A definition of a fake/untrue/hypocritical christian? I wonder what it is...

[Lucid_boy]

What would you define a fake/untrue christian as being like??? I only wonder so as to keep myself from seeming like one.

[Silvanus350]

What would you define a fake/untrue christian as being like??? I only wonder so as to keep myself from seeming like one. I don't have much respect for this forum, when you consider what goes on here. Hell, I'm only browsing the place because it's 11 p.m. where I live and I don't want to try having a lucid dream yet. That being said, I feel like answering your question. To the best of my ability, of course. It's simply my opinion, it could be very wrong or misguided, but you can have it since you asked. It follows: "If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." ~ 1 John 1:6 My definition is fairly simple. Those who claim to be Christian, but do not act accordingly, are not what they claim to be. At the most, of course. They may also be misguided or even having a bad day, but I think you are sharp enough to catch my meaning. There are many directions you can take this, but I have answered your question.

[jaasum]

Ones that don't love God with all their heart, and then don't love their neighbors as themselves. If we esteem things above God then we obviously don't love Him with our whole heart. And if we treat others like we wouldn't treat ourselves then we are missing what practicing Christianity (in the literal term of the word) is like. I haven't achieved either of these, I try and strive towards them but fall short. You can tell when Christians are not doing this, such as when they become judgmental, place themselves above others, hate, condemn, become materialistic ect.

[Silvanus350]

And if we treat others like we wouldn't treat ourselves then we are missing what practicing Christianity (in the literal term of the word) is like. But what if that person is a masochist? This is a joke, just so y'know.

[jaasum]

I understand the joke, but there is a serious answer to this question. I can only state it from experience. This last year I watched a good friend of mine literally loose his mind. He needed professional help and was becoming violent and disturbed. He was in a mental hospital for a brief time and they diagnosed him with psychosis (which is basically every mental disorder) he came to our house looking for a place to stay until he "figured things out". However he has been doing this for a long while and we all agreed that he was simply avoiding the fact that he needed to face reality. We were going to let him stay for a few days, but that very night he started to loose it again and we had to turn him away. It was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life but I honestly think it was loving him as myself, because if I was in his situation I knew the best thing for me was would be to leave and stop avoiding my problems. I don't cry very often but that night I did because I felt his pain and I knew the best thing, the "loving my neighbor as myself" ,was to tell him to leave. So in cases such as what you are talking about, the I feel the best thing is to give them the help they need, because if you were in that situation that is truly what you would want, healing from your problems. It's hard, and it goes against the common hospitality but it still works. This day I don't know where he is, he moved away and I lost contact with him. I pray for him and hope the very best. I also understand that sometimes life is a process and in order for change some people have to hit rock bottom. We tried to help him for months and months and it only made him worse so the only option was to put him on his own. We sent him to some friends in another city and then lost contact.

[Silvanus350]

I understand the joke, but there is a serious answer to this question. The joke is just something I throw out when I see the Golden Rule, I can see the gravity of such a situation. My own answer, though I cannot draw on something as valuable as personal experience, would be to help them first. I don't think you should lay something like the Golden Rule on anyone dealing with masochism, or similar problems.

[jaasum]

What I learned is that sometimes helping someone goes beyond the obvious. I tried first, but letting my friend stay at my house was NOT helping him. So the much harder thing to do but what I felt to be the right thing was to turn them away. As far as the golden rule applying to people with self-destructive behaviors I think deep down they really want help. For example, someone who is a sex addict would see the golden rule and be like "I like to fuck! So I should fuck everyone! Do unto others right?" But I see relationship-less sex as a cry for help to be honest. Most girls in porn are there as a result of molestation, so sex would be something deep down (no pun intended) they really want to avoid.

[Rainman]

Hypocritical Christians.

[Original Poster]

I would say a fake Christian is all of the following: One who worships the symbols such as the cross abd traditions but does not follow the morals. On that just believes what they hear and doesn't confirm it with their hearts and reasoning. One that believes that you have to accept Jesus dies gor your sins, specifically, not that you have to accept his universal message to give love.

[Silvanus350]

One that believes that you have to accept Jesus dies gor your sins, specifically, not that you have to accept his universal message to give love. I don't quite get what you're saying here Doomed. Would you please clarify?

[Bearsy]

Coming home from church and 15 minutes later being caught in the bathroom smoking a rock of crack by your son. :sadface:

[Original Poster]

Well, John 3:16 is what I'm getting at, a completely empty sentence that hold the whole weight of christianity to some christians, mostly fundamentalists. The important thing to take from the Bible is the importance of being loving and treating life respectfully. I mean, basically people that repeat John 3:16 but have no idea what it means to follow that.

[jaasum]

Christianity doesn't understand that verse if they believe in the hell that they do.

[Silvanus350]

Well, John 3:16 is what I'm getting at, a completely empty sentence that hold the whole weight of Christianity to some Christians, mostly fundamentalists. The important thing to take from the Bible is the importance of being loving and treating life respectfully. I mean, basically people that repeat John 3:16 but have no idea what it means to follow that. I see, thanks. From the way I was looking at it, I thought you'd said that hypocritical Christians are those who believe that Christ died for their sins. That threw me for a loop. Christianity doesn't understand that verse if they believe in the hell that they do.

[jaasum]

So if the goal of God when sending Christ was to save all men from perishing, then He failed.

[Silvanus350]

So if the goal of God when sending Christ was to save all men from perishing, then He failed. If by that you mean that he was supposed to yank everyone out of Hell and shut the place down, no, I don't think that was ever the plan.

[jaasum]

I don't think the Christian depiction of Hell was ever his plan, I think it is something the collective imagination of Christianity has produced. A belief in hell is by default a belief that the majority of mankind will enter into hell and therefore "satan" drags more souls to the lake of fire with him than God gets in heaven, therefore God's plan of sending Christ to the world to save it "from hell" failed. His blood was shed for the minority. OR you can start to really study hell and where it originates in Christianity and you will notice that God is in a lot more control than Christianity seems to believe He is. I do belief there is a place that is not heaven, but I don't think it is a fiery pit where you are tortured by demons. I also don't think it is eternal. I think of it like this: When man fell in the garden we lost eternal life, we entered into death. The wages of sin is death. When we die, we stay dead. We stay dead, we stay in this stage of life. Hell is simply the continuation of this, maybe a lot worse than this life, but not some realm of fiery torture. I think it could be very much like this life, maybe a continuation of it, something like the end of Requiem for a Dream. I think this because of what death was like in the OT and what I believe the was the reason for God to separate us from Himself in the first place. I think the reason was that man needed to be separated from God in order to understand God. If you die without God you will continue in this state of being until you understand what His plan for you is. Death and the grave is part of His plan for people. Where Christ comes in is that He died to bring us Eternal life. It reverses this fallen state of man. The bible clearly says that no man comes unto Christ unless he is called by the Father. God ordained some to receive Christ in this life since the dawn of time, our reward is skipping the death after life and receiving eternal life immediately. This is why the bible talks about having heaven on earth. It happens now! We have been spared and washed clean before we had to endure the cleansing process of hell! We have entered eternal life already. Where as everyone else is still suffering the wages of sin, or sin has been wiped clean. The soul in hell are there until they receive this eternal life, and for some it may take a hypothetical eternity, but eventually all will come to the knowledge of Christ as God intended. Now, before I get shoved on the bandwagon that I believe I am 100% right, I don't think so. And I begin to think that "Accepting Christ" can be something entirely different for people. Perhaps by accepting Christ I have done what "God the Father" has planned for me, and perhaps a Buddhist or someone else could reach the same plan from "God the Father" through a different plan. We are all heading to the same place and God is always working in everyone the same way, just through different paths. Some people will find salvation after years in "hell" or after years of "reincarnation" But my point is, an eternal hell shows a failed God, a God that lost to his adversary "the devil" or full well knew that when He created mankind the majority would be locked away forever in a fiery endless torture. But God being the belligerent fellowship hungry being He is found in worth it. I don't believe in that, and no, not because it makes me feel better not to, because I literally don't think this is what the bible says about God, hell, heaven ect. God didn't "so love the world" that He sent his only begotten son to save some people in the world while the rest burn in hell for all eternity because of their ignorance or confusion about His son. God doesn't "desire that none shall perish" knowing full well that most will. God gets what He wants, because who can resist the will of God? I can go into more depth and reasoning if you have more questions.

[Original Poster]

Funny you mentioned buddhist could get to same path as I was just realizing "Hm, a christian that symbolically has a true understanding" What you call the father, I call something else because to me God is just like me, thrust into existence with no knowledge of where he came from or what to do. Materialism causes people to get wrapped in a cycle. They get so wound up in this world they ignorantly doom themselves to suffering in the next existence. God attempted to stop that, Christ was supposed to rejuvinate people's spirituality and he did overtime despite all the bloodshed and corruption that followed. It's one love, we all need to work together to get the sufferers out of hell, the ghosts to move on, and everyone to move forward, you know. The two of us only really disagree on what forward is but since we both agree it's a good thing that doesn't really matter.

[jaasum]

The internet makes it harder for people to convey concepts. We disagree on the details, but if we talked enough I am sure we would completely agree on the overall concepts.