Thread: Jesus Of Suburbia

Originally Posted by Conforming

I heard that someone died on 04/05/06! Oh my gawd!!! Progressive numbers are the DEVIL!!!!! ARGHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!!
People die everyday dude, no matter what the date is
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Oh my god, I know what you mean! Last night, I hit my head, EXACTLY (well, sort of) at 12:34! There is only one explanation: The entire world is at danger every day at 12:34.

No.

I agree, probably there isn't a significant increase of bad things at 666, and if there is, it is caused by people that are nervous. Just like on Friday the 13th, that is a bunch of nonsense too.

Originally Posted by juroara

the bible pretty much says that when Christ comes again, it will not be a question. No one will question if this really is Christ or not, they will know.

so if someone questions if this is the second coming of Jesus or not, then, its a false Christ
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Are you saying that Jesus won't come again until independant thought is eliminated?

Originally Posted by Merlin38

Are you saying that Jesus won't come again until independant thought is eliminated?
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That about sums it up. Global mass histeria.

In South Africa, we have a daily newspaper called the Daily Voice. It comprises six pages, two of which are sport, and one of which is breasts. One day, it featured a story of a women who is 85 years old, lives in a tiny apartment, and hasn't moved for two years. She shits (sic) in the same chair every day. The people in the apartment below her started to complain when the liquid faeces and urine started dripping from their ceiling.

This story was featured in the next edition.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

Are you saying that Jesus won't come again until independant thought is eliminated?
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how is independent thought being eliminated? that makes no sense? how you guys understand christianity makes no sense? who said anything about independent thought being eliminated? all I am saying is if christians have to ask if this is Christ, then it isnt. In the second coming, we are all supposed to recognize it - I dont want to go further into details though

The Bible doesn't really say exactly how it will happen. Except 2 main things maybe:

- All christians will be "raptured": millions of christians around the world will simeltaneously be taken to Heaven. Their bodies might all suddenly disappear like in the books/movies Left Behind. Or their bodies might fall to the ground dead and their spirits will get taken to Heaven and get new bodies (this is how I think it will probably happen...the Bible does say that we'll have new bodies in Heaven)
- Satan will deceive the world somehow and explain this so that people won't think "the Bible must be right!"

Also there's a prophecy that seems to say that it will happen soon. Something like, the generation that sees Israel become a country again (which was 1948) will see the second coming of Jesus.

Matthew 24

"27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. "

does he fit this description? no, so he isnt Jesus

Originally Posted by Uviteru

and the stars shall fall [/b]

How do stars fall?

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

- Satan will deceive the world somehow and explain this so that people won't think "the Bible must be right!"
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People don't need Satan for that.

Originally Posted by taihen

People don't need Satan for that.
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I think they do, if only for inspiration. The deception would fall apart otherwise.

Actually if Satan didn't deceive us there would be NO deception, he's the only deceiver. If you think about it like a christian does you'll see that. (But you probably don't believe in Satan)

Edit: This was to taihen

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

If you think about it like a christian does you'll see that. (But you probably don't believe in Satan)
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You've got that right. Unfortunately, from an atheist's perspective, one that doesn't include God or Satan, it is different.

But enough of this, please continue with Christian theological discussion.

Originally Posted by taihen

People don't need Satan for that.
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Originally Posted by taihen

You've got that right. Unfortunately, from an atheist's perspective, one that doesn't include God or Satan, it is different.

But enough of this, please continue with Christian theological discussion.
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Great point!
The ideaology of Satan, is a force that is scary to Christians.
But if you think about it as I do, Christianity is one of the very few religions that have somewhere that you go if you do bad. Almost all other religions (I think please don't quote me lol) just have an "underworld" of some sort or reincarnation. However ALL of them incorporate kharma.

Originally Posted by juroara

how is independent thought being eliminated? that makes no sense? how you guys understand christianity makes no sense? who said anything about independent thought being eliminated? all I am saying is if christians have to ask if this is Christ, then it isnt. In the second coming, we are all supposed to recognize it - I dont want to go further into details though
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"the bible pretty much says that when Christ comes again, it will not be a question. No one will question if this really is Christ or not, they will know.

so if someone questions if this is the second coming of Jesus or not, then, its a false Christ"

Those were your exact words. If someone questions the second coming of Jesus, then it is not real. Therefore, in order for a real second coming, everyone must agree that a single figure is the second Jesus. It is nearly impossible for every single sentient being to agree on religious matters. For every human to suddenly decide that Jesus has come again, an external force, overriding logic and free will, must impose that viewpoint on said humans. Hence, free will is eliminated. If you would like to illustrate how the 2nd coming is so recognisable that all people would agree to it, then feel free.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

"the bible pretty much says that when Christ comes again, it will not be a question. No one will question if this really is Christ or not, they will know.

so if someone questions if this is the second coming of Jesus or not, then, its a false Christ"

Those were your exact words. If someone questions the second coming of Jesus, then it is not real. Therefore, in order for a real second coming, everyone must agree that a single figure is the second Jesus. It is nearly impossible for every single sentient being to agree on religious matters. For every human to suddenly decide that Jesus has come again, an external force, overriding logic and free will, must impose that viewpoint on said humans. Hence, free will is eliminated. If you would like to illustrate how the 2nd coming is so recognisable that all people would agree to it, then feel free.
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that depends on what you think Christ is

Christ to me is not an external force - it is internal. It is the living tao. Its not about a single figure being Jesus - my view of the second coming is not what you think it is. Its about christ attainment, christ consciousness. That can only be done with free will

Originally Posted by juroara

that depends on what you think Christ is

Christ to me is not an external force - it is internal. It is the living tao. Its not about a single figure being Jesus - my view of the second coming is not what you think it is. Its about christ attainment, christ consciousness. That can only be done with free will
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That's a pretty cool idea.

Though I am an athiest now, I used to be a Christian, and attended way too many chruch services in my life , but having attended said services, I know a lot about Christianity. I also know that if everyone suddenly begins to believe that a certain person is the new savior, the that person is supposedly the Anti-Christ, b/c when the real Jesus returns, the bible says no-one will know. The Anti-Christ is supposedly going to appear after the actual Christ returns for his followers though. He is supposedly going to take over the world for 7 years (though this may have come from the Left Behind Books) and eventually force everyone to take the mark of the beast, thereby condemning them to hell. Stuff like this is why I became Athiest in the first place.

Originally Posted by juroara

that depends on what you think Christ is

Christ to me is not an external force - it is internal. It is the living tao. Its not about a single figure being Jesus - my view of the second coming is not what you think it is. Its about christ attainment, christ consciousness. That can only be done with free will
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That is more logical then a physical being falling from the sky with a set of stigmata, but many religious people believe that a literal second coming will occur. This contrasts with your belief. The two institutions do not agree. One will question the other. Under your words this disqualifies both beliefs.

Originally Posted by Merlin38

That is more logical then a physical being falling from the sky with a set of stigmata, but many religious people believe that a literal second coming will occur. This contrasts with your belief. The two institutions do not agree. One will question the other. Under your words this disqualifies both beliefs.
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I do believe a second coming will happen though, and you might find my idea even less logical? The difference between me and a common christian is our understand of christ. They think christ is an individual person, individualized in one place at one time, a human being. I see christ as something much more universal "I am the way, the truth and the life". Look up the way, the truth and the life and youll find a religion that predates christianity - taoism. Here in this statement alone Christ is speaking and is stating that Christ is not a human.

in short, I believe Jesus had obtained christhood by becoming one with the tao, by becomming one with Christ. This is not a belief held by modern christians - but I have my own reasons for upholding this belief and feel this was Jesus true message. After all, even Jesus admits it is the one that works through him. If Jesus is God, who is working through him?

I dont know how many christians want to read this
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen04.html

Or how many christians know that several christians who have experienced an NDE, even when going to church every sunday, learned in their NDE that reincarnation is real and - they learned a term they were not hearing in their churches 'christ-consciousness'

Christ consciousness is when the very same power that made Jesus the Christ fills you. And does not the bible say you can do all the works that Jesus did, like move mountains and make fish out of bread?

Christianity is very eastern like, though most christians don't know it. Something that the east teaches, is that this world is full of illusions. And death is one of them. Jesus demonstrated the illusion of death.

Alright, back to the second coming - in my belief - this time Jesus is not coming as a humanized being - instead it means humans become christened beings. They become like Jesus. How else can Jesus 'rule' if we are not whole and pure like Jesus? How else can this new age be perfect if people still think and act the same? Would people still fornicate even if Jesus says stop? YES. The bible uses a lot of fluffy words, and I believe two of the verses are the marriage between the church and christ. A symbol of thousands if not millions of people attaining christhood - imagine thousands and millions of people who are like Jesus and can do his works on earth. Earth will change forever. Why is it everyone will KNOW when the second coming finally happenes? Because not even atheists will be able to deny miracles when they happen by the thousands every day. Seeing is believing right? They would truly have to be in league with the devil to deny the second coming.

And, those recieving the mark of Christ in the end of days. Is this mark in the end of days is a tattoo? Or joy, love and peace within?

Many christians recognize that no one can know when the second coming happens, but many do believe that our actions actually decide this. And I agree. We bring the second coming, and thats why no heavenly host knows when that will be. Thats why every prophesy specifying a specific date will always be wrong.

Christians will cry and sit and wait for God to change the world for them *God will not change the world for us since we already have to power to do so, but God will destroy the world if it REFUSES to change*. And every generation of christians thought the second coming would happen in their time, and wisk them away from all their troubles. Did it?? I no longer believe anymore it will happen like this. Its only through realizing we are not seperated from God, and only when we allow God to work THROUGH us will earth ever change. Christians dont like to hear this, becuase it means there is something they have to do, namgely BEING. But Jesus can only rule the world when Christ rules, and that means for the majority to be christened beings.

I believe in the end of days a series of events will happen to help people realize this. To help awaken humanity. Earth will be shaken and bitch-slapped into reality.

...

the end

Originally Posted by juroara

I dont know how many christians want to read this
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen04.html[/b]

I stopped reading when it began obviously making its argument from what the crowds were saying. Jesus and the disciples basically dismissed that as false in the next two sentences.

I don't trust NDEs. Not everyone who goes to church is a Christian in a sense that would make me trust them, and being about to die can be a strong motive to think you're going to come back to life.

Originally Posted by Brilliand

I stopped reading when it began obviously making its argument from what the crowds were saying. Jesus and the disciples basically dismissed that as false in the next two sentences.

I don't trust NDEs. Not everyone who goes to church is a Christian in a sense that would make me trust them, and being about to die can be a strong motive to think you're going to come back to life.
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Its pathetic for any christian to deny the spiritual experiences of other christians. Have you even read NDEs from christians? How they experienced a love so deep from God and Jesus words can not express it? How they believe they were sent back, to complete their life mission, the only worthy mission on earth, love?

but whatever, for close-minded religious fools who deny spiritual experiences that are the backbone of every religion - the BIBLE has something to say. My new thread shows how the bible supports reincarnation. Will you be open to what the bible has to say?

Originally Posted by juroara

Its pathetic for any christian to deny the spiritual experiences of other christians. Have you even read NDEs from christians? How they experienced a love so deep from God and Jesus words can not express it? How they believe they were sent back, to complete their life mission, the only worthy mission on earth, love?

but whatever, for close-minded religious fools who deny spiritual experiences that are the backbone of every religion - the BIBLE has something to say. My new thread shows how the bible supports reincarnation. Will you be open to what the bible has to say?
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Possibly, but it will take more than being pathetic to get me to change. Without certainty, I will favor the view that it was valid, unless it agrees with me. It's too easy for a hypocrite to fake those things.

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed![/b]

I'll have to pay a visit to that thread of yours.

Originally Posted by Brilliand

I don't trust NDEs. Not everyone who goes to church is a Christian in a sense that would make me trust them, and being about to die can be a strong motive to think you're going to come back to life.
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Following dogmatic practicis to stay out of hell seems like strong motive to accept religions. This obviously ceates a bias. Does this mean that we should disregard everything that is based on a religious viewpoint?