Thread: Live to Die, Die to live

A rising ocean

Of human consciousness

Riddled artistically in arrays

Of behaviors and beliefs

In all kinds

Expressed within serene validity

All bouncing and rippling

Around a cosmic dance

A perfect harmony

Of death and life,

Life and death,

A way of Life


To this one

The universal Divinity

Striving to know itself, was once

Unknown to the busy mind

That moved in subtle currents

Abiding inside itself

And its notions of notions

Yet in remembrance

The Silence dissolves it all

In remembrance

The memory falls

The notions fall away and

The knowledge stands Still:

The One Self,

The One Self in All

Is Ever-Present

We speak of these things we speak of

Sights of inner Self seen as with the mind

Yet when the true realization of that behind the words comes...

Oh What simplicty! what magnificence!..

Words but empty shells..

Buckets that can only carry

Freedom found beyond its meaning

In a moment all illusion of mind laid transparent

The dimensional door collapsed

The curtain raised

The veil parted

Yet....

To stop now

Before words would carry away

Hiding truth once again...

A dream is like life...

Just as life is like the dream...


A seemingly vast amount of substantial components seen

Yet the quantity does not reflect the reality of the vision

Nor does the experience reflect the true nature of the substance


It is not the individual that summons the action

It is the action that has summoned the individual

We just confuse ourSelves with being one individual or another


It is not the components that have brought forth the story

It is the story itSelf which has brought forth the components


It is not an individuals actions that set forth motion

It is the movement that sets forth the actions of the individual


It is as Rumi has said of Gnats inside the Wind...

Originally Posted by NonDualistic

A dream is like life...

Just as life is like the dream...

Interesting ND...

According to the time of your post, I was simultaneously watching a film called The Waking Life. It's a film about the philosophies of life, including distinguishing dreaming from reality, lucid dreaming, illusion, etc... It would very much agree with what you just said.

"Waking is long and a dream short; other than this there is no difference. Just as waking happenings seem real while awake. so do those in a dream while dreaming. In dream the mind takes on another body. In both waking and dream states thoughts. names and forms occur simultaneously."
-Ramana Maharshi

Nice thread by the way, I'll have to add something of my own some time.

YourSelf


Watching all the parts and pieces interact

Dependency

Like a hand at the end of the arm...


Moving but free of the movement itself


Current dragging every-thing, every-one, into the movement

Drawn like moths to a flame


The love for the lovers act is dim

The love for the lover themselves is only slightly brighter

The love for the lovers love.......

This burns bright like the sun


When light meets light where can darkness hide?

Who can steal its brightness away?

With a breath in, the mind is fed oxygen

Oxygen exhaled by the trees who breath in the carbon

the carbon we exhale

The whole of earth breaths in a cycle

in one breath

breath of life

breath of death

it is a work of in and out

of take and give

but some do not want to give

they only want to take

and take

.......

and take

This creates suffocation

that all experience

and suffocation only brings asphyxiation

asphyxiation

death by being deprived of breath

deprivation of the cycle

one cycle of breathing that should never be suffocated

for we breathe as one

so we are one

one breath

This..and yet so much more

This....the measure by which every-thing comes

This...something all too frequently lost in

This...

That which you lose yourSelf in..

Is also that very thing that you also find yourSelf by

Close your eyes and have a look...

When you are ready to put this person down...

You will be ready to see whats really in the mirror..

A story loses itSelf in the objects of the story

Losing Its presence amidst all the components...

Self awareness clouded over..

Becoming an outside perspective looking in..

A reader of the story..

An isolated component relative to the telling

A player in the play


Wake up from this sleepy madness

Disconnect from this disconnectedness

Separate from the separateness

The components do not exist aside from the story


This story is like a tree

It is older than old

Reaching beyond time itself

Leaves come and go with the seasons

Objects that sprout and then fall away

Sometimes from them a new branch forms

Endless stories all connected

Where would the leaf be without the tree?

This subjective view is misleading

Even more so than the objective


Then Love calls to you

As to lift you out of either or


Appearances are decieving

Look Deeper...

From within..


Love manifests as such images and appearances

But then they all do as such

Constantly shifting in the rainbow colors of presence


Objects of appearance

Mirrors that reflect the rainbow

One color or another


Love is the light itSelf

Light by which every color shines forth


Radiance

The brighter the light the more blended the colors


See past yourself

This darkened shade

You are not even there


Love says " Have Courage, you owe me this much"

Only in such Light can I see

Only in such Presence can I be

As such I am

Remember

Remember

Remember

It is not to remember..

Rememberance is locked into time

A prison of sorts


Recognition is timeless

Whether inside or outside the bars..

Awareness always is


Ahead or behind

Now is the hinge


The water is always moving

Whether away from or towards the pool

The scenery around the movement is like letters to an alphabet

Dont get caught up in the scenery

If you do, you wont see the words that are forming


Whether the Ocean, the rain, or rivers and streams...

Water is water

Despite the appearances, where is any true separation?


Relax into the movement

There is no need to reach

No need to grasp at

What comes also goes

Neither hold to nor push away

The Self view is the disease as well as the cure

Find the balance point upon which the very scale rests upon

It is reaching one way or another that upsets the balance

Chasing after some false self view

Who are you?

Just what are you?

This you that thinks I am

This you that thinks me


Sight without form, now theres a start

There are no handholds here

This is the deep end of the pool

Drown you say?

My friend, can water drown in water?

Now try swimming around...

Thanks so much, Non-Dualistic, for your words have brough me peace of mind. Peace I desperately needed. It is truth I know by heart and your words re-unified me with it. Yet in the end my Ego is still blinding me. Overpowering me.

I see it in myself and in the people around me. The same blessings and the same curses.
Just... Both within myself and within those around me I more often than not see Ego triumph over Consciousness(Divine Self, God, Krishna, Johnny or whatever you wish to call it)

How do I put this wisdom to practicality to overcome the blindness and destructive patterns of the Ego?
How is this wisdom applicable to a lifestyle?

Perhaps its that need to ask how that is at fault? So it seems that peace can only exist when the mind frees itself from belief and method, to unconditionally accept all that is, even if "you" don't like it. Instead of seeking for more method, more pattern, seek the seeker. At least that's probably what Ramana Maharshi would probably say.

I bet we're in a very similar place right now, SKA. Now that I have knowledge of how pointless and destructive my "illusion of self" is, I see it all the time. Though unfortunately most of the time only in retrospect. For some reason despite all this "knowledge" I can't seem to help falling back into unconscious reactivity as time slips by.

Looking for freedom from the ego seems to inevitably cause very thick and paradoxical philosophy, even though the truth is supposedly very simple. I've caused myself a lot of grief from my obsession with it. Gave myself headaches from constantly deliberating. Its honestly caused me to give up seeking. It seems to me I'll never get there if I'm looking for it, because the looking itself is just another projection of that sick ego. Freedom will either come or it won't, trying to facilitate it is only more of the ego's resistance.

Originally Posted by SKA

Thanks so much, Non-Dualistic, for your words have brough me peace of mind. Peace I desperately needed. It is truth I know by heart and your words re-unified me with it. Yet in the end my Ego is still blinding me. Overpowering me.

I see it in myself and in the people around me. The same blessings and the same curses.
Just... Both within myself and within those around me I more often than not see Ego triumph over Consciousness(Divine Self, God, Krishna, Johnny or whatever you wish to call it)

How do I put this wisdom to practicality to overcome the blindness and destructive patterns of the Ego?
How is this wisdom applicable to a lifestyle?

Examples:

Be kind to everything and everyone, including oneself, all the time, with no exceptions.
Revere all of life in all its expressions, no matter what, even if one does not understand it.
Presume no actual reliable knowledge of anything at all. Ask God to reveal its meaning.

http://consciousnessproject.org/arti...f-great-value/

Originally Posted by Speesh

Perhaps its that need to ask how that is at fault? So it seems that peace can only exist when the mind frees itself from belief and method, to unconditionally accept all that is, even if "you" don't like it. Instead of seeking for more method, more pattern, seek the seeker. At least that's probably what Ramana Maharshi would probably say.

I don't think Ramana would say that. The common misconception is that the seeker is what you're looking for, or that one should "seek the seeker." The problem is that they're dualistic concepts. What you're really "seeking" is the non-dualistic Self, which doesn't need to be sought. Seeking implies separation, but there is no other Reality apart from the Self; there is no separation. The term "seeking" needs to be re-contextualized into a devotional practice whereby illusory concepts are simply given up (but that's just one method).

Originally Posted by Speesh

I bet we're in a very similar place right now, SKA. Now that I have knowledge of how pointless and destructive my "illusion of self" is, I see it all the time. Though unfortunately most of the time only in retrospect. For some reason despite all this "knowledge" I can't seem to help falling back into unconscious reactivity as time slips by.

You can't "help it" because it is not something you can control, and it's something you're resisting. Meditation reminds you of this. It takes on a more realistic stance of acceptance and witnessing rather than to be controlling and perceiving.

Originally Posted by Speesh

Looking for freedom from the ego seems to inevitably cause very thick and paradoxical philosophy, even though the truth is supposedly very simple. I've caused myself a lot of grief from my obsession with it. Gave myself headaches from constantly deliberating. Its honestly caused me to give up seeking. It seems to me I'll never get there if I'm looking for it, because the looking itself is just another projection of that sick ego. Freedom will either come or it won't, trying to facilitate it is only more of the ego's resistance.

All paradoxes are resolved with spiritual investigation. You're giving yourself headaches and problems because you're trying to sort this out with the mind. That is exactly what you should not do. It's not a bad thing though, it's just a tendency of human consciousness. A lot of "work" is needed before the paradigm of the intellect is resolved through spiritual awareness rather than concepts alone. If you simply give up the frustration by examining that it is you that has deemed yourself to be frustrated, then you will no longer have it.

Originally Posted by really

You can't "help it" because it is not something you can control, and it's something you're resisting. Meditation reminds you of this. It takes on a more realistic stance of acceptance and witnessing rather than to be controlling and perceiving.

This is the only thing i disagree with...

This is a problem in most persons, as they believe some aspects of themselves, some parts, are out of their grasp of scrutiny and lack the ability to control certain parts of their being when in truth everything about you is controllable by yourself and/or by others. The level of control is usually mirrored by the level of self awareness and exuberant self scrutiny over every single thought that passes through the persons mind, but allowing oneself to have a level regulation that becomes normal. A rewiring of ones ego, an unplug, reset, and reboot of the grandest porportions

Originally Posted by MementoMori

This is the only thing i disagree with...

This is a problem in most persons, as they believe some aspects of themselves, some parts, are out of their grasp of scrutiny and lack the ability to control certain parts of their being when in truth everything about you is controllable by yourself and/or by others. The level of control is usually mirrored by the level of self awareness and exuberant self scrutiny over every single thought that passes through the persons mind, but allowing oneself to have a level regulation that becomes normal. A rewiring of ones ego, an unplug, reset, and reboot of the grandest porportions

Well sure, everything in that context may be exercisable. I think this has relationships to Self-Actualization and perfecting the personality. Unfortunately this is the deviation of a lot of New Age content.

What you cannot control is that which is prior to all of this, as you said - self awareness, that which all of the above depends on. Consciousness and the ways of life are beyond our control, because they cannot be individualized or detected in order for such. We can influence them but not control them as we'd like to believe. Like one cannot control the level of the effects of the human ego, or the time at which somebody "becomes" enlightened, analogously so it can be seen in that we cannot "make" a flower grow but we can contribute to the favorable conditions (I.e. watering it etc.)

Furthermore the advancing of consciousness doesn't occur in the same realm as the ego perceives, due to a number of factors that aren't true in greater realms/contexts of reality. I understand consciousness to be in autonomous flux, in an eternal instant, however the ego perceives with control, getting and acquiring in something called "time". If you really had beyond this much control, can you make your mind silent right at this instant? Can one make oneself understand something that is out of their grasp? This is really the depth that we're looking to.

"My Ego", you say?

Just who is this that can have such?

What is this that can be had?

Ask yourself these things


Look


Can seeing be seen?

Can hearing be heard?

Can touching be touched?

Can smelling be smelled?

Can tasting be tasted?


Not a one of them can be

Yet...they all are...despite this lack of self recognition



The ego self is simply a construct

A construct of thoughts

Objects of action

Objects of experience

A thought is a thought

One builds upon another

Both subtle and grand


Who are you?

A collection of thoughts?

One heaped upon another

What just is this that you are holding onto ?

We misuse this world around us

Looking at this world...

Rather than looking into it


Do you look at a mirror?...or

Is a mirror to be looked into?


This world, this existance..

This is a mirror


You see the objects in this mirror

Yet your perspective is from that of being one of those objects

How can any real use be made of this mirror by someone so blinded?


Realize friend

You are looking into this mirror at the same moment you are existing in it

Duality so cleverly hidden

Yet non dualistic in the very same moment...

This is your current condition

A ships anchor....

An electrical ground.....

One keeps things in place

The other allows for flow of movement

Both a metaphor for one in the same essence


From birth an anchor becomes attached to the body

Movement and flow is grounded through this person of the body


When death comes to this body, this person..

The ship can only drift without some thing to be anchored to

Without a solid ground.... current is interrupted, or lost

Just how do you see yourself?

Are you anchored to "your" body?

Are you grounded to the "person" you think you are?


When the body dies..

When the person ceases to be....

Who are you then?....

Because you are....

You do not end...


What do you see when you look into this mirror?

Even this body is an object in the mirror

A mere reflection

Its not you

Its just telling of you

This person..

Just a means of telling

You wander as above the forrest

Trees gone unseen under the leaves of the canopy

Pull yourSelf down among the trees within

Walking inside you see the individual trees

Easily you move around each trunk

It is quiet in here

The wind does not howl as it does above

Thoughts are seen for what they are

The forrest grows one tree at a time

Even though trees may die..

They never leave the forrest

The forrest hides their dying

It hides everything..

Unless you are down in it

Walking through it

What of reality can you see from above?

Looking at the canopy below...

Looking blindly in the mirror, it can be clumsy to walk.

Looking blindingly into the truth, and it may walk clumsily still.

You hear of suicide

You see the thoughts

A curiosity arises


Just who is it that would be killing who?


Who is it that wants to die?

Who is it that wants to kill?


Who are you in the midst of such wants?


Attractions and repulsions

They all come and go

And yet there you are

Like a hinge on a door...


Where the door swings matters not

It swings upon you