The Blasphemy Challenge

[LucidDreamGod]

I searched to see if anyone had posted this link before ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7QVbJnSPQE ), to my suprise no one has or at least not on this forum were it should be, This is a challenge that speaks for its self what you do is deny the holy spirit the unforgivable sin, I'm not sure of the exact verse but I have heard Neruo qoute it several times, and I thought other atheists would find it interesting, it is the seocund most replyed to video on youtube, with over 1000 people that have comitted Blasphemy To Christians: Don't be offended these are just people who deny the holy spirit, it is NOT hate of god, or discrimination of him in anyway. EDIT: Mark 3:29

[Tsen]

Yeah, I already accepted the challenge. Back when I submitted my video, YouTube was doing funky things, so I don't know if it worked. Haven't checked back lately, either, but I'm assuming it's there.

[juroara]

you guys simply do not have any idea what it means to deny the holy spirit. you look at everything said in the bible as if its a simple black and white human terms. you think denying the holy spirit simply means saying "I deny the holy spirit". come on! thats like saying you can deny rain by saying you deny rain...no..its still gonna fall on your head. the bible describes the holy spirit as freely going where it pleases. no one can stop it from coming, or going. christians can not command the holy spirit to enter their body, anymore than an atheist can command it to leave. it has its own will above our own will. being your 'mystic christian', I guess, thats the term now? this is my idea of the holy spirit. if you understand what I said above, than the holy spirit, will deny your free will to an extent, since its will is more than yours. the holy spirit is like, the most divine will of God in a way. existing before this universe, before time, before the angels, before there were any lifeforms to call a place heaven. the holy spirit gives power to meet Gods will, and destroys everything against Gods highest will, the most divine will. Technically, anything agaisnt God is a sin. However, we can ask for forgiveness, and we are forgiven for just about anything. Except the highest will, the divine will. Now, a lot of christians will differ in what this divine will is. Most christians will say God has always been the same, and will always be the same. I agree, but only to the extent that Gods will and desires has always been the same, and will always be the same. His will never changes, but that will is the will to Be More - which eventually became the will to create life. In this scenario, God is like a blank canvas AND the painter, certainly a painted canvas is much more than a blank canvas. But the canvas is never full of colors becuase the canvas is always expanding. Since we are made in Gods image, this most divine will applies to us. We can't settle for being less, we must always strive to be better, co-create and create better things. And once we become better, we become better than better, and create even better things. If you are the type that believes in the evolution of the human soul, you can say we walked up a ladder, always becoming better. The unforgivable sin against the holy spirit is a blatant effort to become less, or a refusal to become more. Everyone has infered that if you are not forgiven by the holy spirit, it means hell. However, I dont see it as such, since hell is a state of consciousness NOT a definitive place. If you are not forigiven, the holy spirit comes down in a fury and bitch-slaps you into sense (not literally), and continues to bitch-slap you until you do. a bitch-slap that makes you realize you are a total slob who needs to get a life sorta deal. Where as all those other sins that were forgiven, it looked the other way. Becuase as long as you realize you did something wrong and ask for forgiveness, that is still an effort to be a better person - thus you are still playing along with divine will, the holy spirit, so you never went against the holy spirit as long as you can feel sorry for wrongs you have done. So if you guys REALLY want to pick up the challenge of blasphemizing against the holy spirit, you dont have to wait to die to feel its fury. Do everything in your power to make yourself less and less everyday. Never strive to be a better person. Never feel sorry for anything you do, and do everything to cause harm onto another. Hate and never love. Lie and never tell the truth. Dishonest and never be honest. Atheists think not believing in God is the best way to rebel in God. No. Even demons and the fallen angels believe in God, even they believe the holy spirit is real!! The best way to rebel is to go against the divine will of being more than more, of creating. Become less, and less and less, until you are a power of emptyness, like black hole sucking in the light. Thats what it means to deny the holy spirit, since the holy spirit is truly the will of God. You have to deny the will of God first to deny the holy spirit. Try again.

[Neruo]

you guys simply do not have any idea what it means to deny the holy spirit. you look at everything said in the bible as if its a simple black and white human terms. you think denying the holy spirit simply means saying "I deny the holy spirit". come on! thats like saying you can deny rain by saying you deny rain...no..its still gonna fall on your head. [/b] Read the bible you schmuck-a-dee-schmuckster. All some people do in mark's gospel is say to Jesus his miracles are dark powers. By doing that, they blasphemed the holy spirit. By that, they get eternal damnation. You are a lame Christian that refuses to see the bad parts in the bible. The parts where god allows for murder, rape and slavery.

[wasup]

or your wrong

[Neruo]

or your wrong [/b] Shall we have an independent panel test or Christians focus as much on the bad things in the bible as they focus on the good things?

[juroara]

neruo, most christians havent even read the bible. weve only read a poorly translated version thats been edited over 2000 years from its original state - with even the catholic church admitting it has biblical documents not in the bible I believe in the living word

[Neruo]

neruo, most christians havent even read the bible. weve only read a poorly translated version thats been edited over 2000 years from its original state - with even the catholic church admitting it has biblical documents not in the bible I believe in the living word [/b] Just a good thing the living word isn't told by idiots who read that bible-that-isn't-correct-anymore. Seriously, the word has been raped so hard in the middle-ages by all the dogma and such. What DO you believe?

[juroara]

you dont really care about what I believe in. all you would do is argue against me using the bible which you might as well force someone elses beliefs down my throat. since you are not christian, who are you to decide what a christian does or does not believe?

[Neruo]

Well I am glad that you accept you just believe in made-up silly things, since there isn't any actual proof for believing what you do. Only thing you could do better is perhaps Not being so extremely certain of the proof-less-'fact' that god exist.

[juroara]

I am a spiritual person - that means I value the human experience as a form of proof. if an X number of people claim to have witnessed the holy spirit descend and fill them with love *which many christians who go on retreats still claim to experience* then who am I to say they all made it up? it was a life changing experience for them and inspired them to be better people if an X number of people in my family have been visited by other family members at the time of their death, while thousands of miles apart, while the one physically alive didn't even know the other had just recently died - what reason do I have to believe they were lying? what reason do I have to believe it was a delusion of their depression when they did not know what happened and had no reason to be depressed? there are thousands of spiritual experiences that happen every day - to people of all walks of life. Ive had my own experiences which I do not like to share. when you sum up these experiences, there are a lot of times themes behind them, messages. and some of these messages go against the teachings of christian religions - do you know where modern day christians have come up with the idea that hell is a state of mind, not a place, and that God does not send people to hell, they send themselves freely? these ideas first stemmed from NDEs - they are still happening today, and still carrying the same theme, that hell and heaven is a choice. now, I do not concider myself the 'bible-thumping' christian. my definition of a bible-thumping christian is a christian who has never had their own spiritual experience, and they deny all spiritual experiences - they tend to think their own christian friends are delusional people and that the human soul could not possibly recieve some sort of truth outside the bible, since the bible is the only truth in their eyes. thus - bible-thumping, or humping. their only method for attaining truth is a book, that is no longer in its original form. the bible-thumping christian does not accept any spiritual message not directly supported by the bible. their explanation of a loving God not sending people to hell in NDEs? simple, that all NDEs are actually deceptions of the devil, and when Jesus or God meets the person its actually the devil in disguise - somehow radiating love (how does a hateful being radiate love?). Here the devil wants to spread lies, mostly the lie that God loves you and it is your choice to enter heaven. I dont understand this logic though, since most NDErs walk out with a deeper sense of God-love even if they didn't really believe in God before nearly dying. That goes against the devils desires. NDEs also illustrate ideas of reincarnation, and that everything really is our free will - in that we choose to be born on earth and we choose where we are born, what family we are born into, and what basic situations in life we ourselves plan to deal with. These NDEs are also concidered lies by christian religions, yet the vast majority of these NDEs are comming from church-going christians who didnt even believe in reincarnation to begin with - or that they even choose to come into this life. Like I said, I value the human experience, and the living word. That doesn't mean I believe in everything someone claims to have experience. Vast numbers and consistancy are important to me as well, as well if the person was on drugs or is a small child. Neither do I deny non-christian spiritual experiences, as that is just hypocritical. Pagan rituals for example in christianity are not banned because they are fake or stupid, but becuase they involve real spirits.

[LucidDreamGod]

I am a spiritual person - that means I value the human experience as a form of proof. if an X number of people claim to have witnessed the holy spirit descend and fill them with love *which many christians who go on retreats still claim to experience* then who am I to say they all made it up? it was a life changing experience for them and inspired them to be better people if an X number of people in my family have been visited by other family members at the time of their death, while thousands of miles apart, while the one physically alive didn't even know the other had just recently died - what reason do I have to believe they were lying? what reason do I have to believe it was a delusion of their depression when they did not know what happened and had no reason to be depressed? there are thousands of spiritual experiences that happen every day - to people of all walks of life. Ive had my own experiences which I do not like to share. when you sum up these experiences, there are a lot of times themes behind them, messages. and some of these messages go against the teachings of christian religions - do you know where modern day christians have come up with the idea that hell is a state of mind, not a place, and that God does not send people to hell, they send themselves freely? these ideas first stemmed from NDEs - they are still happening today, and still carrying the same theme, that hell and heaven is a choice. now, I do not concider myself the 'bible-thumping' christian. my definition of a bible-thumping christian is a christian who has never had their own spiritual experience, and they deny all spiritual experiences - they tend to think their own christian friends are delusional people and that the human soul could not possibly recieve some sort of truth outside the bible, since the bible is the only truth in their eyes. thus - bible-thumping, or humping. their only method for attaining truth is a book, that is no longer in its original form. the bible-thumping christian does not accept any spiritual message not directly supported by the bible. their explanation of a loving God not sending people to hell in NDEs? simple, that all NDEs are actually deceptions of the devil, and when Jesus or God meets the person its actually the devil in disguise - somehow radiating love (how does a hateful being radiate love?). Here the devil wants to spread lies, mostly the lie that God loves you and it is your choice to enter heaven. I dont understand this logic though, since most NDErs walk out with a deeper sense of God-love even if they didn't really believe in God before nearly dying. That goes against the devils desires. NDEs also illustrate ideas of reincarnation, and that everything really is our free will - in that we choose to be born on earth and we choose where we are born, what family we are born into, and what basic situations in life we ourselves plan to deal with. These NDEs are also concidered lies by christian religions, yet the vast majority of these NDEs are comming from church-going christians who didnt even believe in reincarnation to begin with - or that they even choose to come into this life. Like I said, I value the human experience, and the living word. That doesn't mean I believe in everything someone claims to have experience. Vast numbers and consistancy are important to me as well, as well if the person was on drugs or is a small child. Neither do I deny non-christian spiritual experiences, as that is just hypocritical. Pagan rituals for example in christianity are not banned because they are fake or stupid, but becuase they involve real spirits. [/b] I really think the main diffrents between religious people, and atheists is you trust in peoples claims but the truth is it wouldn't stand up in a court room, I beleive the term is heresy.

[Kaniaz]

Even if I don't believe entirely (or maybe even at all) in what juroara says, you have to hand it to her for some damn interesting views compared to a lot of cookie-cutter things I read on here. (Wait, am I allowed to actually compliment someone in this Religion/Debate forum without, you know, arguing?)

[Neruo]

I am a spiritual person - that means I value the human experience as a form of proof. if an X number of people claim to have witnessed the holy spirit descend and fill them with love *which many christians who go on retreats still claim to experience* then who am I to say they all made it up? it was a life changing experience for them and inspired them to be better people there are thousands of spiritual experiences that happen every day - to people of all walks of life. Ive had my own experiences which I do not like to share. Stuff about dead people talking to alive people and such. [/b] Even if I don't believe entirely (or maybe even at all) in what juroara says, you have to hand it to her for some damn interesting views compared to a lot of cookie-cutter things I read on here.[/b] I am not even trying to be a bastard here, but someone that believe in religion and talking to the dead and such (quite likely) because one had one of those 'miracles' themselves is, without shitting you, to me personally the number 2 reason why people are religious, second to religious indoctrination. If you ask people that turned to Christianity, almost ALL of them will say they have witnessed some sort of miracle: They talked to their dead grandmother, they/friend/family member were/was sick and said to be incurable, happened to pray or be pray for and if they get better they always say it was the praying that cured them, ect, more of that sort of stuff. It really doesn't get more cookie-cutter then 'I just know, because I myself talked to my dad grandmother/almost died and saw heaven/prayed for cure and it worked. Of the Christians I know a rather large group belongs in that category. And they do tend to be less fundamentalist, yes. (Wait, am I allowed to actually compliment someone in this Religion/Debate forum without, you know, arguing?) [/b] Oh yes you are, if you would actually post substance here you might notice. - Anyhow, since Juroara doesn't need proof, if a Whole bunch of people are extremely certain of the same thing then that is the truth, I guess atheist are right. And so are Muslims. And the Nazi's for that matter. I almost begin to like not needing arguments and proof, wouldn't it be that it makes me feel inhuman.

[Kaniaz]

It really doesn't get more cookie-cutter then 'I just know, because I myself talked to my dad grandmother/almost died and saw heaven/prayed for cure and it worked[/b] If you think juroara is so cookie-cutter, and you're expecting that traditional, bored, worn out cookie-cutter response, why argue? Why not make a cookie-cutter responder? Why not just go cut cookies? I almost begin to like not needing arguments and proof[/b] Don't feel like that. The only thing worst than a theist without a clue is an atheist without a clue. This is because the theist can at least pretend, with the aid of the magic-word 'God', to have a clue. Oh yes you are, if you would actually post substance here you might notice.[/b] What, like your idea of "substance"? Please don't make me laugh. I die inside when I laugh.

[LucidDreamGod]

I am not even trying to be a bastard here, but someone that believe in religion and talking to the dead and such (quite likely) because one had one of those 'miracles' themselves is, without shitting you, to me personally the number 2 reason why people are religious, second to religious indoctrination. If you ask people that turned to Christianity, almost ALL of them will say they have witnessed some sort of miracle: They talked to their dead grandmother, they/friend/family member were/was sick and said to be incurable, happened to pray or be pray for and if they get better they always say it was the praying that cured them, ect, more of that sort of stuff. It really doesn't get more cookie-cutter then 'I just know, because I myself talked to my dad grandmother/almost died and saw heaven/prayed for cure and it worked. Of the Christians I know a rather large group belongs in that category. And they do tend to be less fundamentalist, yes. Oh yes you are, if you would actually post substance here you might notice. - Anyhow, since Juroara doesn't need proof, if a Whole bunch of people are extremely certain of the same thing then that is the truth, I guess atheist are right. And so are Muslims. And the Nazi's for that matter. I almost begin to like not needing arguments and proof, wouldn't it be that it makes me feel inhuman. [/b] Thats true but some christians assume miracles for everything good that happens, well it is just as likely for something exteremly good to happen, as it is for something exteremly bad to happen. Neruo you make a good point the Nazi's were a large group of people who beleived something, the only diffrents is that was evil and christianity was good, way before christianity the greeks wrote of miracles, I wish I could find a case of something amazing that happened in another religion, a miracle, I'm sure there are some, about 99% sure. EDIT: miracles of islam http://www.miraclesofislam.com/handmarks.shtml http://www.miraclesofislam.com/africa.shtml http://www.miraclesofislam.com/treeruku.shtml http://www.miraclesofislam.com/apollo.shtml a whole list of stuff http://www.geocities.com/islamicmiracles/index.htm Hindu miracles http://www.newfrontier.com/asheville...lk-miracle.htm Just some of them

[Neruo]

Thats true but some christians assume miracles for everything good that happens, well it is just as likely for something exteremly good to happen, as it is for something exteremly bad to happen.[/b] Yeah, few people see 9/11 or Catrina as a miracle (some americans do, some do...). Strangely enough quite some Muslim fundamentalist do see it as a miracle... Hmm, maybe that says something about how people can see miracles in everything that is not even coincidental, just bound to happen every now and then. Neruo you make a good point the Nazi's were a large group of people who beleived something, the only diffrents is that was evil and christianity was good, [/b] Did you enjoy the Spanish inquisition? Christianity is as good as fascism. In theory, on paper, fascism isn't bad too. In the real world, both always lead to bloodshed. How silly of you to say Christianity is 'good' if it has killed more people then Hitler. I am not saying it is rotten to the core. But it does have occasional huge leaps toward plain Evil. way before christianity the greeks wrote of miracles, I wish I could find a case of something amazing that happened in another religion, a miracle, I'm sure there are some, about 99% sure. EDIT: miracles of islam http://www.miraclesofislam.com/handmarks.shtml http://www.miraclesofislam.com/africa.shtml http://www.miraclesofislam.com/treeruku.shtml http://www.miraclesofislam.com/apollo.shtml a whole list of stuff http://www.geocities.com/islamicmiracles/index.htm Hindu miracles http://www.newfrontier.com/asheville...lk-miracle.htm Just some of them [/b] OH MY GOD?!?! YOU MEAN CHRISTIANS DIDN'T INVENT MIRACLES?! OTHER PEOPLE SEE MIRACLES TOO?! NOOOOOOO?!?!?!?!? Yes, duh. The first 'miracle' was probably when 2 cavemen first talked about that silly white-fire from the sky. People see miracles in everything, that is just in human nature. If it proves ANYTHING, it proves that the Christian god doesn't have a monopoly on miracles. Either all the gods ever existed preform miracles, or god does as much miracles as Thor: Zero. The fact that miracles are of all time and all places is for me DISPROOF of the existance of a SPECIFIC god. It doesn't say anything about there being some sort of higher being, but it does tell me Allah does as much miracles as God: None. Thus those religions are lies, for they claim they are the only ones to hold miracles, however they have no significant difference from other religions.

[Moonbeam]

Atheists think not believing in God is the best way to rebel in God. [/b] No we don't. Who rebels against something that they don't believe in? That doesn't make any sense.

[Tsen]

Dang, Moonbeam beat me to the punch. I will, however, add this: Even demons and the fallen angels believe in God[/b] You DO realize this is total circular logic? I don't believe in God, and neither do I believe in angels (including the fallen sort). I don't believe in demons, either. So what do I care what your mythical creatures believe in? That's like saying, "Even centaurs believe in fairies!"

[wasup]

Shall we have an independent panel test or Christians focus as much on the bad things in the bible as they focus on the good things? [/b] Eh? I was talking to the other guy, at any rate.

[juroara]

Dang, Moonbeam beat me to the punch. I will, however, add this: You DO realize this is total circular logic? I don't believe in God, and neither do I believe in angels (including the fallen sort). I don't believe in demons, either. So what do I care what your mythical creatures believe in? That's like saying, "Even centaurs believe in fairies!" [/b] atheists, especially on this board, constantly act like you are some how rebelling against christianity and God by not believing - thus the blasphemy challenge I do not get the more scientific attitude from atheists on this board - that its not religion, but simply science that has made them not believe

[Moonbeam]

I do not get the more scientific attitude from atheists on this board - that its not religion, but simply science that has made them not believe [/b] Then you haven't been paying attention.

[Tsen]

atheists, especially on this board, constantly act like you are some how rebelling against christianity and God by not believing - thus the blasphemy challenge[/b] No, I think you're missing the point. The point is, we don't believe in Christian mythology, and thus aren't afraid of the supposed "damnation". Not because we're "rebelling"--although there is a certain amount of intended shock effect. I do not get the more scientific attitude from atheists on this board - that its not religion, but simply science that has made them not believe [/b] Moreso a combination of both. I stopped believing because Christianity logically contradicts itself. However, that isn't the only "path to unbelief". And yes, science DOES disprove Christianity. On several levels. So yes, it is perfectly logical for somebody not to believe based on science.

[Neruo]

No we don't. Who rebels against something that they don't believe in? That doesn't make any sense. [/b] Hahaha yeah. Man that statement makes NO sense what so ever. It is just plainly hilarious that someone is THAT bad at understanding how other people think. - Edit: lol. She didn't actually think the people that did the eternal sin actually believed in it? Like Tsen said, it is a Shock factor. It shows the ridiculousness of certain people that think you go to some made-up place called hell, just for saying a few words.

[juroara]

no, theres a level of rebellion in it. in that atheists who are not anti-christian atheists dont feel a need to say their beliefs as a shock value - or even to argue with others with what they believe in. like an atheist who walks around saying "If youre real God, strike me down with lightning" while another atheist finding that type of behavior - immature.