Thread: Free Will

Originally Posted by Faken

No i am saying we all have to bow down to God and say he is lord no matter who you are.[/b]

Or what? We get to go to hell? I actually might enjoy that.

Seriously, even by some off chance it is discovered that there is a god, I still won't worship him. There's just no point. A loving God wouldn't send people to hell just b/c they don't feel like debasing themselves by bowing to him.

What if you're wrong anyway? You are basically telling everyone to either believe in your god or burn in hell. You are just like a billion other religious zealots who try to scare people into believing their religion. Would a loving god really need to rely on such scare tactics to get people to believe in him? Wouldn't he just want them to believe b/c they know he's a kind god and not an angry deity who, while claiming to love everyone, so eagerly sends them straight to hell for not accepting him.

Originally Posted by Faken

Yes he knows but he could of not stop them anyway cause it there choice not his so he let them decide and it does not matter if he know he has to allowed things to happen cause of others things he created. Last he let the devil deceive them because the devil had the right aslo it was his choice too if God destroy the devil that would be messing with the rights of free will the devil had.
You need to think from all views possible of the scene your only look from your view and you need to see it from all of them.

I not the reason man fall but i not saying i did not do the samething as them by sinning i am no differnt.

I can't wait when everyone bow down before God (Christians , Sinners(Atheists) Devil) and say he is lord and you can't say he not and that will make my day.[/b]

Hahahaha. You are one mentally fucked up Christian right there.

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Besides that, when 'god' made us, he knew exactly how we work, right? Lets say you create a little robot. You know everything about it simple circuits, in the way 'god' knows how we will work. If we build in a little mistake in the robot, that will cause it to trip (only) over things 0.2 inch high -besides that, it is a perfect little robot-. Lets say we then place a 0.2 inch thing in it's path, and the robot trips, does that mean the robot has free will? Does it mean the robot is to blame? Didn't you knew that would happen? If you didn't fix it, didn't you want it to happen, or were you lazy? If god created us, everything and our 'weakness' causing us to fall, then he made the choices for us.

Christian religious dogma and free will don't even fit.

However, in by far most cases, (Christian) religion and logical argument don't go hand in hand, sadly enough.

I don't know what you have learned about Jesus and his Sacrifice (its all a bit confusing) but that's what I think:

Jesus didn't die to save us from our sins (ie now we can sin and nothing happens) - Jesus died to save the animals from our sins.

Before Jesus people thought that sacrificing an animal would wash away trheir sins. Jesus said that I will sacrifice myself, and its such a big sacrifice (not only he was not an animal but he was a god) that nobody has to sacrifice more animals for the sins. But: they have to remind God that there has already been a sacrifice for this sin (Jesus sacrifice) so he can take care of the appropriate payment.

Obviously, not all sins can be redeemed by animal sacrifices so Jesus sacrifice also hasn't saved us from all sin...

Hope this helps (also I want to say that I am not a Christian but I have been taught about christianity and thats how I see it, I think this makes sense...)