Thread: Inventions ® Did God Create Them?

Ok - out of anonymity for me.

I'm a lifelong inventor. Many of my ideas have been through patent searches and proven unique, and several have gone so far as provisional. I'm part of an LLC that includes a patent attorney and a marketing guy. After four years of this, many thousands of dollars of other people's money, hundreds of hours building and refining prototypes and more, I've grossed - you guessed it - nothing. (Two of these ideas actually got the attention of major players too - a cosmetics idea and a safety device for contractors and truckers.)

Here's what I've learned...

Great ideas are really cool and fun, but there are a ZILLION of them out there. What there isn't a zillion of out there are brilliant, bold marketers.

Ron Popeil, of Ronco fame, has made millions selling pocket fishing poles, bald-headed man spray and lint collectors. There just aren't than many Ron Popeils around. There are lots of us inventors.

In the end, I do all right using a couple of my inventions that give me a competitive edge in certain types of manufacturing, and I am now trying to find ways to apply rather than market the inventions themselves. This saves the incredible expense of patenting and the lawyer's land of trying to protect and enforce a patent. I still hope that one day something I'm doing will catch somebody's attention enough to want to buy me out of one idea or another.

That's my take on it.

Thanks for the response pj.
What exactly is the provisional stage?

You would think the process would go like this:
I have a unique idea that would apply to an already existing game.
The major player, the manufacturer I would think would have a staff just for this reason. I could go directlyto them to see the idea, my hands are clean of any attempt at manufacturing it myself and many of the obstacles you describe.
A large manufacturer is obviously more in position for patents and the like than the average joe.
They could be missing out on so many ideas.

So instead you must submit your idea/ideas to an invention submission corp and go through all this crap.
Why the middle man?
Would it not behoove these larger companies to have a marketer or what ever position you call it. You being in that position at one time know the in and outs.
Am I missing something?

The same goes for the Gov. I have several ideas for them. Shit. I would not trust them though.

I might as well heat my house with my notebooks!

This reminds me of the three minute commercials that have been coming and going on the air for the past 27 years, ever since Ginsu Knives hit the air waves in 1980. I have seen so many cool ideas pop up and die out. All of those commercials have the same pattern, and I could swear it's the same voice every time. They always start out with, "Are you tired of..." while showing very frustrated people who can't get age old devices to work right. One of the products was a tool that, if it had caught on (I'm not sure if it worked that well.) would have replaced the hammer. It was a device you put a nail in and use to push the nail into a wall. I really thought that would be huge because it looked much more convenient than a hammer. The commercial showed people hitting their fingers and having to hammer in awkward positions. The invention got left behind. A few years ago, there was that type of commercial for a hardboiled egg peeler. I should have bought one, but now it's apparently too late. I question how well that actually worked also. But if it did work well, I can see where that would not have been enough. If something doesn't catch on enough quickly enough, the marketing can't get funded, and then the product dies.

Originally Posted by Howietzer

Thanks for the response pj.
What exactly is the provisional stage?

You would think the process would go like this:
I have a unique idea that would apply to an already existing game.
The major player, the manufacturer I would think would have a staff just for this reason. I could go directlyto them to see the idea, my hands are clean of any attempt at manufacturing it myself and many of the obstacles you describe.
A large manufacturer is obviously more in position for patents and the like than the average joe.
They could be missing out on so many ideas.[/b]

A Provisional Patent is a "temporary" patent that will afford the inventor protection under certain conditions only. It is sort of a "half-way" point that only costs a couple grand and gives you a year to get your product to market and generating income before investing the big bucks in a full patent. There are catches to this - many of them... including you being responsible for prior art search. Just because you have a provisional doesn't mean you will be granted a patent in the end, even if your product is successful.

In the "real world", any time you approach a major player with an idea they see you as yet another yokel who is going to try to claim ownership of ideas they probably have already sitting on their shelves or in the R&D stage. Many (most, by my experience,) won't even LOOK at what you have without you signing your entire life away to their trust. Lots of them won't look at anything PERIOD.

The way we've approached it is to try to establish even a very small test market and then hope to license or sell the idea. Again, this approach has netted zip so far - but I have really come to look at this inventing game as very similar to buying lottery tickets. If I come up with enough new ideas, there is a higher probability that one of them may eventually be successful.

I was a consultant for one of those invention companies for a short time. My roll was to sit and listen to presentations and assess them from a technical/manufacturing position, using my experience and expertise in those areas. I didn't enjoy it much, because most of what I ended up doing was poking huge holes in people's hopes. You'd be surprised how few of those who came forward had either viable or original ideas, and how few of what remained could be manufactured without massive investment.

Ah well. On we go - just because we want to!

So much for sponsoring ingenuity.

That is a shame really. I understand the basis for wanting profit. Profit is one thing and greed is another.
It seems greed is what is the cause of bolstering this entire process. Everyone at every level wants a piece of the pie.

Also as you had told me, a patent here in the US today does not protect you from China owning it tomorrow, correct?
That I had never taken into consideration.

If ideas and people inventions were actually supported I am sure to think that many things (any topic) could be much greater.


"Ah well. On we go - just because we want to!"

(Hey Universal.... Did I lure you in with my "Did god create them gimic?

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Originally Posted by Howietzer

(Hey Universal.... Did I lure you in with my "Did god create them gimic? [/b]

Yep. I can&#39;t pass up an issue about God. I was about to say something like, "If an infinitely powerful being existed, everything would already be 100% convenient. Can God not make it that way?" And I was anticipating some never ending circular ballroom dancing with Faken. I love spinning and getting dizzy. But at least I got a chance to talk about the Ginsu style commercials. What do you think is the deal with those inventions? Do you think it was shortly lived marketing that made history forget about them? (But Ginsu is an exception. Those caught on and lasted a long time. I think Cutco might have come along and kicked their asses out of business.)

Originally Posted by Universal

Yep. I can&#39;t pass up an issue about God. I was about to say something like, "If an infinitely powerful being existed, everything would already be 100% convenient. Can God not make it that way?" And I was anticipating some never ending circular ballroom dancing with Faken. I love spinning and getting dizzy. But at least I got a chance to talk about the Ginsu style commercials. What do you think is the deal with those inventions? Do you think it was shortly lived marketing that made history forget about them? (But Ginsu is an exception. Those caught on and lasted a long time. I think Cutco might have come along and kicked their asses out of business.)[/b]

That is a good question.
I to from time to time come across people who have some of those items. Some really DO work. Some are crap.
I guess after the initial television marketing they are on to other advertising techniques. I guess.

But wait If you act now you also get..... ha ha ha

Originally Posted by Howietzer

But wait If you act now you also get..... ha ha ha[/b]

Oh yeah... I forgot about that line that&#39;s in EVERY one of those commercials. The modern day infomercials, which got big in the 90&#39;s and now dominate the ever living Hell out of early a.m. television, are evolutions of those Ginsu type commercials. Most of those use the line about acting now and getting like ten extra things. What is unbelievable is that about half of them are weight loss gimics, most of which are exercise machines that are ridiculously easy and where the actors pretend the machines are the most fun things ever thought of, and it blows my mind that people haven&#39;t figured out yet that all of the stuff is total B.S. If I were a zillionaire, I would get my own infomercial and repeatedly say, "YOU CAN&#39;T BURN OFF FAT WITHOUT EITHER A FIRE OR USING MORE CALORIES THAN YOU TAKE IN&#33;&#33; THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO DO IT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;" The sooner the country figures that out, the sooner I can have stuff to watch on television after 1:00 a.m.

Originally Posted by Universal

Yep. I can&#39;t pass up an issue about God. I was about to say something like, "If an infinitely powerful being existed, everything would already be 100% convenient. Can God not make it that way?" And I was anticipating some never ending circular ballroom dancing with Faken. I love spinning and getting dizzy. But at least I got a chance to talk about the Ginsu style commercials. What do you think is the deal with those inventions? Do you think it was shortly lived marketing that made history forget about them? (But Ginsu is an exception. Those caught on and lasted a long time. I think Cutco might have come along and kicked their asses out of business.)[/b]

I dont see why you had to transform this topic into a religious one - but if you really want an answer, the answer is YES, and such a reality already exists - its called Heaven.

pj--I&#39;m impressed&#33; But what a bummer it&#39;s so hard to get things into production. Partly because those with great ideas can&#39;t get the credit they deserve, and also people can&#39;t benefit from the ideas.

Can&#39;t you hook up with Ron Popeil or something? Of course your stuff probably deserves more than just an infomercial; you can&#39;t really sell things like safety devices there.

(I own a Ronco rotisseri--love it; and a pocket fisherman--totally sucks. Also a set of Cutco knives because my niece joind the Cutco sellling-cult for a while. They&#39;re pretty good actually.)

I wish I had an idea for you. You just need a break.

I did look at this before the God thing was added; I just didn&#39;t have any ideas&#33;

Originally Posted by juroara

I dont see why you had to transform this topic into a religious one - but if you really want an answer, the answer is YES, and such a reality already exists - its called Heaven.[/b]

You must have missed the conversation Howetzer and I were having about how the title of the thread lured me in. I don&#39;t see why you want to turn this thread into a debate. But the point is that creating inconvenience where it is 100% unnecessary is less than totally good.

Originally Posted by Universal

Oh yeah... I forgot about that line that&#39;s in EVERY one of those commercials. The modern day infomercials, which got big in the 90&#39;s and now dominate the ever living Hell out of early a.m. television, are evolutions of those Ginsu type commercials. Most of those use the line about acting now and getting like ten extra things. What is unbelievable is that about half of them are weight loss gimics, most of which are exercise machines that are ridiculously easy and where the actors pretend the machines are the most fun things ever thought of, and it blows my mind that people haven&#39;t figured out yet that all of the stuff is total B.S. If I were a zillionaire, I would get my own infomercial and repeatedly say, "YOU CAN&#39;T BURN OFF FAT WITHOUT EITHER A FIRE OR USING MORE CALORIES THAN YOU TAKE IN&#33;&#33; THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO DO IT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;" The sooner the country figures that out, the sooner I can have stuff to watch on television after 1:00 a.m.[/b]

hahaha "YOU CAN&#39;T BURN OFF FAT WITHOUT EITHER A FIRE OR USING MORE CALORIES THAN YOU TAKE IN&#33;&#33;"
Yaaa. That is some real rocket science there. (But you do have some people that genetically ...slap/shut up. is that you? no&#33; So quite eating&#33;&#33;

I think every home has some type of exercise machine wasting space in a remote closet or corner somewhere.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("juroara")</div>

I dont see why you had to transform this topic into a religious one - but if you really want an answer, the answer is YES, and such a reality already exists - its called Heaven.[/b]

god can&#39;t have ALL the inventions. The devil needs some too. New ways of torture to fill that void of eternity are not easy to come by.

Universal and juroara got me off tract. I forgot why I even was going to post.

As far as Military, Government and such.
1. I know that they will pay &#036;200 dollars for a toilet seat. Halibertan and such corruption holds no limit as to their spending habits
2. To the contrary being as corrupt as the government often is I realize if they want something they could just take it.

So.
I have this really neat idea I came up with about a year ago for an armoured or protected vehicle. Not like Hummers and military machines but more for figure heads and presidents. Limos I guess. It could be implemented in any vehicle really.
I think this would apply aa great deal more to other countries that have nit only many death threats but actual assassination attempts and sometimes successes.

But is any one familiar with he Higgins boat?
This was the odd box shaded boated that turned the tied on the Normandy invasion, helping in shallow waters and navigating a lot of troops close to the beach.
Mr. Higgens took his ides to the government several times. After some failures from the military and some improvements on Higgins&#39;s invention the Gov swallowed their pride and gave the go ahead to began to mass produce these boats.
Interesting story in full--- but I guess what I am saying is, I don&#39;t see me flying to a third world country with a translator and selling them this idea. Or going to my own pompuous Government and submitting the idea either .

*Also because I am sure a lot of these designs are not public information this idea could very well be already in place.

Originally Posted by Howietzer

Universal and juroara got me off tract. I forgot why I even was going to post.

As far as Military, Government and such.
1. I know that they will pay &#036;200 dollars for a toilet seat. Halibertan and such corruption holds no limit as to their spending habits
2. To the contrary being as corrupt as the government often is I realize if they want something they could just take it.
[/b]

I couldn&#39;t afford to sell a toilet seat to the government for a mere &#036;200. Here&#39;s why:

I have to bid for that toilet seat contract. In order to bid, I have to read hundreds and sometimes thousands of pages of contract, written in legalese confounded by governmentese. Many (if not most) of those hundreds or thousands of pages contain references to standards and other documents that I&#39;m either going to have to find a way to locate and purchase copies of or else just assume aren&#39;t going to hurt me.

When I get the contract, I then have to get the government-approved polymer and carbon fiber to start making the seats with. These are only available from one source - a guy in New Mexico who only answers his phone on Sunday mornings.

Once I have materials in hand and the mold made, I need to arrange for and wait on a government inspector to come inspect the tool and materials, assuring the tool is to spec and the materials actually match the certifications. The inspector is a 19 year old with a certificate in government inspection with a very serious persecution complex and the full weight and authority of the military behind him. He hates me just because I own a business and have a woman in my life. He flips open to page 587, paragraph C, clause 2, and points out that I missed the suffix "a" on the shade of gray for the polymer.

The guy in New Mexico will not accept return of the polymer base because it is a custom blend, so I have to eat it. I order the right stuff to suffix a. When it comes in, I arrange for the inspection again.

This time a happy old inspector with one leg shows up, spends ten hours telling me about his very fascinating tours of duty in Korea and &#39;Nam, doesn&#39;t even look at the material or certs and signs off on it. My employees have thoroughly enjoyed their day of nothing to do and no supervision because I have been completely beholden to making sure the old soldier knows I am absolutely enamored with him.

We cast ONE toilet seat.

That seat goes to a 10,000 hour salt spray test, followed by ultrasound, x-ray, tensile and fatigue failure testing. While this is going on, I compile the data for the environmental impact and recycleability reports.

The results, along with cut and mounted sections of our toilet set get shipped to Lawrence Livermore.

Three weeks later, we receive approval to begin production... of the 30 toilet seats I bid for. Because I&#39;m now a week late, the government is demanding "monetary consideration" for a change in contracted delivery time.

Once the seats are completed, the 19 year old kid comes out again. His acne&#39;s worse now than it was last time, and he&#39;s limping slightly. After seven hours, he points out that on page 1029 there is a reference to a standard that refers to a procedure that requires a cleanroom with < 5 micron contamination be used when mixing and pouring the polymer. He asks to see my cleanroom and the government certification of it.

I kill the inspector and go to jail quietly. My employees are all out of a job, and my wife declares bankruptcy.

By the way... are you aware that just last week Halliburton announced the decision to move the company to Dubai?

Now why would they do that, I wonder? And why would all of the voices that have spent years demonizing and threatening the company be screaming "foul" in response?

Halliburton is an amazing entity. There is no other company in the world that has the capabilities or can take the risks they do. They generate billions in revenue, invest in billions in capital and property, and employ a vast array of skilled and unskilled help.

And the U.S. has just managed to drive out YET ANOTHER of the top wealth producers of the world - who moved from a place where they have been threatened, demonized and promised that their profits will be taken if a certain somebody ends up president after &#39;08, to someplace where they are being welcomed with open arms.

I am sorry pj if much of your knowledge has been gained through trial and error. uuug.
But I do appreciate you giving so much of your knowledge and opinions for the sake of others not making the same critical mistakes. Or leading themselves down a dead end path.
I guess it is not the WWII era.

But I will continue to create ......Because I want to&#33; 8)

Originally Posted by pj;

By the way... are you aware that just last week Halliburton announced the decision to move the company to Dubai?

Now why would they do that, I wonder? And why would all of the voices that have spent years demonizing and threatening the company be screaming "foul" in response?

Halliburton is an amazing entity. There is no other company in the world that has the capabilities or can take the risks they do. They generate billions in revenue, invest in billions in capital and property, and employ a vast array of skilled and unskilled help.

And the U.S. has just managed to drive out YET ANOTHER of the top wealth producers of the world - who moved from a place where they have been threatened, demonized and promised that their profits will be taken if a certain somebody ends up president after &#39;08, to someplace where they are being welcomed with open arms.[/b]

No, I was not aware of that. Dubai???
What next? Lockheed and Martin
2008

Originally Posted by Howietzer

But is any one familiar with he Higgins boat?
This was the odd box shaded boated that turned the tied on the Normandy invasion, helping in shallow waters and navigating a lot of troops close to the beach.
Mr. Higgens took his ides to the government several times. After some failures from the military and some improvements on Higgins&#39;s invention the Gov swallowed their pride and gave the go ahead to began to mass produce these boats.
Interesting story in full--- but I guess what I am saying is, I don&#39;t see me flying to a third world country with a translator and selling them this idea. Or going to my own pompuous Government and submitting the idea either .

*Also because I am sure a lot of these designs are not public information this idea could very well be already in place.[/color][/b]

But it may not.

As negative and calloused as I may sound, we need to recognize that there ARE success stories. Don&#39;t give up, man. Build a model of that boat and figure out somebody to send it to. Seriously. All it would take to make you comfortable is for ONE of your ideas to take hold. That knowledge keeps me in it.

By the way - I managed an ordnance contractor for a few years. It almost killed me. I seriously laughed at &#036;200 toilet seats, because we managed to LOSE MONEY selling &#036;400 bleeder valves. I&#39;m talking bleeder valves that you should be able to go buy at the hardware store for maybe &#036;2... but the system makes it completely impossible to estimate what your administrative overhead is. And I&#39;m not kidding about the contracts or the inspectors.

There are companies who have made an art of doing business with the government, but it isn&#39;t for the amateur or casual bidder. Many a successful business has fallen to the siren&#39;s call of government contracting, having no idea what it really involves.

Originally Posted by pj

But it may not.

As negative and calloused as I may sound, we need to recognize that there ARE success stories. Don&#39;t give up, man. Build a model of that boat and figure out somebody to send it to. Seriously. All it would take to make you comfortable is for ONE of your ideas to take hold. That knowledge keeps me in it.[/b]

A friend and I got to discussing some of our ideas. My wife thought we were crazy. We were up to the wee hours of the morning with a marker and a board from win loose or draw. ha ha .

I have now a book that I can date all my ideas and put a comprehensive explanation, a detailed drawing and some other things. If nothing else for my own sake.
Ideas are like dreams.
As I went through this stack of unorganized papers, I was surprised to remember some of the ideas that I myself created and long forgot about.