Thread: Is god tolerant....or not?

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

It's the water for your plotholes.

I love the metaphor.

Absurb! and unintelligent.does using the F word givwe you credibility? Laughing very hard.......

Originally Posted by celticlass

Absurb! and unintelligent.does using the F word givwe you credibility? Laughing very hard.......

oh u.

I'm not religious, but my God is.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Well, if someone is so perfect and inerrant, why would he make such a silly mistake as cursing a fig tree and killing it, just because it didn't bear fruit for him. Surely, someone as perfect as Jesus would have known the fig-tree wouldn't have had fruit for him to eat as it wasn't even in the right time of the year for it.

(It is more useful to post the context which you are referring to). It is all in the message. Much of the Holy Bible uses metaphorical techniques and parables.

He cursed it because he only saw leaves, yet its leaves should be grown after fruit. If there was no fruit and only leaves, it is deemed useless. I read it as a fruitless tree: no benefit. Curse what provides no benefit; transcend the ego.

Originally Posted by celticlass

Some folks prefer to stay ignorant because then they do NOT have to be accountable,but blame it on their God! As a Celtic earth Witch and pagan,I an responsible and accountable for what i do!Hell was a grand invention of the Christian church to keep folks in fear so they would listen to the teachings iof the church. The Druids accepted the NEW religion,Christianity and allowed it. Christianityt did NOT accept the Goddess or tgye olde ways! Mary worship is the Goddess worship. 99% of the Christiamn holidays are Pagan based. Facts,my friends,facts. read your history..........alot of my info comes from the Catholic encyclopedia and your bible.

Yes, self-responsibility is important. Deep down, everybody knows it, millions deny it (ignorance).

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Well get this-- God only is seen to exist because of the bible.

Just like physics textbooks existed before particles? Are you serious? No wonder your lost.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Get the fuck out of my forum.

Grow up, not sideways.

Originally Posted by really

(It is more useful to post the context which you are referring to). It is all in the message. Much of the Holy Bible uses metaphorical techniques and parables.

He cursed it because he only saw leaves, yet its leaves should be grown after fruit. If there was no fruit and only leaves, it is deemed useless. I read it as a fruitless tree: no benefit. Curse what provides no benefit; transcend the ego.

*After an application of Occam's Razor* Or he was simply a stupid guy for not realising something so basic that even a farmer would know better. Curse what provides no benefit; transcend dogma.

Originally Posted by really

Just like physics textbooks existed before particles? Are you serious? No wonder your lost.

Are you seriously comparing the Bible to a physics textbook?

Originally Posted by really

Just like physics textbooks existed before particles? Are you serious? No wonder your lost.

Wrong.

Particles were discovered and documented.

God was created and enforced.

Physics textbooks tell about particles and still work in the same way-- You can't say you adhere to all of the laws and principles, etc. presented int he books and then go make up contradicting nonsense that doesn't even have a book as a reference.

That's just crap.

However the Bible hardly has any basis in reality other than a Fiction/ Lawbook work or literature.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

*After an application of Occam's Razor* Or he was simply a stupid guy for not realising something so basic that even a farmer would know better. Curse what provides no benefit; transcend dogma.

Like I said, it's in the message.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Are you seriously comparing the Bible to a physics textbook?

Yes, in the way that Seismosaur seems to think that God is "seen to exist" because of a book. I add that hands exist because of the hammer? Sarcasm.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Wrong.

Particles were discovered and documented.

You don't understand. Say "Jesus/God was discovered and documented." Because like "particles", God has always been "there/here". See what I mean?

Originally Posted by really

Yes, in the way that Seismosaur seems to think that God is "seen to exist" because of a book. I add that hands exist because of the hammer? Sarcasm.

You can't prove the existence of a deity objectively. You can't make predictions that can be falsified, you can't observe it, and you can't make experiments to show how the observations you made were correct.

Science does not work in the way where you have a conclusion BEFORE you investigate the problem.

Originally Posted by really

You don't understand. Say "Jesus/God was discovered and documented." Because like "particles", God has always been "there/here". See what I mean?

You can't prove the existence of something using the source from which the claim is made. That is circular logic.

Originally Posted by really

You don't understand. Say "Jesus/God was discovered and documented." Because like "particles", God has always been "there/here". See what I mean?

The physics books aren't used as proof though.

They just explain.

Particles can be seen, tested with, they interact with us every day.

God is just a response to a qwuestion that can't be answered.

"Where did the sun come from?" God did it.
"Where do babies come from?" God did it.

See? Doesn't get you anywhere.

And there is no proof, and has never been proof of and deity ever for thousands of years and today we still have none so I can sincerely say that the bible was not written as anything other than a lawbook.

The sexism, racism, and contradictory nature proves it.

But wait, now your going to say that it was just people who wrote it so it doesn't count, right?

Wrong.

I might say that Sauron was an omnibenevolent person with nothing but goodness in his heart, even though LotR says otherwise, I can just dismiss it because a person wrote it, right?

...Bringing me back again to the second point: No proof.

No proof.
No reason.
No effect.
No argument.

So no god.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

You can't prove the existence of a deity objectively. You can't make predictions that can be falsified, you can't observe it, and you can't make experiments to show how the observations you made were correct.

There are many things which cannot be proven, but exist in some quality which is verifiable. For example, you can verify that you went to the markets, to yourself. However, you may have left no trace of evidence, and nobody may have seen you. Does that mean somebody else can't prove that you went? Apparently. Does that mean you didn't go? No. So what happens? If somebody wants to believe you, they're going to have to trust you. In the context of spirituality, I mean: Have faith. (Enlightenment is the "proof"; the verification). You have no experience of what is attempted to be communicated; listen carefully to teachings/teachers if you do.

Know that millions do not understand Reality, are lost in it, dwelling in hopeless, lost, day-dreams. There are intelligent intellectuals who do discover things about nature, the mind, the body, the Earth, yet are still lost for conclusions of the question of "Why - who am I?" There are also millions who follow a religion yet barely understand what they believe in. They may even fight over the "good" - they become lost in their interpretations, unaware of their animal mind. But humans are growing; evolving, inevitably for the better of experience.

That aside, there are rare ones who have preached of Universal Truths that are Impersonal, they have understood the power which moves the particle; which brings life alive; the power which beats their heart; the power which flies the planets; the galaxies... the "Allness". They live in Essence; pure Consciousness, pure Awareness; pure Awakening. They see things before they happen; they are home with God, afterall. All negativity and problems are absorbed and transformed into Light/Love. They are not deluded at all; they are not frauds - they have no interest in fame, wealth/money or power. They are in heaven. Compassion is them. These rare ones I speak of are the Enlightened: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Ramana, Ramesh etc. They speak the Truth without effort, they perform what the ordinary person would deem "miraculous", but to the Universe, it is normal. They heal people, they uplift people simply by their presence; non-verbally; without any action, simply by "being". Science has no reach here (in some cases), nor is there any need. It is self-evident of Truth; there is no argument of it. There is enough power glowing about these people that it burns an imprint on human history. The news spreads, word travels and people look forward, curiously.

It motivates great lectures/speeches, and "bibles". But from there on, the essentials become clouded. Churches lose the point and start dividing; translation invites error and then it is up to interpretation; which invites further error. Furthermore, error may not even become known, it may then be projected onto others, violent or not. This is the typical nature of humanity. Look at how the media can influence people; politics, propaganda, advertising - whatever. Look at the gullible. Can you blame them? No.

Humanity is uplifted, yet years after such a revelation, they continue being themselves: Selfish, enraged, violent, animals - distorting reality for how it looks; asleep. But this is not bad, this is normal. Compassion is here: We are innocent. We are growing; learning from mistakes. Let's accept our limitations as a sign of growth! Most of us are afraid of the Truth, that is the real problem; afraid of "death". Even those who understand Spirituality may fail to surrender. It is very rare that anyone knows the Truth, because humans are thriving "off it". They are ignoring it for the sake of what their "life" seems to mean.

There is conscious research which has proof of such things. But the proof rests on the bridge between the linear and the non-linear, the physical and the spiritual. Proof of spirituality is not only irrelevant but also useless. What use is proof of God? It is an experience of Truth and Knowledge, not a floating light bulb or a white bearded man standing on a cloud. God is only an Absolute Certainty; a Revelation; an Awareness and therefore can only be verified by your Self. Besides, you can no longer argue with Science, it is now an advocate to the spiritual. Those truly in denial will even deny that science has brought about such recent discoveries. Even so, I like my blunt metaphor: Science describes on the surface of things (physical); Spirit Experiences things for just what they are (essence).

Enlightenment is just that. Nobody who unites with God ever complains, nor has that capability. It is literally mind-blowing. One may be rendered speechless for many years.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Science does not work in the way where you have a conclusion BEFORE you investigate the problem.

Not only doesn't it work, but it has no reason to. There is no problem with God.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

You can't prove the existence of something using the source from which the claim is made.

My computer acclaims its existence. I do not have to type up an experiment for proof. Likewise, I understand God, which brings me closer to him without doubt. It may be useful to say that God is the Absolute Reality.

It is almost impossible for a new "outsider" to explain the Truth coherently. It doesn't even come close to the unexplainable dreams some of us might experience.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

The physics books aren't used as proof though.

They just explain.

Just like the Bible. You could bluntly be aware that the Bible has distorted explanations.

[quote=Seismosaur;833063]
Particles can be seen, tested with, they interact with us every day./quote]

So can God. To see how irrelevant testing is for God; test the test itself.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

God is just a response to a qwuestion that can't be answered.

"Where did the sun come from?" God did it.
"Where do babies come from?" God did it.

God "did" it because God is both "the mother and father" and the "solar system", etc. I.e. Essence.

The ego is infatuated with detail.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

And there is no proof, and has never been proof of and deity ever for thousands of years and today we still have none so I can sincerely say that the bible was not written as anything other than a lawbook.

At the time, those who wrote the Bible did not need a science experiment.

Enlightenment is the Revelation.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

The sexism, racism, and contradictory nature proves it.

They are distortions. They prove nothing but the limitations of the human mind.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

But wait, now your going to say that it was just people who wrote it so it doesn't count, right?

^ See? What it does quite often is: inherently produce false assumptions.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

I might say that Sauron was an omnibenevolent person with nothing but goodness in his heart, even though LotR says otherwise, I can just dismiss it because a person wrote it, right?

I can see you saying "Tolkien has no imagination." See what I mean? (See what I mean?)

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

No proof.
No reason.
No effect.
No argument.

To you, I'd guess: "no conclusion". That is much safer.

Originally Posted by really

There are many things which cannot be proven, but exist in some quality which is verifiable. For example, you can verify that you went to the markets, to yourself. However, you may have left no trace of evidence, and nobody may have seen you. Does that mean somebody else can't prove that you went? Apparently. Does that mean you didn't go? No. So what happens? If somebody wants to believe you, they're going to have to trust you. In the context of spirituality, I mean: Have faith. (Enlightenment is the "proof"; the verification). You have no experience of what is attempted to be communicated; listen carefully to teachings/teachers if you do.

Confirmation Bias. GTFO.

Originally Posted by really

Know that millions do not understand Reality, are lost in it, dwelling in hopeless, lost, day-dreams. There are intelligent intellectuals who do discover things about nature, the mind, the body, the Earth, yet are still lost for conclusions of the question of "Why - who am I?" There are also millions who follow a religion yet barely understand what they believe in. They may even fight over the "good" - they become lost in their interpretations, unaware of their animal mind. But humans are growing; evolving, inevitably for the better of experience.

And what does that have to do with a Sky Daddy?

Originally Posted by really

That aside, there are rare ones who have preached of Universal Truths that are Impersonal, they have understood the power which moves the particle; which brings life alive; the power which beats their heart; the power which flies the planets; the galaxies... the "Allness". They live in Essence; pure Consciousness, pure Awareness; pure Awakening. They see things before they happen; they are home with God, afterall. All negativity and problems are absorbed and transformed into Light/Love. They are not deluded at all; they are not frauds - they have no interest in fame, wealth/money or power. They are in heaven. Compassion is them. These rare ones I speak of are the Enlightened: Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, Ramana, Ramesh etc. They speak the Truth without effort, they perform what the ordinary person would deem "miraculous", but to the Universe, it is normal. They heal people, they uplift people simply by their presence; non-verbally; without any action, simply by "being". Science has no reach here (in some cases), nor is there any need. It is self-evident of Truth; there is no argument of it. There is enough power glowing about these people that it burns an imprint on human history. The news spreads, word travels and people look forward, curiously.

Absolute Truth is a crock of shit for so many reasons.

Originally Posted by really

It motivates great lectures/speeches, and "bibles". But from there on, the essentials become clouded. Churches lose the point and start dividing; translation invites error and then it is up to interpretation; which invites further error. Furthermore, error may not even become known, it may then be projected onto others, violent or not. This is the typical nature of humanity. Look at how the media can influence people; politics, propaganda, advertising - whatever. Look at the gullible. Can you blame them? No.

Or they were flawed from the beginning, which was why interpretation was required in the first place. Absolute Truth™ requires no interpretation as it is self-evident, but when all these religious ideas differ from each other, even when within the same religion, then the idea of Absolute Truth crumbles apart.

Originally Posted by really

Humanity is uplifted, yet years after such a revelation, they continue being themselves: Selfish, enraged, violent, animals - distorting reality for how it looks; asleep. But this is not bad, this is normal. Compassion is here: We are innocent. We are growing; learning from mistakes. Let's accept our limitations as a sign of growth! Most of us are afraid of the Truth, that is the real problem; afraid of "death". Even those who understand Spirituality may fail to surrender. It is very rare that anyone knows the Truth, because humans are thriving "off it". They are ignoring it for the sake of what their "life" seems to mean.

Fluff... so much fluff....

Originally Posted by really

There is conscious research which has proof of such things. But the proof rests on the bridge between the linear and the non-linear, the physical and the spiritual. Proof of spirituality is not only irrelevant but also useless. What use is proof of God? It is an experience of Truth and Knowledge, not a floating light bulb or a white bearded man standing on a cloud. God is only an Absolute Certainty; a Revelation; an Awareness and therefore can only be verified by your Self. Besides, you can no longer argue with Science, it is now an advocate to the spiritual. Those truly in denial will even deny that science has brought about such recent discoveries. Even so, I like my blunt metaphor: Science describes on the surface of things (physical); Spirit Experiences things for just what they are (essence).

Proof of spirits? Okay, this shit is getting stupid. Citation or GTFO.

Originally Posted by really

Enlightenment is just that. Nobody who unites with God ever complains, nor has that capability. It is literally mind-blowing. One may be rendered speechless for many years.

You know what?

Originally Posted by really

Not only doesn't it work, but it has no reason to. There is no problem with God.

You keep telling yourself that...

Originally Posted by really

My computer acclaims its existence. I do not have to type up an experiment for proof. Likewise, I understand God, which brings me closer to him without doubt. It may be useful to say that God is the Absolute Reality.

Holy shit fuckery. Comprehension skills, learn them. I articulated that something that makes a claim "Magic Pixies exist" cannot be used as evidence for Magic Pixies.

An object in front of you exists because a vast lattice and structure of molecules are formed in such a way that it is the object itself. You can touch the object and you can see it. Your senses confirm it's existence, not the object itself.

You can't see X-rays or Gamma Rays, but you can test for them, and pretty conclusively.

A Deity has nothing to go for it, no way to make a prediction to highlight a possible occurrence of a deity, nor can you make a test to validate the prediction.

Originally Posted by really

It is almost impossible for a new "outsider" to explain the Truth coherently. It doesn't even come close to the unexplainable dreams some of us might experience.

Unexplainable dreams? You think you are the only one to have unexplainable dreams, and these are somehow attributed to a Sky Daddy? HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAAAHAH AHAHAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA HAAAHA
HAAAAAA*gasp*HAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAHHAAHAHAHA HAHHAA

Originally Posted by really

Just like the Bible. You could bluntly be aware that the Bible has distorted explanations.

Physics Textbook, content verified objectively through years of research, and the content itself reviewed mercilessly to prevent errors or poor explanations, before being printed once the content is found to be at an acceptable standard and accuracy for teaching.

Bible.... well, after a millenia or so of different translations, errors, and interpretations, none of those confirmed through research to ensure accuracy with the original documents (which themselves could have been flawed)... why should I even accept such distorted messages? If something has to rely on subjective interpretation and not facts, then ultimately, it is pointless to say it is Absolute Truth, because there is no way to quantify in an objective manner what the fuck the Bible is trying to say.

Originally Posted by really

So can God. To see how irrelevant testing is for God; test the test itself.

Fail. Tests that scientists do are not simple whims and ideas, they come about through application of the knowledge they have of whatever field they specialise in. You can't simply put a test together with a bunch of random equipment in hope of finding something new. You have to do a control, use large number of samples, the tests must be blind, the test be able to confirm or falsify a prediction set by a hypothesis, etc.

You have fuck all understanding of the scientific method.

Originally Posted by really

God "did" it because God is both "the mother and father" and the "solar system", etc. I.e. Essence.

The ego is infatuated with detail.

"Forget all this knowledge! It is only something the ego is fascinated with! Accept the Lord instead! Come and drink the Kool-Aid with me and let us experience our spiritual enlightenment!"

Originally Posted by really

At the time, those who wrote the Bible did not need a science experiment.

Enlightenment is the Revelation.

Personal Revelation to you is hearsay to everyone else. If you can't realise that, then you're an idiot.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

And what does that have to do with a Sky Daddy?

It is a compassionate description of the collective animal mind, which needs to be transcended with Love if one seeks God.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Absolute Truth is a crock of shit for so many reasons.

Well, you haven't listed any. (Actually, truth will be flawed if it requires reasons).

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Absolute Truth™ requires no interpretation as it is self-evident,

Now you appear to have an inconsistent argument. It is only Self evident to those who are not ignorant.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

but when all these religious ideas differ from each other, even when within the same religion, then the idea of Absolute Truth crumbles apart.

This is why I follow a Spiritual path, not a religious one. One can be fine being religious, but there are spots which do invite confusion. So, if one understands what creates these problems, there are fewer problems with the spiritual seeker who understands their essence.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Fluff... so much fluff....

And to dust ye shall return...

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Proof of spirits? Okay, this shit is getting stupid. Citation or GTFO..

Consciousness Reasearch. If you are interested, look.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

You keep telling yourself that...

Hmm, I keep telling you that. I have no worries/doubts.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Holy shit fuckery. Comprehension skills, learn them. I articulated that something that makes a claim "Magic Pixies exist" cannot be used as evidence for Magic Pixies.

Although I didn't even mention "Magic Pixies", they exist in your imagination. Do you believe in the imagination?

Originally Posted by bluefinger

An object in front of you exists because a vast lattice and structure of molecules are formed in such a way that it is the object itself. You can touch the object and you can see it. Your senses confirm it's existence, not the object itself.

What were you saying earlier? I don't see your point either, it is not going against anything. Can I touch "Science"?

Originally Posted by bluefinger

A Deity has nothing to go for it, no way to make a prediction to highlight a possible occurrence of a deity, nor can you make a test to validate the prediction.

Nor is it even necessary. It is beyond the world and its artifacts.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Unexplainable dreams? You think you are the only one to have unexplainable dreams, and these are somehow attributed to a Sky Daddy? HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAAAHAH AHAHAH
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA HAAAHA
HAAAAAA*gasp*HAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAHHAAHAHAHA HAHHAA

No, I don't think I am the only one, of course not! "Unexplainable" can be communicated with the relationship I made.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

it is pointless to say it is Absolute Truth,

Where did that come from? False assumption?

Originally Posted by bluefinger

because there is no way to quantify in an objective manner what the fuck the Bible is trying to say.

Not much can be done with information, without research.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Fail. Tests that scientists do are not simple whims and ideas, they come about through application of the knowledge they have of whatever field they specialise in. You can't simply put a test together with a bunch of random equipment in hope of finding something new. You have to do a control, use large number of samples, the tests must be blind, the test be able to confirm or falsify a prediction set by a hypothesis, etc.

Can you test experience itself? Consciousness Research is about as close as it gets.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

"Forget all this knowledge! It is only something the ego is fascinated with! Accept the Lord instead! Come and drink the Kool-Aid with me and let us experience our spiritual enlightenment!"

Do not be intimidated by something which is not a fancy cartoon. I find it funny how people argue about things when they have no idea what they are arguing about! If you are interested, I say again, do some Research, "prove" these things for yourself. It is unwise to make an assumption about what has yet to be understood.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Personal Revelation to you is hearsay to everyone else. If you can't realise that, then you're an idiot.

It is not personal (unique to me), which is why there is a great history about it with teachers today.