Why do you do it?

[Invader]

(Disclaimer: This is not a statement of what I believe in or why, and it's purpose is not for you to state what it is you believe in. Although you are free to, you'd be going off topic and I'd appreciate if you tried to avoid sharing the specifics of your personal beliefs.) Considering the amount of time and energy it takes (and stress it creates for some) to argue personal beliefs in regards to the "hidden" workings of the universe, why exactly do you try to argue? I mean, I'm aware of the possibilities. I have my own reasons. Some people argue because their beliefs are challenged. Other people argue in order to challenge the beliefs of other people. Some argue in order to convert people to one religion or another, and others argue to get them to stop believing. With the amount of back-and-forth I see going on in this dark corner of the forums, I wonder what it is that motivates so many people taking part. Are some of you philosophers? Are some of you physicists? Basement chemists? Stay at home moms? Cooks? Writers? Painters? Do you just like arguing? Or maybe you hate arguing, but you feel compelled to argue your beliefs anyways? I'll go ahead and answer first for the sake of getting things rolling: I try my best to discuss for no other purpose than to develop truths for myself. I make a habit of trying my best to discover how everything works, and this ranges from simple mechanical things like common padlocks, to the more advanced theories of how space can be distorted so as to allow for next generation aerospace travel. My primary goal in life, in fact, is to create a device that possesses the capability to generate artificial gravity fields for this purpose. It's the reason I'm studying to become an electrical engineer. The attempt to create a working theory for how (not why) the universe exists came up as a direct result of this curiosity. Naturally, I'd like to know why you, all of you, persist with your arguments. It's not a priority of mine to know, but it would be nice to have an idea. Perhaps you can each learn to understand and tolerate each other a little more because of it. Well, what'll it be? Why do you argue?

[Universal Mind]

It is both fun and educational. Arguing is just really intense discussion, and I think a whole lot more truth comes out in an argument than in an ordinary discussion. Competition makes people work harder. However, I don't think hostility is necessary, but I am glad to give it in return when it comes my way first.

[Original Poster]

I do it for understanding, because I don't have the universe figured out so I take what I've learned and try it against other people in order to build off it. I do it as my own form of peer review, really But I prefer discussing ideas through free association, and I think a lot of arguments here exist solely so some people can dominate others. This is done for any reason you want to justify, but honestly people only do it because they have low self esteem and they want to feel better about themselves.

[Universal Mind]

I do it for understanding, because I don't have the universe figured out so I take what I've learned and try it against other people in order to build off it. I do it as my own form of peer review, really Yes. When I argue, I am putting my own beliefs to the test, and I go all out. If I am wrong, I want to know exactly what I am wrong about. If I am right, I want to confirm it. Also, I tend to ask a ton of tough questions when I am trying to understand somebody else's view. That is almost always perceived as arguing even though it is not always meant to be. My relatives have many times accused me of being argumentative when I was really just trying to fully understand what they were saying. When you do that with people who are not totally sure of what they are saying, they feel threatened and get pissed.

[Invader]

and I think a lot of arguments here exist solely so some people can dominate others. Also, I tend to ask a ton of tough questions when I am trying to understand somebody else's view. That is almost always perceived as arguing even though it is not always meant to be. Yes, I think the misunderstanding of hostility arises right here.. I can't always tell when people's intentions are good or genuinely negative towards others. That in itself was another reason I wanted a general consensus of why people here argued the way they did. Even if both parties might not have had the wrong intentions, they might certainly read each other wrong and end up in a heated debate that gets more personal than professional. It's happened long in the past, and I've been a part of that. But again, so long as people are willing to share, there's much that can be learned from each of us so as to ease the amount of personal drama that goes on in these debates. If I understand where you're coming from (I'm referring to everyone), it might be that much easier for myself and others to interpret your messages as genuinely inquisitive, and not of a hostile nature as is so often the case. Yes, yes. We can forge an alliance of theists, deists, atheists and all other -ists alike for a better, brighter tomorrow.... At least, I can certainly try.

[Original Poster]

Also, I tend to ask a ton of tough questions when I am trying to understand somebody else's view. That is almost always perceived as arguing even though it is not always meant to be. I think the thing to realize is that not everybody thinks their ideas out as much as you do. It's easy to respond to people when you engage in debate regularly but most people need care and attention in order to develop their ideas and don't respond well to being put on the chopping block. They preceive you as offensive because you're asking them to question a lot of their fundamental ideas for the first time that they mostly just accepted, and it is threatening because... if not this then what? Am I just supposed to believe everything you say because I can't answer your questions? What I'm getting at is people can't be expected to respond well to pressure and I think it's more beneficial to have an open discussion about what they believe in a more positive way.

[ClouD]

Arguing, to a certain extent, helps stimulate discussion further. Hostility though, generally degenerates discussion and trails off-topic and into a war of who is right (in which many cases, right isn't relative at all to the topic). Also vice versa, in that applying right and wrong to a discussion can cause further hostility if it's not required, or irrelevant.

[Xaqaria]

Why ever test your beliefs against the external world?

[ClouD]

Why ever test your beliefs against the external world? Perhaps the external world is the internal interpretation.

[Xaqaria]

Perhaps the external world is the internal interpretation. Perhaps the internal interpretation reflects the external world.

[Original Poster]

perhaps the internal world deflects the external interpretation

[Ne-yo]

Why ever test your beliefs against the external world? Perhaps the external world is the internal interpretation. Perhaps the internal interpretation reflects the external world. perhaps the internal world deflects the external interpretation LOL.. Oh and to answer the question, I argue to further educate myself in a variety of different subjects, because 90% of the time the discussion goes from one subject to another in a moments notice. If Universal Mind wasn't around I probably wouldn't spend as much time in R/S.

[Needcatscan]

Reason #1: If there is anyone who frequents these forums who are in the process of growing up in the same environment I have, my desire is to free them from the bondage of fundie religion #2: I seek truth #3: it's fun

[Techno]

Because arguing helps me assert my intelligence and makes me feel like I have a big penis, especially when talking to people who are not well-informed in the areas I am discussing.

[Universal Mind]

Reason #1: If there is anyone who frequents these forums who are in the process of growing up in the same environment I have, my desire is to free them from the bondage of fundie religion I should add that for when it comes to religious debate. I feel like I need to spread the word that Satan, Hell, and demons are fictitious. It is hard enough to get kids to understand that monsters are not real, and it is impossible when their parents keep telling them that they are real. At the same time, I don't like the idea of taking away somebody's belief in supernatural good. It is just that with Christianity, they come together in the same package. Two people in this forum that were Christians not very long agao told me recently that they are atheists now. One of them told me it was because of my influence, and the other one said it was not, although I used to debate him a lot. It really disturbed me. But the bright side is that now they don't have to believe in Hell and stuff. I wish I could talk people out of their beliefs in Hell without talking them out of their belief in God. I have mixed emotions about the whole thing. However, when I see stuff like Hell House, I am going to go all out in arguing against that garbage. Still, my main point in debating religion is to understand the issues better and understand my own belief better.

[Original Poster]

Now you're just bragging

[Carôusoul]

I should add that for when it comes to religious debate. I feel like I need to spread the word that Satan, Hell, and demons are fictitious. It is hard enough to get kids to understand that monsters are not real, and it is impossible when their parents keep telling them that they are real. At the same time, I don't like the idea of taking away somebody's belief in supernatural good. It is just that with Christianity, they come together in the same package. Two people in this forum that were Christians not very long agao told me recently that they are atheists now. One of them told me it was because of my influence, and the other one said it was not, although I used to debate him a lot. It really disturbed me. But the bright side is that now they don't have to believe in Hell and stuff. I wish I could talk people out of their beliefs in Hell without talking them out of their belief in God. I have mixed emotions about the whole thing. However, when I see stuff like Hell House, I am going to go all out in arguing against that garbage. Still, my main point in debating religion is to understand the issues better and understand my own belief better. O'nus has a higher score still.

[Universal Mind]

Now you're just bragging I was talking about something totally relevant, not trying to make you jealous. O'nus has a higher score still. FUCK!!!!!!!! I can't let him win that $1,000.

[Sandform]

On On D.V. it is just for fun. In the real world it's because I don't want to be controlled by religious people. "I ain't afraid of your Yahweh I ain't afraid of your Allah I ain't afraid of your Jesus I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God I ain't afraid of your churches I ain't afraid of your temples I ain't afraid of your praying I'm afraid of what you do in the name of your God"

[Schmaven]

I try my best to discuss for no other purpose than to develop truths for myself. I make a habit of trying my best to discover how everything works, and this ranges from simple mechanical things like common padlocks, to the more advanced theories of how space can be distorted so as to allow for next generation aerospace travel. My primary goal in life, in fact, is to create a device that possesses the capability to generate artificial gravity fields for this purpose. It's the reason I'm studying to become an electrical engineer. The attempt to create a working theory for how (not why) the universe exists came up as a direct result of this curiosity. Naturally, I'd like to know why you, all of you, persist with your arguments. It's not a priority of mine to know, but it would be nice to have an idea. Perhaps you can each learn to understand and tolerate each other a little more because of it. Holy crap, it's like we're twins. I'm also majoring in electrical engineering, and want to come up with some sort of 'anti-gravity' like propulsion system for air travel, among other things. I engage in debates to find out why others' beliefs are, and to put mine out there for what I see as constructive criticism. Other people always have a different way of looking at things, and often come up with very good questions about things, that I hadn't considered before. This makes me either solidify my beliefs by answering those questions, or abandoning ones that seem to no longer make sense. The main goal for me, is to develop my own ideas about this world, and what may be beyond it, out of simple curiosity. I believe that only ourselves can decide what we believe, and we should make sure it's something believable to us.

[Original Poster]

I was talking about something totally relevant, not trying to make you jealous. You couldn't make me jealous unless you boned Emma Watson. That would me jealous. I'm not trying to convert christians into atheists. I'm more concerned with sharing perspectives and perhaps showing some flat-minded atheists that just because the Christian breakdown to existence isn't logical doesn't rule out esoteric knowledge altogether. I get an A for irrelevance!

[Universal Mind]

You couldn't make me jealous unless you boned Emma Watson. I did bone Emma Watson.

[Jadestar]

I argue to try and get people to not look down on other people's religious beliefs. Most of the people I argue with would rather convert others, though. Yes, yes. We can forge an alliance of theists, deists, atheists and all other -ists alike for a better, brighter tomorrow.... At least, I can certainly try. I'm in.

[DeathCell]

Always been an arguer. Fighting for causes or ideas. And this place isn't one for casual discussion too often..

[O'nus]

Discussion leads to mutual enlightenment and development. It is when you are resistent to the new idea that arguments begin. We do not want to give up our ideas - we worked hard to understand them and they make sense to us. If we were wrong about it, it is a lot to take in to say, "I was wrong - this person has shown me the way". However, it is here that I say that this is a great virtue - to admit your falsehoods. To recognize others virtues is a virtue itself. Opening the doors to discussion can be hard online - text is too open to interpretation and people assume the worst usually. I bet a significant portion of debates on here would not turn ugly in person. ~