Thread: A Picture Of Muhammad

Originally Posted by Universal

It doesn't say something like, "Don't make graven images of that which is under the ocean or that which is in the sky and then worship them." It says something to the effect of, "Don't make graven images of things in the ocean or the sky. On top of that, don't worship them." The points are two separate sentences. If the law says, "Don't kill people. Don't have sex with dead people," that's two rules, not one. It means that murder and necrophilia are both illegal, not just necrophilia. It wouldn't mean, "It's okay to kill people, but don't have sex with them after you do."[/b]

Sigh, I guess out minds just work differnetly, because we see different things from the same text. But I suppose this is what lawers make a living from.

Originally Posted by Universal

To me, the Bible doesn't make sense. I don't expect a passage in the Bible to make sense, so my interpretations are not based on that criterion.[/b]

I think in most cases, the Bible makes some kind of sense, according to its internal logic. Also consider that this is the Commandments, which are the law of God in a nutshell. I would expect Him to make sense at least in this occasion.

Originally Posted by Universal

Why would an infinitely powerful being be jealous of statues in the first place?[/b]

Well, maybe God is trying to talk here in language that man would easily understand, using everyday terminology.
And why would God want people to warship him? Maybe because He thinks it's good for them, because if they follow only his laws, they would also follow his moral, social, and practical laws many of which are quite good ones.

It's written in a certain style. "Jealous", "graven image" - it's a style of speech that is meant to be understood in the way most that are familiar with it will understand it. Not literally to the point of precise definitions. God being a jealous god not meaning an emotion at all but just the statement supporting what is said before it - about not making graven images of Godhood.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Religion is the device that is used by people to blow themselves up. Often those people believe in that device (the Koran), but also in some other stuff (kill jews/Americans). However, I never seen a stronger device to let people blow themselves up then religion, so you could conclude that it is religion for the most part that is making those people blow themselves up, yes.[/b]

True, but really it's the extremists that blow themselves up. The ones that riot in the streets are people I am talking about.

(I don't know how to quote properly, so if someone would be so kind as to give me intructions that would be great )

"
Good grief. I didn't know that. I just Googled the Ten Commandments and saw it for myself. Why didn't they teach me that in Sunday school? So it's a sin for scientists to use diagrams to teach about the layers of the Earth (Maybe because Hell is not taught to be one of the layers?). The fundamentalists are so gung ho in their fight to keep evolution from being taught in schools, but why aren't they screaming against the teachings of volcano physics and marine biology? Illustrating marine life is a sin. Scuba diving videos on TLC must really have some panties in a wad. I wonder what I'll run into next."

That my friends is what you would call taking something way out of context, don't just come to compete assumptions and pretend you know what it means. If you have not read the Bible don't try and pretend you, it just makes you look dumb. That commandment is simply saying to not worship fake idols, (which people would say came from the sky, or beneath the earth) I read so many other wrong things that I'm only going to respond to this one...

Originally Posted by homer2020

(I don't know how to quote properly, so if
That my friends is what you would call taking something way out of context, don't just come to compete assumptions and pretend you know what it means. If you have not read the Bible don't try and pretend you, it just makes you look dumb. That commandment is simply saying to not worship fake idols, (which people would say came from the sky, or beneath the earth) I read so many other wrong things that I'm only going to respond to this one...

You were quoting me, my friend. I have already argued against your above point in several posts. Read what I said, and then come back here and attempt to argue with what I said. If you are too lazy to do that, then you can argue with a summary of what I said... The point about not making graven images and the point about not worshipping them are two different points. They are two different sentences. "Don't do X. Don't do Y with X," does not mean simply, "Don't do Y with X." It also says not to do X. If you have not read the Bible, don't try to pretend you have. It just makes you look dumb. Well, I guess that last comment wasn't very Christian.

I heard a silly Christian say 'oh, that is so out of context again'.Stop using that ill-though-out lie. Lets look at this example:

In Leviticus 20:13 the Holy Bible commands: “If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.”

Oh my. That sounds bad! : ( But it's taken out of context of course! Actually, god isn't a total intolerant dickwad like he appears in this short piece of text!

No. Context doesn't matter. Such a thing should not be in a book used as a guideline for sins. Lets imangen the BEST possible context. It would STILL be bad.

"Ah so, God gave the 3 little children back their toys after a bad man took them. Then, god made rainbows and everyone was happy. One of god's prophets spread the word of love, and everyone was absolutely happy. The prophet was very nice, just like god. Then the prophet said to the children: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death." Then the prophet gave everyone presents and tasty food. And everyone in the country was completely happen and god is like totally nice and good.

Lets say THIS was in the bible.

Would that make it good? Seriously. EXPLAIN how stuff like this can be made WORSE taken out of context. It is just vile by nature.

-

Context really doesn't matter. "It's out of context" is a weak defence by Christians that havn't read the bible.

Or put this into happy-jesus-bunny-land, see if it helps.

Exodus 31:15: “For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.”

In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 the Bible says: “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.”

In Exodus 21:20 the Bible says: “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”

In Leviticus 24:16 the Bible demands: “Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him.”

Mark 3:29
Whosoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.

Those "put to death" ones are from the Old Testament, they are Old Testament Law. And I'm pretty sure those are true laws as you've written them and those verses aren't out of context when you read them.

In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 the Bible says: “Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.”

This might be out of context. This is part of a letter to a church. Try reading the verses around it.

In Exodus 21:20 the Bible says: “If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”

This law was required because humans started slavery. God doesn't stop things like this, that's not how He works. Instead he formed a law or two for them to make it better.

This might be out of context. This is part of a letter to a church. Try reading the verses around it.

Does that matter? Such a vile sentence should not be in a holy book.

This law was required because humans started slavery. God doesn't stop things like this, that's not how He works. Instead he formed a law or two for them to make it better.

YEAH. BEATING SLAVES IS FINE MAN.

Glad we agree. I will be beating my slaves now. God allows me too. (or he should have updated his holy book, that lazy wanker.)

you know that might not be such a bad idea, the problems in the Bible seems to be a big reason for people not wanted to follow Christianity. Since such a large number of Gods children are burning/going to burn in hell because they dont follow Christianity, maybe he himself should come with a new book that applies to modern life, it has been a long time since hes wrote.

Now a days people need to see more obvious miracles, maybe some kind of huge lightening bolt the whole world can see, in the crater is some damn shiny book, shiner then MC's helmet in halo 3!!!

*omfg t3h shine, it burnz!!!"*

just throwing out ideas here.:p

Originally Posted by Neruo

Does that matter? Such a vile sentence should not be in a holy book.

Why not?

YEAH. BEATING SLAVES IS FINE MAN.

No it's not. That's not what the verse said. It didn't say anything was fine or not fine, it just said to punish someone who kills their slave.

Sheesh, I try to offend another religion for once and the Christians jump in and start getting offended anyway.

I don't think they were offended at you, but all the pictures someone posted a couple posts after your first post... they're the ones that jumped in

Don't worry that you don't understand the mind of God (those of you who say the Bible doesn't make sense). None of us do! We aren't meant to do so. After all, "Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is folly with God. For it is written, 'He catches the wise in their craftiness,' and again 'The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.'" 1 Corinthians 3:18-19

God knew from the start that we would all reject Him- that our wisdom and scientific theories (that last, on average, how long?) would cause us to reject the one true God, Jesus Christ, and the Word.

So, as revolutionary as the rejection of God seems to be, it is not. What other religion accepts it as a given that its Savior will be "stricken, smitten, and afflicted"? What religion has a Savior who "...had no form or majesty that we should look at him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not." (from Isaiah 53)

Every other religion elevates a man or manlike creature to the place of a god, and keeps him/her/it there, comfortable in her/his/its status. Christianity is the ONE AND ONLY religion in which God humbles Himself to our status. For us. Out of love. And He did it with the full knowledge that the world would hate Him, heap insults upon Him, and treat him like filth.

THAT is why true Christians do not blow things up when our dearest friend, our Savior, Christ, is defamed, shamed, and rejected. We signed up for this, folks. Christ Himself told us to expect this.

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:1-2

God knew from the start that we would all reject Him- that our wisdom and scientific theories (that last, on average, how long?)

95% of people believe in the flat earth. Yeah, I'm still waiting for the flat earth biblical model to come back.

And He did it with the full knowledge that the world would hate Him, heap insults upon Him, and treat him like filth.

95% of people believe in god.

What other religion accepts it as a given that its Savior will be "stricken, smitten, and afflicted"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6YRO...related&search= well theirs 3 more.

The bible is not history. Their is no historical evidence for moses, their was no jewish slaves and their was no evidence for people walking the around the red sea and the desert for 40years. Jesus has even more historical problems http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAPIngDjJVo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JMiAwe6TA...elated&search=
good video.

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

Why not?
No it's not. That's not what the verse said. It didn't say anything was fine or not fine, it just said to punish someone who kills their slave.

... and not to punish a slave owner whose slave dies over a few days as a result of a beating by the owner, jusified by how the slave is the property of his owner. That is what the passage flat out says. Am I missising something?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

... and not to punish a slave owner whose slave dies over a few days as a result of a beating by the owner, jusified by how the slave is the property of his owner. That is what the passage flat out says. Am I missising something?

Yeah, that's what it says.

Just don't think God likes slavery. He doesn't. He just made that law to make slavery better. Even at least a few decades ago, it was ok for parents and schoolteachers to beat their kids, and schoolteachers, right?

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

Yeah, that's what it says.

Just don't think God likes slavery. He doesn't. He just made that law to make slavery better. Even at least a few decades ago, it was ok for parents and schoolteachers to beat their kids, and schoolteachers, right?

So he made atom bombs and everything else to make killing better, since he can't stop it. Quite a good idea, if you can't stop them, make it worse.

By the way, I think Jesus would laugh at those "lol Jesus" pictures.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

So he made atom bombs and everything else to make killing better, since he can't stop it. Quite a good idea, if you can't stop them, make it worse.

We made atom bombs...

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

We made atom bombs...

We made the Bible.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

We made the Bible.

We also made pizza!

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

We made atom bombs...

thankyou man! You know i hate it when people always say God implanted ideas in our heads, like when people say God put the ideaof electricity or God helped that surgeon cure that guy, we did it ourselfs!

Originally Posted by Jeremysr

Yeah, that's what it says.

Just don't think God likes slavery. He doesn't. He just made that law to make slavery better. Even at least a few decades ago, it was ok for parents and schoolteachers to beat their kids, and schoolteachers, right?

Spanking is still legal for parents and for teachers who have parental permission, but beating kids has always been illegal here.

If God had thrown in a passage saying, "Slave owning is an abomination, and killing a slave is even more of one," it would have gotten that slavery situation improvement ball rolling. Calling homosexuality an abomination has Christians going bonkers, so calling slavery the same thing would have been worth a whole lot more than calling slaves the "property" of their owners and saying there is no punishment for giving them slow deaths from beatings. God created a pretty long list of things he said he is against in the Bible. Slavery, on the other hand, was justified.

Originally Posted by wendylove

95% of people believe in the flat earth. Yeah, I'm still waiting for the flat earth biblical model to come back.

95% of people believe in god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6YRO...related&search= well theirs 3 more.

The bible is not history. Their is no historical evidence for moses, their was no jewish slaves and their was no evidence for people walking the around the red sea and the desert for 40years. Jesus has even more historical problems http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAPIngDjJVo
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JMiAwe6TA...elated&search=
good video.

I am curious as to where you derive your statistics, Wendylove. But to give you the benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument...95% of people SAY that they believe in a "god" Wendy. This is not the same thing. My God, as I continue learning to know Him through prayer, sacrament, and dedicated study of His inerrent Word, is not the the god that the majority of people say that they believe in and worship. How do I know this?Because
THE God condemns certain things that I know for a FACT "95% of people" do NOT condemn.
If you DO believe the Triune God is omnicient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, then you do not pick and choose from His commandments. You do not live as "95% of people" in our world live. You are a Christian. You study His inerrent Word, and do your best (which is VERY poor, as we are but human) to live as a "little Christ". Tell me, Wendylove, how many people do you know like that? People who live according to God's Word, even when it goes against human desire, impulse, and hedonistic cravings? I'm relatively certain that it is not "95% of people". But I can understand your confusion. Statistics measure response, not truth. And it is easy to say a thing, yes? Not so easy to live it.

"'Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?" And then will I declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness."' Matthew 7:21-23

It is a sad truth that there are many who falsely claim (ignorantly or knowingly) to know God, to love Him and follow Him. But He Himself has said that answering "yes, He is God" to a surveyor does not quite cut it.

As far as the "Biblical" teaching that the earth is flat... If you are going to claim that a teaching is from the Word of God, please quote Scripture to me. That is not a teaching of the Bible. If you would like a good explanation of Creationism in scientific terms, I urge you to read "The Case for a Creator" by
Lee Strobel. He, too, was far too intelligent to buy into all that Christian crap (opiate for the masses!) so he did his own research. See what he found...

"For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, so that no human being might boast in the presence of God." 1 Corinthians 1:26-27

To Wendylove,

My second reply is in regards to the "sources" you cited in your rebuttal. For those who did not/ cannot access them, they are all three bits of YouTube video.

I am not certain if you have ever written a scholarly paper before. You cannot take any random person's opinions and use them as truth. You must be sure that they are truly credible. I was concerned about the claims regarding Scripture that I saw quoted in your videos, and so I looked them up.

Hebrews 8:4 was terribly misquoted. It does not indicate that "If Jesus had been on earth, he would not even have been a priest" as your Youtube video indicates. Rather, it states, "Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law." This IS entirely true! Jesus was not a priest like the priests of that time. He did not stay away from "sinners" but rather ate with them, forgave them, and loved them. Jesus did not place Himself above the average Jew
(representative as ALL OF US- God's chosen people), as priests of that time did. Rather, He humbled Himself before all mankind. There is even a thought among Biblical scholars (NOT proven by the Bible, mind you!) that perhaps Judas himself was aware and infuriated by this very fact- Jesus was NOT a priest. Not by the Jewish standards of the day. The MOST IMPORTANT point that Paul was making here is this- "gifts according to the law" were no longer necessary! Why? The death of Jesus made atonement a moot point!
Jesus died in our stead (He WAS atonement!). He took upon Himself the debt of ALL mankind. Therefore, it would be redundant to offer any further sin offering to God. THIS is why Jesus would not act a "a priest" as Paul knew priests. After His death on the cross and subsequent resurrection, there was no longer be ANY need for those actions.

The Jews looked for a POLITICAL Messiah; one who would deliver them from the oppression of Roman rule. Jesus, was not that. NOR was He the priest that the Sadducees and Pharisees expected the Messiah to be. He did not raise Himself above the people. He is not some glorified hero (as are Dionysus, Hercules, etc). Rather He did it for us, for me, for you.

"It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many." Matthew 20:26-27

As for the rest of the claims, I am unable to refute them because for some reason, the "experts" in the Youtube videos were unable to tell us the original sources of their information. If you do eventually come across a reliable source that I will be able to check, be assured that I will do so, and will have a response ready.

"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry."
2 Timothy 4:2-5

This, Wendylove, is from the letter that PAUL, the man who your Youtube videos claim knew not Christ, wrote to the young preacher Timothy in order to encourage him. This is nothing new.

D