Thread: Is god tolerant....or not?

I think the better question should be, "Should a god be tolerant?" If I created a universe, I would set rules that could not be broken. Why should the murderer be able to ask for forgiveness for his sins? Join the club, accept my love, and you will go to heaven regardless of your acts? What about personal responsibility? Consequences for your actions?

Originally Posted by psychology student

Infalliable scientific reasoning from Fableflame! It receives the Borat seal of approval:

"Nice"!

Thank you! I am honored.

I think that video is a bit manipulative. I don't believe in god, but I am against any sort of manipulation by either side. Though, I myself haven't read the bible and I really don't know anything about the Christian religion, I thought the ten commandments did not support murder at all. Isn't what he stated part of the "old testament" as they call it?

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

I think that video is a bit manipulative. I don't believe in god, but I am against any sort of manipulation by either side. Though, I myself haven't read the bible and I really don't know anything about the Christian religion, I thought the ten commandments did not support murder at all. Isn't what he stated part of the "old testament" as they call it?

I've read a little of the Bible and yes that is confusing, in the video he was quoting the passages correctly but at the same time yes it does say thou shalt not kill. I think though "thou shalt not kill" must been don't kill an innocent person, but people who break the ten commandments are not innocent so they must be punished, since God psychically doesn't come down the kill sinners, he has told mankind what they should d with the sinners among them.

A Christian response to this is that the Old Testament does not apply to modern day life. However one to argue that, as the video did, the Bible states God's Laws do not change and Jesus himself said that he hadn't come to change his fathers rules. This would suggest the rules God put forward to humans in the Bible are rules he wishes us to obey for all eternity. Also there are very important sections in the OT which Christians to abide to, so it is nonsense to say only certain verses to not apply.

The only problem i saw in that video was when he quotes Jesus, saying we should gouge out our eyes or cut off limbs as it is better to be sinless and maimed then to have a sinning appendage( which obviously doesn't make sense) and live with it. Jesus says he speaks in parables, that is obviously a parable as is much of the New testament, the Old testament is clearly not made up of parables when it states sins and punishments and when God commands certain groups of people to invade other cities( and how horribly he demands he treats them, i mean that whole ripping open pregnant women and raping the little girls....as the video said, repulsive..:).

Bar that quote from Jesus which was taken too literally, although i wouldn't be surprised if a small number of Christians did take that literally.., that video was pretty much spot on. Some say the OT does not apply and yet the ten commandments are in it, we use those right? Along with the creation story and Adam and Eve?

Also one other note, it's debatable but the word Slave in those days supposedly meant more like a servant. However if that is true the description of a "Slave" in the Bible does sound more like our modern day use of the word Slave. I mean we have paid servants now a days but the Bible doesn't seem to mention that Slaves were paid and we certainly wouldn't beat servants or treat them as property so even if it is claimed the Bible means servants not slaves, the way it teaches us how servants should be treated is repulsive as the video claims.

Originally Posted by dorpis

Okay, I've read and heard that God is a tolerant person, loving everybody. And then, people are all like "yada yada.. God hates homos" and other mean things about other people?

Which way is it, is he tolerant to other beliefs andsuch, or not?

Although God is Perfectly and Unconditionally tolerant, He is not a person.

What do you think All-forgiving means!?

Ignorance is a punishment in itself, not from God.

He is only forgiving if you devote your life to Him and go and be saved and all that. Unless your saved you go to hell right?
How is that Unconditionally tolerant and All-forgiving?

Heaven: Population -- 1

Many of us worship the Goddess because she is more tolerant and understanding. Mankind is where he is by choice on alot of issues.

Originally Posted by Fableflame

He is only forgiving if you devote your life to Him and go and be saved and all that.

No matter what happens; what you do, there is still a way out. The way to God is unconditional; unconditional Love.

Originally Posted by Fableflame

Unless your saved you go to hell right?

If you are not "saved" you are basically already in hell. It could be worse. But it could also be Perfect. Heaven is Unconditional, it can be revealed anywhere/anytime because it is beyond time and space.

Originally Posted by Fableflame

How is that Unconditionally tolerant and All-forgiving?

There is always choice; eternal life; eternal happiness. I see no grudge.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Heaven: Population -- 1

Heaven is beyond population. The Universe is the "population".

Originally Posted by really

No matter what happens; what you do, there is still a way out. The way to God is unconditional; unconditional Love.

If you are not "saved" you are basically already in hell. It could be worse. But it could also be Perfect. Heaven is Unconditional, it can be revealed anywhere/anytime because it is beyond time and space.

There is always choice; eternal life; eternal happiness. I see no grudge.

Heaven is beyond population. The Universe is the "population".

I've already posted a fair bit in the philosophy forum on a thread called "Problem with Heaven". Most of my arguments centre around how an eternal existence is equivalent to torture, regardless of whether one is in pain or is 'happy'. For the former, you'd at least get used to the pain after so long, and for the latter, you'd be a mindless drone. Hmmm, the choice... I think the Buddhists have a far more attractive idea for death than this whole Heaven shiznit... Nirvana is far more preferable to an eternal existence...

Originally Posted by bluefinger

I've already posted a fair bit in the philosophy forum on a thread called "Problem with Heaven". Most of my arguments centre around how an eternal existence is equivalent to torture, regardless of whether one is in pain or is 'happy'. For the former, you'd at least get used to the pain after so long, and for the latter, you'd be a mindless drone. Hmmm, the choice...

You were probably assuming that in Heaven/Eternity there would be an ego. Not possible.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

I think the Buddhists have a far more attractive idea for death than this whole Heaven shiznit... Nirvana is far more preferable to an eternal existence...

They all have the same Spiritual essence; they all refer to the same Truth.

Originally Posted by really

You were probably assuming that in Heaven/Eternity there would be an ego. Not possible.

So you lose an aspect of Self in order to exist for an eternity? What a wonderful proposition!

Originally Posted by really

They all have the same Spiritual essence; they all refer to the same Truth.

When Nirvana can be given the analogy of "like a drop of water merging with an ocean" as opposed to Heaven being with God and existing for eternity, I think they are quite different. The former deals with losing sense of self and awareness, basically one's consciousness merges back into the universe. Heaven is something you are aware of (maintaining a form of consciousness) and therefore is different in concept.

Although God is Perfectly and Unconditionally tolerant

And as every intelligent person knows, ordering people to be executed by stoning for trivial acts, ordering genocide, ordering the slaughter of unbelievers, condemning homosexuality, and many more such acts are tolerant. [/SARCASM]

You're an idiot. Try reading the Bible (specifically the parts where the above happens) before you spout the same mindless crap over and over. Oh wait, that would mean you might actually have to think about something yourself for once.


Edit: Included the sarcasm tag because I don't think our friend would get the message otherwise. Even with this, I'm not hopeful, because it would be rational!

Originally Posted by bluefinger

So you lose an aspect of Self in order to exist for an eternity? What a wonderful proposition!

You lose nothing. You lived an illusion (you still do apparently).

Originally Posted by bluefinger

When Nirvana can be given the analogy of "like a drop of water merging with an ocean" as opposed to Heaven being with God and existing for eternity, I think they are quite different. The former deals with losing sense of self and awareness, basically one's consciousness merges back into the universe. Heaven is something you are aware of (maintaining a form of consciousness) and therefore is different in concept.

Losing sense of self/ego/illusions is a profound elevation of Awareness.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

You're an idiot. Try reading the Bible (specifically the parts where the above happens) before you spout the same mindless crap over and over. Oh wait, that would mean you might actually have to think about something yourself for once.

Religious dogma/fallacious Bible translations/ego productions are not of my essential interest.

Originally Posted by really

Religious dogma

Irony ++

fallacious Bible translations/ego productions are not of my essential interest.

Uh huh. So you don't believe in any version of the Bible period then?

God is tolerable.

You are tolerated in existence...how are you not...

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Irony ++

I am not religious.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Uh huh. So you don't believe in any version of the Bible period then?

I know the bible has errors, but Jesus does not.

Originally Posted by really

I am not religious.

lol

Originally Posted by really

I know the bible has errors, but Jesus does not.

Is this the same Jesus who cursed a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season?

I am not religious.

Religious dogma [...] are not of my essential interest.

Jesus does not [make errors].

Is there any consistency up there in that head of yours?

I know the bible has errors

Bonus points for realising this.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Is there any consistency up there in that head of yours?

Where is the inconsistency?

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Bonus points for realising this.

You said "Try reading the Bible". So what was your point?

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Is this the same Jesus who cursed a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season?

What's your point?

Originally Posted by really

What's your point?

Well, if someone is so perfect and inerrant, why would he make such a silly mistake as cursing a fig tree and killing it, just because it didn't bear fruit for him. Surely, someone as perfect as Jesus would have known the fig-tree wouldn't have had fruit for him to eat as it wasn't even in the right time of the year for it.

Originally Posted by really

Although God is Perfectly and Unconditionally tolerant, He is not a person.

What do you think All-forgiving means!?

Ignorance is a punishment in itself, not from God.

Some folks prefer to stay ignorant because then they do NOT have to be accountable,but blame it on their God! As a Celtic earth Witch and pagan,I an responsible and accountable for what i do!Hell was a grand invention of the Christian church to keep folks in fear so they would listen to the teachings iof the church. The Druids accepted the NEW religion,Christianity and allowed it. Christianityt did NOT accept the Goddess or tgye olde ways! Mary worship is the Goddess worship. 99% of the Christiamn holidays are Pagan based. Facts,my friends,facts. read your history..........alot of my info comes from the Catholic encyclopedia and your bible.

Why does everyone confuse their own FanFic version of religion that is 90% deus ex machina with the religion that we're talking about?

You say God is omnibenevolent; we say the bible itself dictates otherwise; you say you aren't religious and your beliefs say that it doesn't count.

Well get this-- God only is seen to exist because of the bible.

If J.R.R. Tolkein had never written The Hobbit, or The Lord of the Rings, or the Silmarillion, then all of the characters therein would not exist.

They would have nothing to them-- Just thoughts in his head.

You take a character away from its medium and anything you say about it is invalid.

Get the fuck out of my forum.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Why does everyone confuse their own FanFic version of religion that is 90% deus ex machina with the religion that we're talking about?

You know Seis, you just won so much for coming up with the word I've been trying to put my finger on for some time now... Deus Ex Machina. Great word to describe things with.