Thread: What You All Must Understand (Believers and Non Believers)

Lol Patience, completely out of topic, but you don't have to prove anyhting to anyone. Maybe Tweak is just too used to dealing with people who pretend to be girls on the Internet. Maybe he hasn't seen nice and caring people as you before

What do her sex, age at DV andpost count have to do with the discussion anyway? Unless you're aiming at a personal attack here.

Well Good, because I will.

OH DON'T THINK I WON'T!! haha

Yeah I was deiniftely getting the feeling of a personal attack there, but either way, he never upset me or anything haha.

Just reminds me of an old wanted -shrugs-.

Kromoh I [heart] you ^_^.
You always make me feel so warm and fuzzy inside haha.

-patience

. . .

Originally Posted by pj

. . .

Don't be in fear. I'll protect you all!

._. someone kill me.

Originally Posted by yay

You're just another example for the OP. I think he believes that if you don't believe in God, then you'll just be an immoral asshole. I try to be nice or at least not an asshole to prove that you don't need God to be generous and nice.

but you don't care about anything so fuck it. I care though. I can't stand assholes. I'd expect your behavior from an American, not someone from a country that actually has common sense. but I guess you'll find assholes everywhere. If you're not here to try to contribute to the community and make it better, then what are you trying to do? make it worse?

trolling for fun is the same as doing it for kicks, or make yourself feel good. Doing something fun is pleasure, and pleasure makes you feel good.

Do you not care about hurting anyone in general? Or just on the internet because you know you can get away with it? Either way that's pretty cold hearted of you. I know it's just my opinion though, and you don't care.

I don't find being an asshole fun. It makes me feel close-minded like the christains who believe everything they do is right. I do find being nice fun though. It makes me feel good that I can state my opinions without having to be mean about it.

What would you rather have, a world full of assholes who don't care, or nice caring people who try to help each other?

You just further prove that there can't be a world where people are kind, because there will always be assholes to ruin it.

I am another example for the OP, eh? And that bothers me how, exactly?

And while I am flattered you think idiots are from America rather than from the Netherlands (??, no logic there, there are assholes everywhere), I must say.. I am also flattered to have shown you the opposite.

No, I am not trying to make the thread worse. I am not trying to do anything. And once more, how often am I going to have to repeat it? No, I do not care about hurting people's feelings on the internet. Sue me. Real life is different, because those are people you're bound to see more often - people you might end up with as friends. I, for one, do not care about internet friends.

One last thing: you're getting carried away. Stop taking stuff so seriously.

Originally Posted by PatienceMarie

so now I have to justify that that is actually me? O_o

Even though there are people here who have chatted with me on webcam before?

You make no sense you silly goose.

Oh and yay.... I agree with you .
World needs more people as nice as you <3

-patience

I'm going to keep this one short: learn the internets.

Completely out of topic: Tweak, if you know people to the level of pretending they're female while they're not, then please keep it to yourself. I sincerely find this a very mature community. What does her sex have to do with anything anyway? Grow up, really.

oh wow guys hi lol. This topic is on the front page... pple keep this clean please

Seeing as this debate is about the Christian God (and not the many others I also don;t believe in, like Thor or Ra) I'll address my issues with Christianity:

If god is perfect - then how could he create something imperfect?
If god is not perfect - then how is he god?

The bible essentially says this:

God is perfect and all knowing....

God made man.

Man is imperfect (how can a perfect god make something imperfect, without that being what he wanted?)

God punishes man for the mistake he as god made (as he created man imperfect)

God turns into a man, lets himself get killed (so as god that's suicide - although god is eternal so cannot die, so it's kind of pointless and meaningless) so that he can forgive us for the mistake he made.

Then, unless we are we thank him and accept him for his meaningless action and ask for forgivness (for him making us imperfect) - he'll send us to hell for eternity.

The last point brings up another issue i have with Christianity:
How could any truely good person, live eternally knowing that there are billions suffereing eternally? wouldn't that put a really bad taste in your mouth whilst in Heaven (if you have the slightest bit of compasion or goodness in you?)

Shun the non beliver

Why did you drag out a year old thread to make a point that most likely has already been said in this thread and even if not, is still bland and unoriginal?

*necro*
"I disagree"

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Why did you drag out a year old thread to make a point that most likely has already been said in this thread and even if not, is still bland and unoriginal?

*necro*
"I disagree"

Because forums are here for having discussions and making points... and I don't own a timemachine yet.

Spiritofthewolf, you are the reason people dislike Christians. Had you been a sane one who doesn't think everything is one giant God Vs Satan battle maybe you wouldn't come off as a nonsensical theist.

No one is evil or influenced by Satan because they don't buy into Christian Doctrine and dogma.

Christian views like this undue the oneness in all of us, makes it US vs THEM. It's foolish, and disgusting.

If your Christian God is so powerful how can someone constantly be at war with him that he can't crush?

Satan is like Sephiroth. He's badass, but his intentions don't match up with logic.

Since this thread has been ressurected I guess I can throw in my 2 cents:

I'm christian

I don't really hate folks
The great majority of my friends are athiests.

right now I focus on 2 things jesus said: Love thy neighbor as thyself; Do not judge others

To what spaceexplorer said: Why does perfect have to make perfect.
Not saying anyone is wrong, I've actually excepted the fact that I may be wrong.

and yes spiritofwolves: christians like you give us all a bad name.
I'm sorry to say that and it also makes me look bad. so tack what I just said to me as a person and not my religion

Originally Posted by doctor

To what spaceexplorer said: Why does perfect have to make perfect.
Not saying anyone is wrong, I've actually excepted the fact that I may be wrong.

Well I suppose it's because perfect means, without error, spotless.
So for something (God) that is both Perfect and All knowing...
An all knowing perfection, would not be able to create something it had not decided to create. So either god created man imperfect on purpose, or made a mistake. Either answer is disturbing.
Either God set us up for his own twisted amusment.
Or God isn't all powerful, and so isn't God.

Do you see what I mean?

There is the logical answer that God created freewill, and made free will outside of his control. HOWEVER, if that is the case, then God would not be able to see the future of humanity, because he would have lost his power to know what is to come... in which case Revelations and other biblical predictions would be impossible.

Whichever way you turn, there is a contradiction.

Either God isn't God.
God isn't nice.
Or The word of God (bible) is wrong.

Still there is that other question, which I'd appreciate if you could answer as a Christian:

If you find yourself in Heaven, for eternity, as a good person, won't it bother you that billions will be suffering for eternity in hell? And dosn't that stop heaven being heaven? (unless you don't care for others... which is one of the criteria for getting into heaven in the first place!)

Actually I'm glad that you asked that question it made me smile

I can see where you come from on the perfection thing and it will require some thought, although I won't lose my beliefs on it (sorry the way I phrased that made it sound like you wanted me to lose my religion. I really try to edge away from that as much as possible)

To the end question, there are a couple of options:
1: I don't remember in what I've read, of jesus talking about hell. If anyone has a verse, feel free to bring it up. Maybe with that I can deny its existance?

2: History channel did an interesting documentary on the bible and when the books that were chosen to be in the bible were chosen, it talked of one book left out where jesus suggest that everyone will be let out of hell eventually. So happy ending?

3. I'd ask faculty what I could do about said problem.

4. My own oppinion is that most folks will actually go to heaven. Talking about the ppl who are at least generally nice. As in had at least one friend that they're nice to. Even if they don't have friends. About other people, I'm not going to pretend to know what happens to them, but I'd like to think that opt 2 would be nice.

I don't pretend to know all there is on christianity so anyone can counter with w/e.

Originally Posted by doctor

To the end question, there are a couple of options:
1: I don't remember in what I've read, of jesus talking about hell. If anyone has a verse, feel free to bring it up. Maybe with that I can deny its existance?

here you go:

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)


In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."

And in Matthew 12:40, Jesus Christ says:

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly: so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH. "

In Acts 2, Peter is speaking, verse 31, " . . . seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in HELL"


__________________________________________________ _____________

Originally Posted by doctor

2: History channel did an interesting documentary on the bible and when the books that were chosen to be in the bible were chosen, it talked of one book left out where jesus suggest that everyone will be let out of hell eventually. So happy ending?

But there are also books which contradict that. So aren't you just picking and choosing parts to believe which 'sound nice' to you?

Originally Posted by doctor

4. My own oppinion is that most folks will actually go to heaven. Talking about the ppl who are at least generally nice. As in had at least one friend that they're nice to. Even if they don't have friends. About other people, I'm not going to pretend to know what happens to them, but I'd like to think that opt 2 would be nice.

This is a problem. You're basically making up your own ideas which are nice to you; in the face of the Bible.

Can't you see how the fact that you can even cherry pick nice parts from the Bible essentially shows that your sense of morality is seperate from the Bible and comes from you?

Of course i pick parts that sound nice to me.
As do some pick parts that sound bad.

As for the Matthew 13:42;

37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The son of man sewed the good seed and the devil sewed the bad: so what was the devils seed? humans? maybe not.

In saying all that I do want to stress that I fully respect your decision.
what I think messes up most religious debates is the outward and evident hatred from the religious side


To the luke verses

that didnt have to do with belief in jesus as more of not doing wrong.

Matthew 25:41

In reading the whole story, that had not to do with belief in jesus then just being relatively nice to others.

revelations wasn't jesus

after searching on the jonas story not many people know what he meant so i'm not going to pretend to know what he meant: leaving that one open to your own interperatation.

And act 2 was peter.

When I said what I said I was talking about jesus talking about hell and not others. I try my best not to go on what others say but what jesus says. Yes I know there are tons of holes in this method. It is just my theory and aren't both conclusions theories in the end?

To the books contradicting thing: I choose to believe in against the contradicting books. Just my belief.

and to my own ideas: yes its all just my theories and speculation, I do admit

Originally Posted by doctor

Of course i pick parts that sound nice to me.
As do some pick parts that sound bad.

As for the Matthew 13:42;

37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The son of man sewed the good seed and the devil sewed the bad: so what was the devils seed? humans? maybe not.

In saying all that I do want to stress that I fully respect your decision.
what I think messes up most religious debates is the outward and evident hatred from the religious side


To the luke verses

that didnt have to do with belief in jesus as more of not doing wrong.

Matthew 25:41

In reading the whole story, that had not to do with belief in jesus then just being relatively nice to others.

revelations wasn't jesus

after searching on the jonas story not many people know what he meant so i'm not going to pretend to know what he meant: leaving that one open to your own interperatation.

And act 2 was peter.

When I said what I said I was talking about jesus talking about hell and not others. I try my best not to go on what others say but what jesus says. Yes I know there are tons of holes in this method. It is just my theory and aren't both conclusions theories in the end?

To the books contradicting thing: I choose to believe in against the contradicting books. Just my belief.

and to my own ideas: yes its all just my theories and speculation, I do admit

mmkay. Not much i can argue to there, its your belief.

I encourage you to ask yourself why you believe it, whether that is a good reason, and what would it take hypothetically to stop you believing.

I ask myself that everyday

I thank you for showing your respect. I see that you are more mature than most people I've encountered, including some of my own close friends.

If I'm right I do believe that you'll go to my version of heaven.
If your right, whatever you believe will happen, I hope it ends out well for both of us.

to get me to end my belief:...not sure at all.

Originally Posted by doctor

to get me to end my belief:...not sure at all.

mm. Think about this.

Originally Posted by doctor

to get me to end my belief:...not sure at all.

I would suggest doing this (i've done it myself and found it very rewarding and interesting)

Visit another church, one that has a different view on the teaching of the bible, maybe Jehovas witness or Spiritualist.

Talk to the people there, find out why they believe what they believe, ask the same difficult questions people ask you... see how those people respond.

Then, go further afield, visit a place of worship for a different religion altogether, hare krisna, hindu, buddhist... anything really.
Once again, talk to the people, discover how convinced they are. Ask them the hard questions that people ask you... see if thier answers are any different from your own. See if they are any less sure.

Don't point out you are a christian, as that'll probably just end up in a religious debate. Go there just as a curious individual who wants to know more about thier religion and beliefs.

What i found was the there is very little difference between why people believe things, even if thier beliefs are very different. They are certainly no less convinced. They also seem to all have the same type of answers to defend thier beliefs and thier particular religion.
Well, of course they can't all be right.... and if others can be mistaken, then so can I.

I'm not suggesting you change what you believe... only test it. It's important to ask difficult questions if you are going to dedicate your life to a belief system. Of course, if you are right, then you have nothing to worry about. All I ask is that you have an open mind, and do things in a spirit of curiosity and honesty.
If you're wrong? well no harm in that. Christianity generally appeals to people because of its teachings of love and good. However, there is a darker side that many christians never research, because they dont want to test thier beliefs.

If you chose Christianity because you agree with the teachings of love and peace. Then even if you made a mistake and it is not the "answer to the universe", you're not a bad person, you've not done anything wrong. You just followed your heart. And of course teaching of love, peace and goodness is going to appeal to a good heart.

Stopping being religious dosnt mean you have to stop being kind, loving, caring and peaceful. It just means you do it outside of the framework of a religion, and as just a caring person of no particular religion.

I don't mean to attack your beliefs. I just want to suggest that you question them and compare them to the beliefs of others. If you are right, and there is a God, i'd be very suprised if he would punish someone who wanted to use the brain and curiosity he gave you, to find the truth.