fact say there would be no problems.

Wait, maybe you count us all being the same as a problem? Though, to us it wouldn't be a problem, I guess it would to the creator of this universe though. How tragic.

And again I ask for a different plan other than promises, which is all you presented. I so far have not gotten one. Saying "no problems" repeatedly is not an answer to the issue at hand.
BTW, Howetzer, culturally/socially speaking, there would be a difference. We all live thinking everyone wants to live the same way, this is just not true.

Not everyone wants the things some of us enjoy. We certainly don't want what some others enjoy. It is incorrect to believe that everyone wants the same thing.
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This is by far an excellent point. What is it that you guys cannot seem to comprehend?


Well I don't see a major problem as it seems as though people are convinced that we live a life of nothing but suffering which is just not true. As a matter of fact there is far more good in peoples lives than there are suffering. If God were a sadist, He could give us infinitely more pain than we do suffer. He could force us to eat as the drug addict is forced to the use of his drug, by the pain of abstention instead of by the pleasing urge of healthy hunger. All physical functions could be forced by pain instead of invited by pleasure. If God were indifferent, why the variety of fruit flavors for the palate, the invariably harmonizing riot of colors in flower and sunset, the tang of salt air and power to vibrate in joy to these things? If God loves His creatures all is explained, except death, pain, and sorrow, and these things would indeed present, as they do present to all but believers, an insoluble problem. But the Bible's explanation is clear as crystal: 'Death came by sin,' and the glorious end is as succinctly put as the explanation, 'And God shall wipe all tears from their eyes.'"

Now, to size the problem, let me point out that by far and away, the VAST majority of pain and suffering is preventative it alerts us to take evasive action to avoid more pain and harm. As such, the vast majority of “suffering” is constructive and helpful, even though unpleasant. By the same token, much adversity and challenge result in personal achievement and community care responses; and many horrendous evils result in public outcry, resulting in macro-shifts in public morality and ultural 'compromises' (The Holocaust, Bosnia). And even the low-level whining of discontent sometimes irritates us enough to better ourselves or to change our situation/future.

Originally Posted by Ne

What is it that you guys cannot seem to comprehend?
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Why you and Koji cannot comprehend the concept of infinite power.

Originally Posted by Ne

Does everyone realize what all powerful is? Because if you did, there are no variables to contend with. Problem solved.

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Bingo! Very well put. I wish I could hand you an award. But the graph wasn't steep enough. And you could put this face there to represent me on a line that drifts toward infinite bafflement.

But if there were no problems, wouldn't there be such and such problems?

You know I only read th firs two, almost three pages here, WOW, I grew up a F'in Mormon (moron) Plilg, that's short for polygamist.

What I know about Mormon Christianity is that every one can become a God, and make there own Universe with Galaxy and Solar sys with an Earth. Then all the children you had on earth and their seed can "populate" that Earth. Only those who have three wifes or more can in actuality go to heaven. Why do they go to Heaven and sit wiht Christ if their going to be Gods.
And why is Christ in Heaven and not a God.

Anyway, We might as well all be Our Own God's!

And if the bible is the word of God then Why did man wright it! and why dose he not include every other race of man and what they where doing. He has some love affair with the Jews, or something I guess. In a=case your wondering I've read the bible twice so I know what I'm talking about. Christianity actually evolved from Judaism and the only reason anyone is Christian is cause the bloody Romans started to force every one to be or they where killed.

If I were all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful, If I put myself in that place... I just NEVER EVER see myself making the world we live in today.

Well, he gave us free will, which, in turn allows us to make decisions that hurt other people. The suffering is our fault, not His.

If he had not given us free will, then what would be the point of the world? All we would be is robots doing nothing but good things, and the whole world would be a moot point.

It's kinda like a big experiment.

Originally Posted by Sagea

Well, he gave us free will, which, in turn allows us to make decisions that hurt other people. The suffering is our fault, not His.

If he had not given us free will, then what would be the point of the world? All we would be is robots doing nothing but good things, and the whole world would be a moot point.

It's kinda like a big experiment.
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That is a contradiction. An experiment has a goal. If god would know everything, he would know the result of giving men free will. That would mean he is just doing it for fun. And that doesn't fit with all-loving.

And 'what would be the point' is just silly, it implies that a perfect god would even NEED a point.

Neruo:
if you where God would you let ridiculous dogma exist?
Would you let the bible, in Romans somewhere (i'm not going to look it up) say that Lucifer is god of this world?

To all hte Christians out there is it to God or God/Lucifer that you pray? After all it's your free will.

Something to think about.

Originally Posted by Sagea

Well, he gave us free will, which, in turn allows us to make decisions that hurt other people. The suffering is our fault, not His.

If he had not given us free will, then what would be the point of the world? All we would be is robots doing nothing but good things, and the whole world would be a moot point.

It's kinda like a big experiment.
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You are talking about what problems would exist. I am saying an infinitely powerful being could make it where there would be no problems with it. Are you saying he couldn't? Such a being could make it where we don't choose suffering for other people and where there are no problems with that. Do you think an infinitely powerful being would have that kind of power? Also, how are inborn diseases chosen (for example)?

I don't care how much of a moot point infinite bliss for all forever would be any way. There isn't an organism on Earth that would prefer the meaning this world has or any other meaning over infinite happiness forever. The latter would get 100% of the vote.

Why would something that knows everything conduct an experiment?

Originally Posted by taltho

Neruo:
if you where God would you let ridiculous dogma exist?
Would you let the bible, in Romans somewhere (i'm not going to look it up) say that Lucifer is god of this world?

To all hte Christians out there is it to God or God/Lucifer that you pray? After all it's your free will.

Something to think about.
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So, how can god be all-powerful, yet 'lucifer is the god of this world'. That would mean god gave away his powers, because if he still is in power in the world, and he lets lucifer (his creation too) bring suffering to this world, then god is brining suffering to this world. A perfect god could have foreseen.

So, would the christian god exist, then he is not all-powerful. Or just all powerful and and asshole.

-

EDIT:

Originally Posted by taltho

Why would something that knows everything conduct an experiment?
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My point exactly, I noticed that what I just said is alot like what you, universal mind just said (before I read it).

I cant recall if this has been asked, but where does it say God is all loving?

Originally Posted by Keeper

I cant recall if this has been asked, but where does it say God is all loving?
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Ever been to a church? In most of them they they you A LOT how god loves everyone.

answer me this: If there would be a perfect being that could create everything but also already know everything, would it be logic for it to create anything? If it's knowledge of the future is perfect, it doesn't matter to him or we exist or not, yet we do. So, wouldn't that make god illogical?

I dont quite see the logic in your post. perhaps a re-phrase

Francly, I dont care what Doctrin is. "Hell" is doctran, not in the Bible (if someone can convince me otherwise ...)

If someone can tell me where the Bible says that God loves all that I will be satisfied (if true), but otherwise ...