Thread: my beliefs...and yours discussed

Originally Posted by O'nus

Are we not avoiding the "truth" by attributing a supernatural being that can fill-in-the gap to any flaws in a theory.
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Well thats a very good point. I think that’s where some free will comes in and you have that choice based on what you know that you can choose that hey, maybe there is something out there that we cannot explain. Or you can say we are hear because this event happened then this event then this event and so on. Yes there is allot of scientific facts that go with the theory of a non supernatural being. But at the same time there are millions of things that we can't explain on our own earth, our own inhabitants that we have inhabited for a lengthy period of time. With that said. just think of all the things that we won't be able to explain in our universe like how we came to be. I don't think there will be a point intime when we will know all the things that the world or the milky way or the universe has to hold. Science limits us

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

Well thats a very good point. I think that’s where some free will comes in and you have that choice based on what you know that you can choose that hey, maybe there is something out there that we cannot explain. Or you can say we are hear because this event happened then this event then this event and so on. Yes there is allot of scientific facts that go with the theory of a non supernatural being. But at the same time there are millions of things that we can't explain on our own earth, our own inhabitants that we have inhabited for a lengthy period of time. With that said. just think of all the things that we won't be able to explain in our universe like how we came to be. I don't think there will be a point intime when we will know all the things that the world or the milky way or the universe has to hold. Science limits us

Very interesting that you end it on a contradictory point.

Theism; explaining events, not understood through empirical means, via a supernatural being.

Agnosticism; asserting that we can never know how the nature functions. This sounds like what you are more inclined to.

Science; understanding the universe and nature through empirical and systematically observable means. Where is the limitation here...?
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Science: Granite forms over billions of years.
Truth: We have found granite that formed in under 7 seconds
Logic

Science can't explain everything, and everyything outside of which science can't explain we try to ignore because of the fact that we might find truth.

They did a big public case aboutt this that went to court about teaching evelolution in class. The granite example was used for anti-evelution. The are tones of flaws that which science can't explain in evelution. Natrual selection, DNA can't change, species without a link,xx and xy chromozones, anti matter.

Science for right now limits our ability to know the truth and hinders are path along the way.

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

Im just going to jump in and give a little analogy. God is like oxygen, You can't see it, hear it, feel it, smell it, taste it, But you know it's there.

...How do we know it's there?

Perhaps because it has mass, volume, and can exert pressures on things?

There is no way to 'measure' or 'detect' this 'god' thing. It's unfalsifiable.

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

Science for right now limits our ability to know the truth and hinders are path along the way.

Science is imperfect, and there are things which science cannot explain. However, there is no other way to learn of the truth. What methods do you recommend we resort to? Consulting the bible or something? There is simply no other way.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

...How do we know it's there?

Perhaps because it has mass, volume, and can exert pressures on things?

There is no way to 'measure' or 'detect' this 'god' thing. It's unfalsifiable..

This wasn't ment to be taken literally, it was ment to be recieved with an open mind to the fact that we have not seen God but people still think/know he is here because of "miracles" and other phenomena.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

...Science is imperfect, and there are things which science cannot explain. However, there is no other way to learn of the truth. What methods do you recommend we resort to? Consulting the bible or something? There is simply no other way.

Consulting the bible to pin point accuracy is not a good way t go about living. Certainly with more archelogical artifacts that are genuine we can learn from. i find that we can learn millions of things just by looking at a painting by egyptians. thats not science is it? I do belive though that all religions need science but science does not need religion. If God really did put the plague's on egypt do you think it was just god throwin magical powers on the earth and this stuff happend? I don't think so. I think that God triggered these events by conflicting with nature( A good documentry to watch on this is Exodus decoded). In the bible it also says that people lived to be well over 200 years old. Now you might be thinking WTF? but before the great floodwhich majority of science do belive that teir was a great flood that happend round that same time period as stated in the bible) that the oxygen level was three times as it is today. So "scientist" did studies and but the common house hold fly in an inriched oxygenated dome. He live 3 times as long as his normal life span. To conclude, i think their is another way to learn the truth and it's genuine archeology.

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

i find that we can learn millions of things just by looking at a painting by egyptians. thats not science is it?

Yes it is.


Science; May I reiterate; is not simply a set of beliefs and doctrines.

It is a process for acquiring documented knowledge.


So that is science.





Please change your avatar. It hurts.

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

Consulting the bible to pin point accuracy is not a good way t go about living. Certainly with more archelogical artifacts that are genuine we can learn from. i find that we can learn millions of things just by looking at a painting by egyptians. thats not science is it? I do belive though that all religions need science but science does not need religion. If God really did put the plague's on egypt do you think it was just god throwin magical powers on the earth and this stuff happend? I don't think so. I think that God triggered these events by conflicting with nature( A good documentry to watch on this is Exodus decoded). In the bible it also says that people lived to be well over 200 years old. Now you might be thinking WTF? but before the great floodwhich majority of science do belive that teir was a great flood that happend round that same time period as stated in the bible) that the oxygen level was three times as it is today. So "scientist" did studies and but the common house hold fly in an inriched oxygenated dome. He live 3 times as long as his normal life span. To conclude, i think their is another way to learn the truth and it's genuine archeology.

Oh, and

"Proponents of Flood geology contend that the myths from various cultures are folk memories of an historical global deluge.

Flood geology is not accepted by geologists, both Christian and non-Christian, who consider it a form of pseudoscience.

At one time even prominent workers in Biblical archaeology were willing to argue for a historical worldwide flood, but that view is no longer widely held."




Next time use fact.

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/....ap/index.html

All your beliefs are wrong.

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/....ap/index.html

There is a shaky theory that there was a large flood in some parts of the middle east near the black sea.


Oh, ok, world encompassing "great flood", God, and 200 year old people then.

I see where your comming from(i think). but please expand more so i can get a better detailed image. and i can elobertae on my beliefs.

What are your beliefs?

That God exists, there was a world encompassing flood, and people used to live for 200 years?

If that is the case: lol.


Editz: I'm going to sleep. I'll reply tomorrow; please outline what you believe and your justification in doing so. kthxbi.

God exsist IMO. world encumpasing flood, no. Major flood through the middle east yes which was thought to be the whole world back then, likely. enriched oxygen back then to prolong life periods,likely. Tests have been done to plants and animals in an oxygen enriched enviorment and they have gotten alot bigger and alot longer life spands, true.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Science is imperfect, and there are things which science cannot explain. However, there is no other way to learn of the truth. What methods do you recommend we resort to? Consulting the bible or something? There is simply no other way.

The problem with science, is that it can only help you discover what you can already imagine as possible. In order to use scientific method you must start with a hypothesis, and so you must be able to formulate a 'belief' before finding any concrete evidence.

How then are we to discover the things that we cannot yet imagine? Science requires that you at least know the question, but there are infinite answers out there whose questions we can't even grasp. There are people who believe they have another way to discover these things, and some of them do it through contemplative and intuitive religious inquiry.

Don't knock it till ya try it, my friend. I've made that mistake before and it set me back significantly.

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

Science: Granite forms over billions of years.
Truth: We have found granite that formed in under 7 seconds
Logic

Science can't explain everything, and everyything outside of which science can't explain we try to ignore because of the fact that we might find truth.

They did a big public case aboutt this that went to court about teaching evelolution in class. The granite example was used for anti-evelution. The are tones of flaws that which science can't explain in evelution. Natrual selection, DNA can't change, species without a link,xx and xy chromozones, anti matter.

Science for right now limits our ability to know the truth and hinders are path along the way.

It is amazing how this is entirely contradictory.

Firstly, what process was used to show that granite forms under 7 seconds? You imply that it was not science that founded this so that makes me very curious to ask what did then? Comparatively, I would like to see the dates of the sources in use.

More importantly, even if you are theist, you can hold science as a means to understanding, not limitation. As long as you have to correct persepctive of science, there is no limitations involved:
- What I am proposing: science as a means of empirical understanding
- What you seem to be proposing: science, and its empirical understanding, as isolation of understanding.

Whereas theism actually attributes the flaws in understanding with a supernatural being and requires alternative hypothesis to prove otherwise rather than pursue facticity.
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Originally Posted by O'nus

It is amazing how this is entirely contradictory.

Firstly, what process was used to show that granite forms under 7 seconds? You imply that it was not science that founded this so that makes me very curious to ask what did then? Comparatively, I would like to see the dates of the sources in use. ~

http://www.halos.com/
http://evolution-facts.org/Ev-V1/1evlch05a.htm

Say what you want.

Originally Posted by O'nus

More importantly, even if you are theist, you can hold science as a means to understanding, not limitation. As long as you have to correct persepctive of science, there is no limitations involved:
- What I am proposing: science as a means of empirical understanding
- What you seem to be proposing: science, and its empirical understanding, as isolation of understanding.

Whereas theism actually attributes the flaws in understanding with a supernatural being and requires alternative hypothesis to prove otherwise rather than pursue facticity.
~

You can pursue a fact all you want, thats all fine an dandy. Are you saying that pursuing a hypothesis is irational?

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

http://www.halos.com/
http://evolution-facts.org/Ev-V1/1evlch05a.htm

Say what you want.

Just to make clear, I am saying that the process being used in showing this granite comparison is utilizing scientific method. (And no worries, there is no use in arguing the credibility issue, it is not the point here).

You can pursue a fact all you want, thats all fine an dandy. Are you saying that pursuing a hypothesis is irational?

I am really not sure how you got this. I am saying the reverse; pursuing a hypothesis is rational and clarifying facts is rational with residual edification.
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Originally Posted by O'nus

Just to make clear, I am saying that the process being used in showing this granite comparison is utilizing scientific method. (And no worries, there is no use in arguing the credibility issue, it is not the point here).



I am really not sure how you got this. I am saying the reverse; pursuing a hypothesis is rational and clarifying facts is rational with residual edification.
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I just read over yur profile and i can see you are very educated on this topic.

I just want to say that yes i belive in God and i belive he created the heavens and the earth.I don't think i personally need science to explain this because i havefaith to reasure my beliefs. Some people don't take that fact that God simply created everything and by all means thats good, you don't want to belive in everything you hear. Some people need science to reasure them that a creator created and is or is not evident in our everyday lives. i know im getting a little off topic here but, matter cannot be created or destoyed it can only be transferd from what is tought E=mc2. So where do we go when we die? were matter arnt we? How were we created? i personally think Heaven and God. But im just snow ballin hear. To me personlly thier are to many questions that science has yet to answear and most likely never will.

Originally Posted by Riot Maker

I just read over yur profile and i can see you are very educated on this topic.

I just want to say that yes i belive in God and i belive he created the heavens and the earth.I don't think i personally need science to explain this because i havefaith to reasure my beliefs. Some people don't take that fact that God simply created everything and by all means thats good, you don't want to belive in everything you hear. Some people need science to reasure them that a creator created and is or is not evident in our everyday lives. i know im getting a little off topic here but, matter cannot be created or destoyed it can only be transferd from what is tought E=mc2. So where do we go when we die? were matter arnt we? How were we created? i personally think Heaven and God. But im just snow ballin hear. To me personlly thier are to many questions that science has yet to answear and most likely never will.

You see, you just did what I am referring to; because science cannot answer everything (and admits so), you added supernatural implications.

Transference of energy is most likely just to the worms in the ground you rot in. Sorry to say this but it is just the most likely scenario when considering the thermodynamics of our body. I will get back to this after I study a bit of quantum physics. (What I am saying here is that this is just a conjecture so, while I expect you want to respond to this, do not fret about it - I am still forming my opinion in regards to the soul).

Are you implying that science is not necessary if you are a theist? What is the difference then between what you are saying and what the people of antiquity believed when they explained every single act to a God (ie. sun god, ocean gods, etc.)
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